hunterjwizard
Posts: 38
Joined: Thu Jun 23, 2016 4:33 pm

Pi Zero not booting

Tue May 21, 2019 3:04 pm

Hi folks,

I am trying to work with my first raspberry pi zero, and am not having much success. I have checked out the information on this helpful sticky viewtopic.php?f=28&t=58151 and the zero passes the tests outlined in the third post. The boot card I am using comes up just fine when placed in a pi 3, but aside from when it's plugged in to a PC with no card, the zero shows, well, zero signs of life.

I am attempting to use the device with this 5" touch screen https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07L9 ... UTF8&psc=1 using the pre-configured version of Rasbian on their site, which states that it works with pi zero.

I'm not really sure where to go next. Most of the information on the troubleshooting guide is either for "noobs" OS or the full Pis(which actually have LED indicators to go on). Hopefully I can get this figured out before I hit the end of the return window; at the moment I cant seem to make the zero do anything other than register as a USB device.

B.Goode
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Location: UK

Re: Pi Zero not booting

Tue May 21, 2019 3:19 pm

hunterjwizard wrote:
Tue May 21, 2019 3:04 pm
Hi folks,

I am trying to work with my first raspberry pi zero, and am not having much success. I have checked out the information on this helpful sticky viewtopic.php?f=28&t=58151 and the zero passes the tests outlined in the third post. The boot card I am using comes up just fine when placed in a pi 3, but aside from when it's plugged in to a PC with no card, the zero shows, well, zero signs of life.

I am attempting to use the device with this 5" touch screen https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07L9 ... UTF8&psc=1 using the pre-configured version of Rasbian on their site, which states that it works with pi zero.

I'm not really sure where to go next. Most of the information on the troubleshooting guide is either for "noobs" OS or the full Pis(which actually have LED indicators to go on). Hopefully I can get this figured out before I hit the end of the return window; at the moment I cant seem to make the zero do anything other than register as a USB device.

One approach... there are undoubtedly others...

Even though it is not what you ultimately want to do, beg or borrow an HDMI display and a usb keyboard.

'Flash' a copy of the genuine Raspberry Pi Foundation Raspbian Stretch Operating System from https://www.raspberrypi.org/downloads/raspbian/ to a microSD card. The Lite version will do for this test.

Check that your RPiZero boots in that configuration. If it does, the Raspberry Pi hardware is fine and your suspicion can move to the non-standard, modified, pre-configured version of Rasbian on the site of the screen supplier.

If your RPiZero will not boot from the Raspberry Pi Foundation supported Operating System then you may indeed have a suspect RPi board.


A thought for the future: if you need a tailored OS from the vendor to support your choice of screen, does that mean you are 'locked in' to that release alone, and prevented from taking advantage of new versions of Raspbian, security patches, etc? That's not a position I would want to be in.

hunterjwizard
Posts: 38
Joined: Thu Jun 23, 2016 4:33 pm

Re: Pi Zero not booting

Tue May 21, 2019 4:00 pm

B.Goode wrote:
Tue May 21, 2019 3:19 pm
One approach... there are undoubtedly others...

Even though it is not what you ultimately want to do, beg or borrow an HDMI display and a usb keyboard.

'Flash' a copy of the genuine Raspberry Pi Foundation Raspbian Stretch Operating System from https://www.raspberrypi.org/downloads/raspbian/ to a microSD card. The Lite version will do for this test.

Check that your RPiZero boots in that configuration. If it does, the Raspberry Pi hardware is fine and your suspicion can move to the non-standard, modified, pre-configured version of Rasbian on the site of the screen supplier.

If your RPiZero will not boot from the Raspberry Pi Foundation supported Operating System then you may indeed have a suspect RPi board.
Just tried this. I fortunately have all sorts of equipment lying around, only thing I am short on is spare SD cards(so the card I have is getting a workout). Just as before, no signs of life on the zero(except a slight warming of the chip), but in the pi 3 it popped up right away. It did take about 20 minutes, so I wonder now if the whole problem is I've just been impatient. Going to try the card back in the zero shortly.
B.Goode wrote:
Tue May 21, 2019 3:19 pm
A thought for the future: if you need a tailored OS from the vendor to support your choice of screen, does that mean you are 'locked in' to that release alone, and prevented from taking advantage of new versions of Raspbian, security patches, etc? That's not a position I would want to be in.
I should admit at this point that I am very much new to all of this and not very good at it. I'm most certainly a "windows weenie", if you will, and utterly lost in linux. I'm venturing in to pis because building small computers is something I've wanted to do since I was a kid. At the moment I am focused on the hardware aspect, designing cases and integrating peripherals(as this is the part that really interests me). The plan so far is to learn the software later, cut my teeth on the thing I actually want to do, then learn the skills as I need them.

