RobLewis
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What are these 2 Ethernet devices on my LAN?

Tue Jan 01, 2019 1:03 am

Just got my first Pi, a 3B+. It connects to my Wi-Fi and works, but I want to use wired Ethernet. I plugged in a cable, and my Mac's WiFi Scanner program now reports two devices on the LAN with different MAC addresses and Raspberry Pi Foundation as manufacturer:

"Network Router" at 10.0.0.1, and (no name) at 10.0.0.18, which appears to be the Wi-Fi connection. I presume 10.0.0.1 is the wired Ethernet port, but what is the business with "network router"? My actual router is at 10.0.0.250 and has DHCP enabled.

How can I disable the Pi's Wi-Fi and make it use the wired Ethernet? Google hasn't provided any answers.

W. H. Heydt
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Re: What are these 2 Ethernet devices on my LAN?

Tue Jan 01, 2019 1:13 am

Generally, your router should get the lowest non-zero address in the local block. In your case, that would be 10.0.0.1. If you look at the network configuration on any device on your LAN, it should show a "Gateway address". That will be the LAN address of the router.

In any IPv4 block, there will be three reserved addresses. One of these is the gateway. Another is broadcast, which will be the highest available value, typically an ending octet of 255 in a /24 block. Since 10.x.x.x is a class A block (and available for private use on LANs), if you're using the full /8 block, the broadcast address would be 10.255.255.255. If you're only using it as /24 block (only the last 8 bits are being used for LAN IP addresses), the the broadcast IP would be 10.0.0.255.

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Re: What are these 2 Ethernet devices on my LAN?

Tue Jan 01, 2019 2:06 am

RobLewis wrote:
Tue Jan 01, 2019 1:03 am
Just got my first Pi, a 3B+. It connects to my Wi-Fi and works, but I want to use wired Ethernet. I plugged in a cable, and my Mac's WiFi Scanner program now reports two devices on the LAN with different MAC addresses and Raspberry Pi Foundation as manufacturer:

"Network Router" at 10.0.0.1, and (no name) at 10.0.0.18, which appears to be the Wi-Fi connection. I presume 10.0.0.1 is the wired Ethernet port, but what is the business with "network router"? My actual router is at 10.0.0.250 and has DHCP enabled.

How can I disable the Pi's Wi-Fi and make it use the wired Ethernet? Google hasn't provided any answers.
Each network interface has it's own unique MAC address. So what you see on the router is normal and nothing to be concerned about. You can use one or the other or both at the same time no problem.
If you want to turn off WIFI then LEFT click on the network icon in the menu bar and select [Turn Off WI-FI]
Unless specified otherwise my response is based on the latest and fully updated RPiOS Buster w/ Desktop OS.

RobLewis
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Re: What are these 2 Ethernet devices on my LAN?

Tue Jan 01, 2019 9:34 pm

OK, I'm not sure I'm making myself understood.

Since long before getting the Pi, I have had my WAN interface and LAN router/DHCP server on 10.0.0.250, where it remains. I also operate a DNS server (MacOS Server) for my local devices on 10.0.0.252.

My client devices use a mix of standard DHCP-assigned random addresses, static (fixed) IPv4 addresses, and predefined addresses that are served by the DHCP server to certain clients.

It has all worked mostly fine for years.

I guess my main issues with the Pi, after some experimentation, are: why is the 10.0.0.1 address named "Network Router"? I can connect to it with SSH, but I don't want it to do any routing. And how did it acquire that 10.0.0.1 address? How do I change it?

Is there a way to save and load different network configurations?

W. H. Heydt
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Re: What are these 2 Ethernet devices on my LAN?

Tue Jan 01, 2019 10:06 pm

RobLewis wrote:
Tue Jan 01, 2019 9:34 pm
I guess my main issues with the Pi, after some experimentation, are: why is the 10.0.0.1 address named "Network Router"? I can connect to it with SSH, but I don't want it to do any routing. And how did it acquire that 10.0.0.1 address? How do I change it?
It has that address as the router (aka gateway) because that *is* the address of your router. That's the standard way IPV4 blocks are set up. The 0, 254, and 255 addresses are reserved. The uplink on the LAN side is 1. don't confuse any of that with the WAN side, where the router has a publicly routable address and has an uplink address, which is the address of the ISP router you're connected to.

