oransen
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If I buy RASPBERRY PI 4 Model B - Kit 2 GB, is that all I need?

Fri Nov 15, 2019 7:59 am

I'm used to using the Arduino, where all I need was a PC to program it.

If I get this...

https://www.amazon.it/gp/product/B07TKB6PN4/

...I can start programming in Python immediately on it right? I don't need other hardware or software, right?

(The link is in Italian, but it should be clear enough from the photos...)

I'll eventually add motors and sensors, but that will come later.

TIA,

Owen

dustnbone
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Re: If I buy RASPBERRY PI 4 Model B - Kit 2 GB, is that all I need?

Fri Nov 15, 2019 8:06 am

Sure, add keyboard mouse and display and you're ready to go. I'd suggest getting a USB SSD if you're going to be doing any heavy productivity work, it will make things generally a lot more responsive. 2GB of RAM should be fine.

I have a 2GB Pi and I've never run out. My main PC has actually been broken (won't start up with a video card installed), so the Pi has been my desktop for almost a month now.

drgeoff
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Re: If I buy RASPBERRY PI 4 Model B - Kit 2 GB, is that all I need?

Fri Nov 15, 2019 8:07 am

A USB keyboard and optionally a USB mouse will also be required unless you use another computer to interact with the RPi via ssh or VNC.

oransen
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Re: If I buy RASPBERRY PI 4 Model B - Kit 2 GB, is that all I need?

Fri Nov 15, 2019 8:11 am

dustnbone wrote:
Fri Nov 15, 2019 8:06 am
Sure, add keyboard mouse and display and you're ready to go.
Ah, so the kit is NOT all I need!

If I have a Python program on the PC how do I load it onto the Pi?

oransen
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Re: If I buy RASPBERRY PI 4 Model B - Kit 2 GB, is that all I need?

Fri Nov 15, 2019 8:13 am

drgeoff wrote:
Fri Nov 15, 2019 8:07 am
A USB keyboard and optionally a USB mouse will also be required unless you use another computer to interact with the RPi via ssh or VNC.
And a monitor as well?

This is what I did not understand, I imagined a much more powerful Arduino type thing.

Presumably I can connect the PI to the PC to transfer already existing Python programs to it?

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HawaiianPi
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Re: If I buy RASPBERRY PI 4 Model B - Kit 2 GB, is that all I need?

Fri Nov 15, 2019 8:13 am

You'll also need a keyboard, mouse and monitor to use it like a "normal" computer (if you have another computer, you can control it from that, with some limitations). Oh, and Internet access to install software and updates.

Speakers would also be nice, if you want to do anything involving sound (listen to music, watch videos and youtube). Possibly a case, but not the official one, and a heatsink or cooling fan, because they run hot. Hopefully that power supply is up to the task (it doesn't look like the official one).
My mind is like a browser. 27 tabs are open, 9 aren't responding,
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fruitoftheloom
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Re: If I buy RASPBERRY PI 4 Model B - Kit 2 GB, is that all I need?

Fri Nov 15, 2019 8:24 am

oransen wrote:
Fri Nov 15, 2019 7:59 am
I'm used to using the Arduino, where all I need was a PC to program it.

If I get this...

https://www.amazon.it/gp/product/B07TKB6PN4/

...I can start programming in Python immediately on it right? I don't need other hardware or software, right?

(The link is in Italian, but it should be clear enough from the photos...)

I'll eventually add motors and sensors, but that will come later.

TIA,

Owen

Add a HDMi TV or a Monitor with either DVi or HDMi to this quality kit:

https://www.raspberrypi.org/products/ra ... sktop-kit/
Retired disgracefully.....
This at present is my daily "computer" https://www.asus.com/us/Chrome-Devices/Chromebit-CS10/

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B.Goode
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Re: If I buy RASPBERRY PI 4 Model B - Kit 2 GB, is that all I need?

Fri Nov 15, 2019 8:26 am

oransen wrote:
Fri Nov 15, 2019 8:11 am
dustnbone wrote:
Fri Nov 15, 2019 8:06 am
Sure, add keyboard mouse and display and you're ready to go.
Ah, so the kit is NOT all I need!

If I have a Python program on the PC how do I load it onto the Pi?


For a Guide from Raspberry Pi themselves, including a list of What You Will Need, see - https://projects.raspberrypi.org/en/pro ... setting-up


A Raspberry Pi board can be run in an Arduino-like mode where it executes only a single standalone program. That is not a useful option for running a python script.

But it is capable of running an Operating System such as the Raspberry Pi supported Raspbian Buster Operating System. As such it is a full-fledged multi-user timeshared general purpose computer system.

That means it can become part of your home network for data transfer, or you can use a usb mass storage device to move files around.

dustnbone
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Re: If I buy RASPBERRY PI 4 Model B - Kit 2 GB, is that all I need?

Fri Nov 15, 2019 8:40 am

oransen wrote:
Fri Nov 15, 2019 8:11 am

Ah, so the kit is NOT all I need!