Surprise, I need this one, lol.

dl324
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Location: Pacific Northwest, USA

Re: Pi Zero not booting

Tue May 21, 2019 4:20 pm

hunterjwizard wrote:
Tue May 21, 2019 3:04 pm
but aside from when it's plugged in to a PC with no card, the zero shows, well, zero signs of life.
When you plug it in to a Windows computer, you should get a notification that an unknown device was connected. In Device Manager, it will show up as BCM2708 Boot (under Other devices).

That would tell you that there's some life because the USB connects directly to the microcontroller.

On subsequent connects, Windows won't give an audible notification, but you can see the device in Device Manager.

hunterjwizard
Posts: 38
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Re: Pi Zero not booting

Tue May 21, 2019 4:25 pm

dl324 wrote:
Tue May 21, 2019 4:20 pm
hunterjwizard wrote:
Tue May 21, 2019 3:04 pm
but aside from when it's plugged in to a PC with no card, the zero shows, well, zero signs of life.
When you plug it in to a Windows computer, you should get a notification that an unknown device was connected. In Device Manager, it will show up as BCM2708 Boot (under Other devices).

That would tell you that there's some life because the USB connects directly to the microcontroller.

On subsequent connects, Windows won't give an audible notification, but you can see the device in Device Manager.
Did that. It shows up fine in device manager.

So I flashed a new card as recomended, again pi3 boots fine on desktop monitor. Same card, cables, and power source on the zero have still shown nothing after ~30 minutes.

I had started the return process after initially concluding my zero was faulty(turns out I was using the wrong port for power) and both behave the same. It seems unlikely I actually have 2 defective devices, so I am stumped.

dl324
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Location: Pacific Northwest, USA

Re: Pi Zero not booting

Tue May 21, 2019 4:30 pm

hunterjwizard wrote:
Tue May 21, 2019 4:25 pm
So I flashed a new card as recomended, again pi3 boots fine on desktop monitor. Same card, cables, and power source on the zero have still shown nothing after ~30 minutes.
I don't think you can swap the SD cards willy nilly. I tried putting the card from a Pi Zero W in to a Pi Zero and it wouldn't boot. Putting the card in another Zero W worked and it was assigned a new IP address.

What image are you flashing? I had a poor experience with NOOBS and composite video. After wasting the better part of a day trying to get NOOBS to switch to NTSC video, I just imaged Raspian Desktop and never looked back.

hunterjwizard
Posts: 38
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Re: Pi Zero not booting

Tue May 21, 2019 4:54 pm

I am using Rasbian. The number of times NOOBS is mentioned in the troubleshooting guide had me scared.

One of the tests it mentioned was trying the card in a regular pi, hence why I've been doing that.

I should probably also mention it is a Pi Zero W, I hadn't actually realized that was any different from the regular zero.

B.Goode
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Re: Pi Zero not booting

Tue May 21, 2019 5:30 pm

If a micro SD card created from the current Raspbian Stretch download direct from the Raspberry Pi Foundation will boot to an HDMI display in some other RPi board but not an RPiZero then I would conclude that either the RPiZero board or the HDMI adapter are faulty.

It may not be safe to draw the same conclusion if the Operating System image has been obtained from a third-party, which is what I understood your initial post to say.

hunterjwizard
Posts: 38
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Re: Pi Zero not booting

Tue May 21, 2019 5:54 pm

B.Goode wrote:
Tue May 21, 2019 5:30 pm
If a micro SD card created from the current Raspbian Stretch download direct from the Raspberry Pi Foundation will boot to an HDMI display in some other RPi board but not an RPiZero then I would conclude that either the RPiZero board or the HDMI adapter are faulty.

It may not be safe to draw the same conclusion if the Operating System image has been obtained from a third-party, which is what I understood your initial post to say.
I am now trying toe Rasbian Stretch downloaded directly from Raspberry Pi Foundation. It boots to a basic HDMI display I use regularly when in my raspberry pi 3.

However, I have 2 separate pi zero Ws now, and neither of them will boot with that card. What is the likelihood that I somehow received 2 failed zeros?

dl324
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Location: Pacific Northwest, USA

Re: Pi Zero not booting

Tue May 21, 2019 6:22 pm

dl324 wrote:
Tue May 21, 2019 4:30 pm
I don't think you can swap the SD cards willy nilly. I tried putting the card from a Pi Zero W in to a Pi Zero and it wouldn't boot. Putting the card in another Zero W worked and it was assigned a new IP address.
I have to take that back. I just tried putting the card from my Pi Zero W in a Pi Zero and it booted.

