Leeloo
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should I get a pi 4 or ?

Sat Jun 29, 2019 4:29 pm

Hi,
Im considering getting a pi4 but the extra ram, the form factor changes, the new tiny flimsy connectors mean I will have a shell out for a lot of extra bits that all add up to this pi upgrade costing maybe around £80

for that price I can get a brand new all inclusive quad core atom tiny pc with ram/emmc power supply that uses standard hdmi cables (of which I have loads laying around)

but even more interestingly (for me) I can pickup a second hand tiny form factory pc for £40 that comes with modular 4gb ram, a 300gb sata hdd, a solid metal case, but is running a meh 2nd/3rd generation dual core intel cpu but on a regular socket that can easily be upgraded to an i3/i5 (t) for around £10 extra!

so wondering

1/can't the pi4 at least run of the 2.5a psu? surely some of that required 3a rating has to be overhead for the usb ports which I don't really plan to use outside a combined low power wireless kbd/m dongle.

2/hows the pi4 performance stand up to either 2nd/3rd gen i3 or fairly recent quad atoms ? because if it isn't even close then it seems like the decision maybe a no-brainer ;)

Thanks :D

W. H. Heydt
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Re: should I get a pi 4 or ?

Sat Jun 29, 2019 4:35 pm

Leeloo wrote:
Sat Jun 29, 2019 4:29 pm
1/can't the pi4 at least run of the 2.5a psu? surely some of that required 3a rating has to be overhead for the usb ports which I don't really plan to use outside a combined low power wireless kbd/m dongle.
The Pi4B, like its predecessors, (assuming full rated PSU) allocates 1.2A to USB. So, yes, without a lot of power hungry USB devices, a Pi4B should run quite happily on a *good* (e.g. the official RPF) 2.5A PSU. Indeed, the RPT is confident enough of that that they have arranged for the sale of an inexpensive ($0.99) USB microB to USB-C adapter for the purpose.

And those numbers would mean that a Pi4B with no USB devices should run just fine on a good 2A supply!

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B.Goode
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Re: should I get a pi 4 or ?

Sat Jun 29, 2019 4:53 pm

If you can get the performance you need from that 2nd hand Intel kit why not use it and pocket the difference?

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HawaiianPi
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Re: should I get a pi 4 or ?

Sat Jun 29, 2019 5:10 pm

Leeloo wrote:
Sat Jun 29, 2019 4:29 pm
... the new tiny flimsy connectors.
Tired of hearing this nonsense. Where's your evidence that the new connectors are flimsy? FYI, micro HDMI is nothing new, it's been around and in common use on Ultrabooks and tablets for 5 or 6 years. Never had a problem with it on multiple devices. In my experience it is a robust and reliable connector.

  1. If you had read the announcement blog you would have seen that the Pi4 can be used with the older Pi3 2.5A power supply, with the understanding that you may not be able to use power hungry USB devices, and you'll need an inexpensive adapter.
  2. Don't know, I don't have mine yet. There is a recent thread of Octane 2.0 benchmarks that might help, if you can find results from the other hardware you are interested in.
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Leeloo
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Re: should I get a pi 4 or ?

Sat Jun 29, 2019 5:32 pm

@W. H. Heydt! 0.99 would be cheaper than getting a whole new power supple thanks! makes the pi offering look a little more attractive!

@B.Goode yeah that is what I was asking, I have no idea on where abouts the intel stuff would perform but suspect if I upgraded to the i5 even being almost a decade old might out do the pi current offerings (though at a higher power consumption)
Tired of hearing this nonsense. Where's your evidence that the new connectors are flimsy?
my goto argument would be the Nintendo switch with its many broken usb-c connectors, most of the time when you see a broken switch its due to the usb-c connector being maimed! and looking on ebay the first listing for the usb-c switch solder on socket from a single seller had sold 28.

also the youtube channel explaining computers which is genuinely quite knowledgeable about single board computer stuff calls usb-c "too tiny to be used properly over a long period of time" ... "there is a size at which you cannot make a really robust really reliable connector"

edit https://youtu.be/_KzjeHdazNI?t=99 makes me wonder if he will mention it on one of the pi4 reviews

I know this is mostly focused on usb-c but those mini hdmi sockets are as small when there is room for 2 full sized sockets stacking on top of each other!