Every time you use a URL, check with a time server, or do anything else outside your LAN, packets have to routed...and that's the job of your router. It takes packets that are addressed off your LAN and sends them to the "other" network it is connected to, in this case, the internet. That is the whole purpose of routers...to move packets from one attached network to another and it is smart enough to only forward the packets that don't have a destination on the same network they came from. This is distinguished from a bridge, which echoes all packets on one network to the other network. The relationship between bridges and routers is analogous to the relationship between (Ethernet) hubs and switches.

Granted, most people these days never see--or aren't aware if they do--either bridges or hubs. *Occasionally* someone will need to have a router set to be a bridge (that's called "bridging a router"), but unless you have an ISP supplied router and your own router behind it, you don't need to do that.

From any device on your LAN, ping 10.0.0.1. You'll get a response from your router. If you do a traceroute to an outside address (say, 8.8.8.8), the first hop will be to 10.0.0.1--your router. The second hop will be your ISPs router that your line connects to.

Example:

Code: Select all

traceroute to 8.8.8.8 (8.8.8.8), 30 hops max, 60 byte packets
 1  192.168.1.1 (192.168.1.1)  3.536 ms  4.446 ms  5.454 ms
 2  96.120.90.109 (96.120.90.109)  25.662 ms  27.248 ms  27.661 ms
 3  po-107-rur02.fairfield.ca.sfba.comcast.net (162.151.30.237)  26.714 ms  28.006 ms  28.795 ms
192.168.1.1 is my router. 96.120.90.109 is the Comcast router just upstream. Line 3 is still Comcast. I could have included more, but that's enough to see how it works.

So the long and short of it is, you don't have a problem.

RobLewis
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Re: What are these 2 Ethernet devices on my LAN?

Wed Jan 02, 2019 3:18 am

No, my ASUS router/gateway is, and always has been, at 10.0.0.250. I don't want to change that.
Its DHCP server log says that both the 10.0.0.1 and 10.0.0.18 addresses were dynamically assigned to the Pi.

I don't want the Pi to attempt any routing. I would like it to used wired Ethernet. And I would like to change the confusing host name "Network Router" that it is reporting.

W. H. Heydt
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Re: What are these 2 Ethernet devices on my LAN?

Wed Jan 02, 2019 3:55 am

RobLewis wrote:
Wed Jan 02, 2019 3:18 am
No, my ASUS router/gateway is, and always has been, at 10.0.0.250. I don't want to change that.
Please post the router's LAN configuration.
Its DHCP server log says that both the 10.0.0.1 and 10.0.0.18 addresses were dynamically assigned to the Pi.
Post the results of

Code: Select all

ifconfig
when run on your Pi.
I don't want the Pi to attempt any routing. I would like it to used wired Ethernet. And I would like to change the confusing host name "Network Router" that it is reporting.
The Pi isn't going to be doing any routing. It may request information from the internet. At the very least, it should be making periodic requests to NTP servers on the 'net, and those requests require routing.

Ernst
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Re: What are these 2 Ethernet devices on my LAN?

Wed Jan 02, 2019 7:58 am

RobLewis wrote:
Wed Jan 02, 2019 3:18 am
I don't want the Pi to attempt any routing. I would like it to used wired Ethernet. And I would like to change the confusing host name "Network Router" that it is reporting.
Who is it ?
Who is doing the "reporting" ?
What name is recorded on the DNS server ? What DNS software is being used ?
What is the hostname of the Pi ? and what is the operating system ?
What is the output of nslookup ? (one each machine in your network)
What is the contents of "/etc/hosts" on the machine where your get "Network Router" ?

And at last, do you think that a host name with an embedded space is a valid host name ?
The road to insanity is paved with static ip addresses

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Re: What are these 2 Ethernet devices on my LAN?