Still not sure if it'll work between Pi's with different microcontrollers. Zero and Zero W both use the same chip.

drgeoff
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Re: Pi Zero not booting

Tue May 21, 2019 6:24 pm

Does the LED on the ZeroW flash at any time after you apply power with micro-SD card inserted?

drgeoff
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Re: Pi Zero not booting

Tue May 21, 2019 6:26 pm

drgeoff wrote:
Tue May 21, 2019 6:24 pm
Does the LED on the ZeroW flash at any time after you apply power with micro-SD card containing Raspbian inserted?

B.Goode
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Location: UK

Re: Pi Zero not booting

Tue May 21, 2019 7:04 pm

hunterjwizard wrote:
Tue May 21, 2019 5:54 pm
B.Goode wrote:
Tue May 21, 2019 5:30 pm
If a micro SD card created from the current Raspbian Stretch download direct from the Raspberry Pi Foundation will boot to an HDMI display in some other RPi board but not an RPiZero then I would conclude that either the RPiZero board or the HDMI adapter are faulty.

It may not be safe to draw the same conclusion if the Operating System image has been obtained from a third-party, which is what I understood your initial post to say.
I am now trying toe Rasbian Stretch downloaded directly from Raspberry Pi Foundation. It boots to a basic HDMI display I use regularly when in my raspberry pi 3.

However, I have 2 separate pi zero Ws now, and neither of them will boot with that card. What is the likelihood that I somehow received 2 failed zeros?


How do you know the RPiZero boards will not boot from that 'good' microSD card?

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rpdom
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Re: Pi Zero not booting

Tue May 21, 2019 7:13 pm

dl324 wrote:
Tue May 21, 2019 6:22 pm
I have to take that back. I just tried putting the card from my Pi Zero W in a Pi Zero and it booted.

Still not sure if it'll work between Pi's with different microcontrollers. Zero and Zero W both use the same chip.
If the card is loaded with a current version of Raspbian it will work in any model of Pi released so far. There are a few differences between the machines, but the bootloader will load the appropriate kernel for the hardware and all the required drivers are included.

By the way, the Pi doesn't have a microcontroller, it has a full blown microprocessor (4 of them in the 2 and 3 models) and a load more, all in the one chip.
Signature is on holiday.

hunterjwizard
Posts: 38
Joined: Thu Jun 23, 2016 4:33 pm

Re: Pi Zero not booting

Tue May 21, 2019 7:31 pm

drgeoff wrote:
Tue May 21, 2019 6:24 pm
Does the LED on the ZeroW flash at any time after you apply power with micro-SD card inserted?
Nope.
B.Goode wrote:
Tue May 21, 2019 7:04 pm
How do you know the RPiZero boards will not boot from that 'good' microSD card?
Well, I suppose I technically don't. But I left each plugged in for 30-60 minutes and the monitor behaved as though nothing was plugged in. The boards showed no LEDs to indicate anything was happening. I am testing with a 24" standard PC monitor using an HDMI-to-DVI adapter on the monitor's DVI port. This displays video from the Pi3 without issue and the computer I typically have it hooked up to(which only has HDMI).

hunterjwizard
Posts: 38
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Re: Pi Zero not booting

Tue May 21, 2019 7:41 pm

In case there is some confusion: I presently have 3 pis here. One pi3 that is working fine, and two PiZeroWs that are identicle and brand new. I am using 1 microSD card currently formatted with the latest Rasbian downloaded directly from the main site. This boots fine on the Pi3 but I get no video output or LEDs on either PiZeroW.

dl324
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Re: Pi Zero not booting

Tue May 21, 2019 7:48 pm

rpdom wrote:
Tue May 21, 2019 7:13 pm
By the way, the Pi doesn't have a microcontroller, it has a full blown microprocessor (4 of them in the 2 and 3 models) and a load more, all in the one chip.
The definitions of microcontroller, microprocessor, and SoC are fuzzy at best.

I wouldn't put a "full blown" ARM "microprocessor" in any computer I wanted to use for serious computing...

BTW, a traditional "microprocessor" doesn't typically have GPIO.

hunterjwizard
Posts: 38
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Re: Pi Zero not booting

Tue May 21, 2019 7:49 pm

dl324 wrote:
Tue May 21, 2019 7:48 pm
rpdom wrote:
Tue May 21, 2019 7:13 pm
By the way, the Pi doesn't have a microcontroller, it has a full blown microprocessor (4 of them in the 2 and 3 models) and a load more, all in the one chip.
The definitions of microcontroller, microprocessor, and SoC are fuzzy at best.

I wouldn't put a "full blown" ARM "microprocessor" in any computer I wanted to use for serious computing...