1/I did see the announcement but brushed over and miss have missed it sorry T_T still really wished they had kept the old usb plug or gone to the slightly bigger usb mini b,

alphanumeric
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Re: should I get a pi 4 or ?

Sat Jun 29, 2019 7:39 pm

IMHO, the first question you need to answer is "what am I going to do with said device?".
Almost every one of my Pi's has a Hat or pHat or some other breakout board connected to the GPIO.
For me, a Pi 4 is a good upgrade to my Pi 3B's and worth the cost of what ever extra bits I need to make it work.
If all your ever going to use it for is a desktop PC etc, then it "may" not be what you want. I say "may not" as this Pi may actually have the performance to fill that role. I don't have mine yet, just going by what's been posted on the web.

LTolledo
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Re: should I get a pi 4 or ?

Sat Jun 29, 2019 8:29 pm

If you have a genuine need for it then get it.....

..if none then don't. (....unless it is a mandatory requirement under you country's local legislation that carries stiff penalties....)

...nobody is forcing anybody....
"Don't come to me with 'issues' for I don't know how to deal with those
Come to me with 'problems' and I'll help you find solutions"

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ensis12
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Re: should I get a pi 4 or ?

Sat Jun 29, 2019 9:26 pm

hey,

just piggybacking on this thread to ask the same question. I already have a pi 3 with which i played around a bit. However, i ran - as many users - into the unfortunate circumstance, that vp9 hardware decoding is not supported on the pi 3 in any way and watching youtube/twitch on higher qualities/framerates is pretty much impossible (there are many remedies and smaller fixes/plugins, etc. which i tried, but going beyond 1080p 30fps was pretty much not possible for my pi 3). Now i have read diverging statements about the state of the pi 4b regarding this matter. So my straightforward question is: Will I be able to stream high quality content (4k/30, FHD/60) from youtube, netflix, twitch, amazon prime, etc. reliably for the foreseeable future with the pi 4?

regards, David

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Imperf3kt
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Re: should I get a pi 4 or ?

Sun Jun 30, 2019 3:09 am

"USB-C too tiny"?
Well that's a laugh. I watch Explaining Computers on YouTube sometimes but I've never heard him say that.
If he did, I have something to say back: you do realise, MICRO USB-B IS EVEN SMALLER!
55:55:44:44:4C
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douglasby
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Re: should I get a pi 4 or ?

Sun Jun 30, 2019 6:02 am

HawaiianPi wrote:
Sat Jun 29, 2019 5:10 pm
an inexpensive adapter.
What are the inexpensive adapters need for, please?

Thanks

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B.Goode
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Re: should I get a pi 4 or ?

Sun Jun 30, 2019 6:24 am

douglasby wrote:
Sun Jun 30, 2019 6:02 am
HawaiianPi wrote:
Sat Jun 29, 2019 5:10 pm
an inexpensive adapter.
What are the inexpensive adapters need for, please?

Thanks


From the hardware announcement blog post:
If you’d like to re-use a Raspberry Pi 3 Official Power Supply, our resellers are offering a $1 adapter which converts from USB micro-B to USB-C. The thick wires and good load-step response of the old official supply make this a surprisingly competitive solution if you don’t need a full 3 amps.
Ref: https://www.raspberrypi.org/blog/raspbe ... w-from-35/

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Gavinmc42
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Re: should I get a pi 4 or ?

Sun Jun 30, 2019 6:26 am

Cost me $2.80 AUD for a microUSB to USB-C adaptor.
I just went and got my third one, they are tiny, but I use loose change to buy them from Daiso.
Also got a microHDMI adaptor for $2.80, yep I am sparing no expense to upgrade to Pi4 :lol:

This morning I was watching YouTube videos of this new HU Band on a Pi41, worked fine windowed and fullscreen on a 1280x1024 monitor.
FHD and 4K users might complain but I don't use those size screens.
All running on the old 2.5Amp Pi supply and temp only got to 62C.