If I have a Python program on the PC how do I load it onto the Pi?
Ahh ok. Well in that case, no you have all you need. You'll have to enable SSH on the Pi, but once you do that and connect it by ethernet to your network you can login to it from another computer and run whatever you like on it. You don't need a display or keyboard to make it do that. In fact that's how most of my Pis work.

LTolledo
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Re: If I buy RASPBERRY PI 4 Model B - Kit 2 GB, is that all I need?

Fri Nov 15, 2019 9:13 am

aside from the usual keyboard, mouse, monitor, case, heatsink, fan, ethernet cable (or WiFi connection to internet),

it also depends on what your proposed python code needs to do

example: if your python code need to control or get data from electronic devices, you'll need an additional bread boarding/electronics/sensor kit. :D
"Don't come to me with 'issues' for I don't know how to deal with those
Come to me with 'problems' and I'll help you find solutions"

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jahboater
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Re: If I buy RASPBERRY PI 4 Model B - Kit 2 GB, is that all I need?

Fri Nov 15, 2019 9:40 am

oransen wrote:
Fri Nov 15, 2019 8:13 am
This is what I did not understand, I imagined a much more powerful Arduino type thing.
Think of the Pi as a normal general purpose computer, like your PC. It runs a full Linux operating system.
It can be used to program an Arduino.
oransen wrote:
Fri Nov 15, 2019 8:13 am
Presumably I can connect the PI to the PC to transfer already existing Python programs to it?
Of course. The Pi is just another computer. Connect it to your router as usual, and use "ssh" to log in, or "scp" to copy Python files around. (Or Putty for Windows.)
For example, on my PC I can type:

scp hello.py [email protected]:

which will transfer the little Python program "hello.py" to the home directory for user "pi" on my Raspberry Pi (called, boringly, "pi").
If your PC runs Windows, you might need WinSCP or some such, but its just the same. There are various options, but I find the "scp" command easy because its just like the regular copy command.

There is a lightweight version of the OS (Raspbian Lite) which is useful if you never want to attach a keyboard, mouse and screen.
Last edited by jahboater on Fri Nov 15, 2019 10:40 am, edited 1 time in total.

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HawaiianPi
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Re: If I buy RASPBERRY PI 4 Model B - Kit 2 GB, is that all I need?

Fri Nov 15, 2019 10:39 am

If you want something more Arduino-like, then perhaps you should start with a $5 Pi Zero in USB-Gadget mode. You can connect it to your main PC with a USB cable and experiment with it to see if it's something you like. You'll still have a full Linux OS and GPIO to play with, but at a much lower starting price.
My mind is like a browser. 27 tabs are open, 9 aren't responding,
lots of pop-ups...and where is that annoying music coming from?

oransen
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Re: If I buy RASPBERRY PI 4 Model B - Kit 2 GB, is that all I need?

Fri Nov 15, 2019 10:49 am

HawaiianPi wrote:
Fri Nov 15, 2019 10:39 am
If you want something more Arduino-like, then perhaps you should start with a $5 Pi Zero in USB-Gadget mode. You can connect it to your main PC with a USB cable and experiment with it to see if it's something you like. You'll still have a full Linux OS and GPIO to play with, but at a much lower starting price.
Thanks for the advice, I'll look into it.

PhatFil
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Re: If I buy RASPBERRY PI 4 Model B - Kit 2 GB, is that all I need?

Fri Nov 15, 2019 2:06 pm

SSH and VNC were both mentioned earlier in this post,

Has the OP rejected the idea of using an existing pc to take remote control of the pi cli via SSH or the Desktop environment over VNC???

In both cases the Pi once on the local network can be used headless without extra keyboards mice or monitors.

So in order to run a pi you need:
1) a suitable psu,
2) a network enabled pi, ($10 pi-0-w is the minimum requirement without extra networking h/w)
3) a micro sd card,
4) and a method to read/write that micro sd card on a computer to write the system and enable ssh.
5) a networked computer to use to take remote control of your pi cli or desktop.

oransen
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Re: If I buy RASPBERRY PI 4 Model B - Kit 2 GB, is that all I need?

Fri Nov 15, 2019 2:29 pm

Thanks for the info. I understand few of the acronyms mentioned.

It seems a lot of stuff for the small embedded project I was thinking of. I need a few days to consider if I want to go down this path, I may stick to the Arduino...

PhatFil
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Re: If I buy RASPBERRY PI 4 Model B - Kit 2 GB, is that all I need?

Sat Nov 16, 2019 2:19 am

oransen wrote:
Fri Nov 15, 2019 2:29 pm
Thanks for the info. I understand few of the acronyms mentioned.

It seems a lot of stuff for the small embedded project I was thinking of. I need a few days to consider if I want to go down this path, I may stick to the Arduino...
Sorry not my intention to baffle or confuse..

SSH Secure SHell https://www.ssh.com/ssh/
Is a protocol to enable a remote login into a terminal session for access to the CLI (Command Line Interface)

VNC (Virtual Network Computing) Your Pi can host VNCServer so that you can Run VNCViewer on a networked PC and Open a remote desktop session so you can use the graphical desktop of your raspbian installation.

oransen
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Re: If I buy RASPBERRY PI 4 Model B - Kit 2 GB, is that all I need?