Wed Jan 02, 2019 9:03 am

on your RPI report
ifconfig ; cat /etc/network/interfaces
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mfa298
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Re: What are these 2 Ethernet devices on my LAN?

Wed Jan 02, 2019 3:20 pm

W. H. Heydt wrote:
Tue Jan 01, 2019 1:13 am
Generally, your router should get the lowest non-zero address in the local block. In your case, that would be 10.0.0.1. If you look at the network configuration on any device on your LAN, it should show a "Gateway address". That will be the LAN address of the router.
It doesn't have to be, for a /24 network then it's common that the router is either .1 or .254 but there's no requirement. In one place I worked we had one default router on .17 (in a /22 network) but that's not to be recommended! The only two explicitly reserved addresses on a network are the network address (.0 on a /24 network) and the broadcast address (.255 on a /24 network). Other addresses (router etc.) are reserved by some (maybe unwritten) local policy, similarly other addresses might be reserved by a local policy for certain devices (in that same place we kept a range of addresses for network equipment and network laptops).
RobLewis wrote:
Tue Jan 01, 2019 1:03 am
"Network Router" at 10.0.0.1, and (no name) at 10.0.0.18, which appears to be the Wi-Fi connection. I presume 10.0.0.1 is the wired Ethernet port, but what is the business with "network router"? My actual router is at 10.0.0.250 and has DHCP enabled.
The "Network Router" tag might just be whatever tool your using making the assumption that as it's a .1 address it's the router even though it's not.

W. H. Heydt
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Re: What are these 2 Ethernet devices on my LAN?

Wed Jan 02, 2019 6:42 pm

mfa298 wrote:
Wed Jan 02, 2019 3:20 pm
W. H. Heydt wrote:
Tue Jan 01, 2019 1:13 am
Generally, your router should get the lowest non-zero address in the local block. In your case, that would be 10.0.0.1. If you look at the network configuration on any device on your LAN, it should show a "Gateway address". That will be the LAN address of the router.
It doesn't have to be, for a /24 network then it's common that the router is either .1 or .254 but there's no requirement. In one place I worked we had one default router on .17 (in a /22 network) but that's not to be recommended! The only two explicitly reserved addresses on a network are the network address (.0 on a /24 network) and the broadcast address (.255 on a /24 network). Other addresses (router etc.) are reserved by some (maybe unwritten) local policy, similarly other addresses might be reserved by a local policy for certain devices (in that same place we kept a range of addresses for network equipment and network laptops).
.254 has pretty much gone by the wayside. The OPs claim of .250 would be, to say the least, rather unusual and--frankly--I am inclined to disbeleive it. That's why I'd like to see some actual data.

And, if it comes to that, what the model number of the router is.

(And regardless of all this, Apple's default use of 10.0.0.0 for LANs is plain ridiculous. No SOHO LAN is going to have over 65K devices on it, so using a Class A IP block is just chutzpah on their part.)

RobLewis
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Re: What are these 2 Ethernet devices on my LAN?

Wed Jan 02, 2019 8:44 pm

The OPs claim of .250 would be, to say the least, rather unusual and--frankly--I am inclined to disbeleive it.
Oh, for heaven's sake, I may not be a total networking jock but I'm not a complete beginner! This ASUS router is probably the fourth one I've had over the years, and I promise you they were all on 10.0.0.250. If I'm capable of setting up a working DNS (on 10.0.0.252) then I ought to be able to set a router gateway address. I have never seen anything to indicate that the router must have the lowest-numbered address in the subnet. It may be conventional, but so what?

I have gigabit fiber coming into my house, to an ADTRAN Optical Network Terminal that presents a WAN address (209.166.75.5, if you want to verify). This goes to the ASUS router's WAN port. Its LAN ports (and WiFi) go to roughly 2 dozen devices, WiFi access points, and switches spread around 2 buildings. NAT is enabled.

The router's DHCP server is set up to serve addresses between 10.0.0.1 and 10.0.0.25. As noted earlier, some of my devices have fixed 10.0.0.x addresses, others have predetermined addresses served to them by DHCP, and others get random DHCP addresses. It all works, OK?