Pi4's for me are learning coding, not watching videos, that I now can watch YT's is bonus.
I will be able to watch coding videos on one screen while coding on the other :P
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alphanumeric
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Re: should I get a pi 4 or ?

Sun Jun 30, 2019 8:30 am

Being able to clip and past from the "how to" on one screen to your "whatever it is" code on the other is a big plus IMHO. In the past I would have the instructional how to open on my laptop and be typing in what was there on my Pi. Hoping I don't make a typo. Or having to SSH into the Pi to clip and past.
If you can I would buy the official Pi foundation Micro HDMI to HDMI cables. It's going to get cramped trying to plug two HDMI adapters in side by side. One should be OK though. Might be tight if your also using a Micro USB to USB C adapter though. Use HDMI1 I guess if its to tight a fit.

k-pi
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Re: should I get a pi 4 or ?

Sun Jun 30, 2019 9:58 am

Two options - old kit, Intel/AMD, probably noisy & uses more power - new kit, RPi4B, smaller, quiet & low power. 8-)

Yes, you will need extra equipment, cables, PSU, case, etc, but in the long run, I think it will be worth it. ;)

I have already several old laptops & netbooks, which I still use regularly, but I'm hoping that the RPi4B/4GB will become a suitable quiet replacement for them, when the time comes. :)

(I already have 3 small HDMI TFT monitors that I use with my RPi3's & my quiet SOC Intel micro desktop computer).

boyoh
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Re: should I get a pi 4 or ?

Sun Jun 30, 2019 10:16 am

The RaspberryPi was designed to learn programming and electronics, It is not
A high out put power house that is why
The connecters are not heavy duty, So
Using buffer stages as voltage and current
Amplifiers, switched by low power signals
From the Pi I would suggest is the way to
Interface. My tip is master your first Pi
Before up grading to the next Pi. If you
Us the Pi within it out put loading you will
Not need fans and extra heat sinks, Just use
Common sense and Ohms Law

Regards BoyOh
Retired Electrical / Electronic Technician
BoyOh ( Selby, North Yorkshire.UK)
Some Times Right Some Times Wrong

jamesh
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Re: should I get a pi 4 or ?

Sun Jun 30, 2019 10:34 am

Just a comment on the connectors. I've have had no problems at all with them. USB-C is in and out all the time, the microHDMI was in and out the whole time when working on the multi HDMI support. Not had any failures.

So can I suggest that those people saying they are unreliable or not suitable, refrain from commenting until they have been out in the wild for a while.
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Leeloo
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Joined: Fri Oct 06, 2017 9:53 pm

Re: should I get a pi 4 or ?

Sun Jun 30, 2019 2:11 pm

Imperf3kt wrote:
Sun Jun 30, 2019 3:09 am
"USB-C too tiny"?
Well that's a laugh. I watch Explaining Computers on YouTube sometimes but I've never heard him say that.
If he did, I have something to say back: you do realise, MICRO USB-B IS EVEN SMALLER!
I edited in the explaining computers link shortly after posting, though feel I should state this isn't proof of anything regarding usb-c just an opinion.

re:micro b, might be smaller overall but its internal contacts are larger and more spaced (because there are 19 less of them) and its surrounding enclosure generally has a lot more support plastic. to quote the doctor "it's bigger on the inside" :D or at least give me harder ?

@Gavinmc42 Im glad it worked out for you, watching tutorial videos on youtube while coding on the same device seems a great use! exactly somewhat like I was hoping

@k-pi perfect! yes! that is the best selling point of the PI for sure! completely silent and with the planet not getting and colder maybe a device that isn't flooding my room with heat!! maybe a better choice :D
If you have a genuine need for it then get it.
I saw the Pi4 had come out, I don't really 'need' it but I did have budget for an upgrade of sorts and while looking decided to explore options too

I might just wait a little bit to see how the new pi goes (and till the 4gb version comes back in stock lol)

thanks to all who have given feedback. :)

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