BTW, a traditional "microprocessor" doesn't typically have GPIO.
This is getting somewhat offtopic, though. I just want my PiZeroW to work...

dl324
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Location: Pacific Northwest, USA

Re: Pi Zero not booting

Tue May 21, 2019 7:52 pm

hunterjwizard wrote:
Tue May 21, 2019 7:49 pm
This is getting somewhat offtopic, though. I just want my PiZeroW to work...
When you're trying to boot, do you have a monitor attached? If you do, you should see the color splash screen very quickly after applying power.

I'm using a Class4 microSD card and it takes about 90 seconds to get to a usable state, but the splash screen comes up very quickly.

hunterjwizard
Posts: 38
Joined: Thu Jun 23, 2016 4:33 pm

Re: Pi Zero not booting

Tue May 21, 2019 8:12 pm

dl324 wrote:
Tue May 21, 2019 7:52 pm
hunterjwizard wrote:
Tue May 21, 2019 7:49 pm
This is getting somewhat offtopic, though. I just want my PiZeroW to work...
When you're trying to boot, do you have a monitor attached? If you do, you should see the color splash screen very quickly after applying power.

I'm using a Class4 microSD card and it takes about 90 seconds to get to a usable state, but the splash screen comes up very quickly.
I do not. On the zeroWs I see nothing, the monitor behaves as though nothing is plugged in. Contrast to the Pi3, which almost immediately shows a splash screen/boot environment and then comes up fairly quickly for operation. I've left them plugged in for 30-60 minutes and seen nothing,

B.Goode
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Re: Pi Zero not booting

Tue May 21, 2019 8:50 pm

hunterjwizard wrote:
Tue May 21, 2019 8:12 pm

On the zeroWs I see nothing, the monitor behaves as though nothing is plugged in. Contrast to the Pi3, which almost immediately shows a splash screen/boot environment and then comes up fairly quickly for operation. I've left them plugged in for 30-60 minutes and seen nothing,

An RPi Zero board does not have an HDMI display connector.

Is it possible that the little adapter you have to use to convert the cable is itself faulty? That would explain the monitor behaving as if nothing is plugged in...


No new insights, only what I said 3 hours ago...
If a micro SD card created from the current Raspbian Stretch download direct from the Raspberry Pi Foundation will boot to an HDMI display in some other RPi board but not an RPiZero then I would conclude that either the RPiZero board or the HDMI adapter are faulty.

hunterjwizard
Posts: 38
Joined: Thu Jun 23, 2016 4:33 pm

Re: Pi Zero not booting

Tue May 21, 2019 9:07 pm

Its a PiZeroW, it has something on it that's labeled HDMI and fits the specifications for a Micro HDMI port. I have tried 3 different micro HDMI to HDMI adapters over the course of this product, and just did a test using another monitor. I also tried re-flashing the card using a different software, behavior is unchanged.

I suppose the next thing I can try is to hard-set the input on a screen; the monitor I've been using does like to try to be too smart and auto-detect, but I have some other screens that just let me select inputs.

Am not disputing that either RPiZero board or the HDMI adapter may be faulty, but it does seem highly unusual that 2 seperate pis would be faulty this way.

LTolledo
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Re: Pi Zero not booting

Tue May 21, 2019 9:36 pm

On your "failing" RPiZ, have you tried powering it with a different PSU ( or microUSB cable)?
or powering it via the GPIO pins (+5v on pin2 and and GND on pin6)

I've found out on one of my RPiZ, it will not power on using a specific cable (that cable works with RPi1B+ though).
"Don't come to me with 'issues' for I don't know how to deal with those
Come to me with 'problems' and I'll help you find solutions"

Some people be like:
"Help me! Am drowning! But dont you dare touch me nor come near me!"

hunterjwizard
Posts: 38
Joined: Thu Jun 23, 2016 4:33 pm

Re: Pi Zero not booting

Tue May 21, 2019 9:55 pm

I have tried multiple cables and most recently been using the supplied power adapter. Have not tried GPIO yet, is there somewhere I can get some guidance on that? I'd actually really like to learn how to do this as many applications I have in mind would be easier that way.

I have most recently continued testing by using a monitor with a hard-set input(E.G. I have selected "HDMI" from the list instead of letting the screen auto-detect). Just as before both pi zero Ws show no signs of life and provide no output at all on the screen; but the same boot card on the Pi3 pops up right away.

LTolledo
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Re: Pi Zero not booting

Tue May 21, 2019 10:02 pm

On powering those "failing" RPiZW , at any point in time (within 1 minute of applying power) the green LED does not light up, is that correct?
"Don't come to me with 'issues' for I don't know how to deal with those
Come to me with 'problems' and I'll help you find solutions"

Some people be like:
"Help me! Am drowning! But dont you dare touch me nor come near me!"

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