Ernst
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Re: What are these 2 Ethernet devices on my LAN?

Wed Jan 02, 2019 9:08 pm

RobLewis wrote:
Wed Jan 02, 2019 8:44 pm
Oh, for heaven's sake, I may not be a total networking jock but I'm not a complete beginner!
So why do you have a host with the name "Network Router" on your network ?
The road to insanity is paved with static ip addresses

RobLewis
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Re: What are these 2 Ethernet devices on my LAN?

Wed Jan 02, 2019 10:11 pm

So why do you have a host with the name "Network Router" on your network ?
Wow, this is getting surreal. The WHOLE REASON for my initial post was that I connected my new Pi to my LAN, and suddenly a device shows up at 10.0.0.1 called "Network Router" (as listed by the Mac program "WiFi Scanner", which, despite its name, lists wired devices it finds, too).

In many years of using my network, I NEVER saw anything like this before. So I assumed it was built into the Pi.

Since it evidently isn't, upon thinking about it, I now see two possibilities. Both start with the router's DHCP server assigning 10.0.0.1 to the Pi's wired port. Nothing odd about that since I defined the DHCP address pool to go from 1 to 25. Then:

[*]When I ran WiFi Scanner on the Mac, it saw the device and said "Oh, since it's at address x.x.x.1, it's probably a router so I'll just report it as that."

[*]The router noticed "Oh, there's a device at 10.0.0.1, so it must be a router and I'll name it that."

Both wrong, of course. But I can't figure any other explanation (I suspect the first one). Perhaps I'll try starting the address pool at 10.0.0.2 and see what happens.

I appreciate the efforts to help with this.

Ernst
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Re: What are these 2 Ethernet devices on my LAN?

Wed Jan 02, 2019 10:33 pm

RobLewis wrote:
Wed Jan 02, 2019 10:11 pm
So why do you have a host with the name "Network Router" on your network ?
Wow, this is getting surreal. The WHOLE REASON for my initial post was that I connected my new Pi to my LAN, and suddenly a device shows up at 10.0.0.1 called "Network Router" (as listed by the Mac program "WiFi Scanner", which, despite its name, lists wired devices it finds, too).

In many years of using my network, I NEVER saw anything like this before. So I assumed it was built into the Pi.

Since it evidently isn't, upon thinking about it, I now see two possibilities. Both start with the router's DHCP server assigning 10.0.0.1 to the Pi's wired port. Nothing odd about that since I defined the DHCP address pool to go from 1 to 25. Then:

[*]When I ran WiFi Scanner on the Mac, it saw the device and said "Oh, since it's at address x.x.x.1, it's probably a router so I'll just report it as that."

[*]The router noticed "Oh, there's a device at 10.0.0.1, so it must be a router and I'll name it that."

Both wrong, of course. But I can't figure any other explanation (I suspect the first one). Perhaps I'll try starting the address pool at 10.0.0.2 and see what happens.

I appreciate the efforts to help with this.
You could have been a lot further if you had picked up my comment about the embedded space in the host name, meaning "Network Router" is not a valid host name and can not be the host name of a device, alternatively a name for an address assigned to an interface on a network device. As you have not given any further information it is up to you to identify the piece of software that assumes that .1 is a router and then gives it a description "Network Router". There is nothing wrong (yet) on your network, there is not need to change anything (yet). I leave it over to you to find out what the implication of yet could be.
The road to insanity is paved with static ip addresses

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Re: What are these 2 Ethernet devices on my LAN?

Thu Jan 03, 2019 9:56 am

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markandrews
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Re: What are these 2 Ethernet devices on my LAN?

Fri Jan 04, 2019 1:33 pm

This could simply be the "WiFi Scanner" Mac software making an assumption (bad one) about the device because it's address is 10.0.0.1 (a traditional IP for Routers). If you try allocating a different IP to that Pi you'll soon find out. You can also run the following from the Mac's command line to do a reverse lookup on the IP (i.e. see what the Mac thinks the Pi is called and cut out the scanner software).

Code: Select all

nslookup 10.0.0.1

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