Sat Nov 16, 2019 8:56 am

Thanks for the explanations.

I'm coming to the conclusion though that I'd do better to port this neural network code...

https://ransenstechstuff.blogspot.com/2 ... works.html

...to the Arduino C. "Better" in the sense that I'd already understand a lot of stuff about the Arduino which would be new to me in the Pi. And the NN I'm considering would be small enough to fit in Arduino memory.

Thanks again to all for the replies.

jb63
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Re: If I buy RASPBERRY PI 4 Model B - Kit 2 GB, is that all I need?

Sat Nov 16, 2019 9:05 am

The one question/decision you need to make is first what exactly are you planning to do.

1. Both Arduino and Raspberry offer you the ability to explore programming and learn few skills

However, they are VERY different machines

2. Arduino is a programmable controller
3. PI is a computer

If you want to use multiple input/output channels, then Arduino is your best bet (plus whatever hats).

If however you need a minimum I/o devices/sensors, then RPI is suitable.

There are tasks that are much easier on one platform than the other, depending on the complexity and available support.

Ultimately, you can run your Arduino from the Raspberry PI ... from my experience though, the Arduino software was more stable on Windows.

oransen
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Re: If I buy RASPBERRY PI 4 Model B - Kit 2 GB, is that all I need?

Sat Nov 16, 2019 10:00 am

However, they are VERY different machines

2. Arduino is a programmable controller
3. PI is a computer


That is arguable. Were the computers on the Apollo missions simply controllers?

Are the computers in your car simply controllers?

I'd say almost any programmable device is a computer, especially if it runs C, which is a high level language.

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B.Goode
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Re: If I buy RASPBERRY PI 4 Model B - Kit 2 GB, is that all I need?

Sat Nov 16, 2019 10:20 am

oransen wrote:
Sat Nov 16, 2019 10:00 am
However, they are VERY different machines

2. Arduino is a programmable controller
3. PI is a computer


That is arguable. Were the computers on the Apollo missions simply controllers?

Are the computers in your car simply controllers?

I'd say almost any programmable device is a computer, especially if it runs C, which is a high level language.
I thought you had asked a genuine question about how to make use of your potential purchase of an RPi4b board, and tried to provide factual guidance.

I you want a discussion about the semantics of the word computer you have come to the right place and will find plenty of willing debaters, but I won't be taking part.

oransen
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Re: If I buy RASPBERRY PI 4 Model B - Kit 2 GB, is that all I need?

Sat Nov 16, 2019 10:30 am

In fact I'm going to port the Neural Network to the Arduino, I was just contesting your statement that the Arduino is not a computer.

Not important though!

jb63
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Re: If I buy RASPBERRY PI 4 Model B - Kit 2 GB, is that all I need?

Sat Nov 16, 2019 2:26 pm

Contest all you want ... this technology is replete with things that people have different names for ... and I’m not talking about Canadian vs. South African English ... It helps a bit if we are all consistent with the terminology.

That said, and Semantics aside, you still have to DECIDE what exactly you need to do with the device, then buy the right one.

With the Arduino:
1. You write your c-like program in a computer (eg windows)
2. You compile/download such program to the Arduino
3. You disconnect the Arduino from the computer
4. You use the Arduino (with a power supply) to do whatever tasks you programmed it for e.g., sound an alarm every time you flush the toilet.
5. You CANNOT change what the Arduino does unless you connect it to a computer (eg windows) and start over at step 1

With the RPI:
6. Think of it as a Windows/Linux device with a slightly different interface
7. You can do a million different things, depending what you type on the keyboard, what you do with the mouse, and what software packages are installed
8. You do not need to write code and reflash it if you want to play a different Patricia Kaas song from YouTube, after a connected sensor detects that someone flushed the same toilet.

You still want to discuss semantics???
Last edited by jb63 on Sat Nov 16, 2019 6:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

oransen
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Re: If I buy RASPBERRY PI 4 Model B - Kit 2 GB, is that all I need?

Sat Nov 16, 2019 3:06 pm

I understood all that you have said about 6 posts ago, from what other people explained. I've done many projects with the Arduino, I know how to use it.

Why are you going on and on about semantics????

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B.Goode
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Re: If I buy RASPBERRY PI 4 Model B - Kit 2 GB, is that all I need?

Sat Nov 16, 2019 3:12 pm

Q:
oransen wrote:
Sat Nov 16, 2019 3:06 pm
I understood all that you have said about 6 posts ago, from what other people explained. I've done many projects with the Arduino, I know how to use it.

Why are you going on and on about semantics????


A:
oransen wrote:
Sat Nov 16, 2019 10:00 am
Were the computers on the Apollo missions simply controllers?

Are the computers in your car simply controllers?

I'd say almost any programmable device is a computer, especially if it runs C, which is a high level language.

oransen
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Re: If I buy RASPBERRY PI 4 Model B - Kit 2 GB, is that all I need?

Sat Nov 16, 2019 4:48 pm

Yes, I go gah gah and off topic now and then, my apologies...

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