Leeloo
Posts: 49
Joined: Fri Oct 06, 2017 9:53 pm

should I upgrade to the 3b+ ?

Thu Sep 13, 2018 3:27 am

few questions I wanted help with :3

is it worth upgrading from the pi3 for the minor performance boost the slightly higher speeds the b3+ will give ? (also if on a budget is the existing official 2A psu enough?)

wondering about heat too, is the new spreader enough to make it not need additional cooling in form of hs+fan? I watched videos that said new pi hit 70 degrees after 5 minutes where the old pi hit 80 and throttled but they never mentioned if prolonged use (over an hour or so) would throttle the new model too or if it held at those temps.
is the spreader enough to keep everything cool on its own?

was also considering if I should instead spend my money on a flirc case to keep my existing pi cool? (and make it look good)

as a secondary though I wondering is the newer model have easier time booting from usb devices at all too?

Thanks

W. H. Heydt
Posts: 11679
Joined: Fri Mar 09, 2012 7:36 pm
Location: Vallejo, CA (US)

Re: should I upgrade to the 3b+ ?

Thu Sep 13, 2018 3:44 am

Reasons to convert...
Slightly higher default clock.
Improved thermal control (not just the heat spreader on top....find and read the blog post from when it launched.
Improved Ethernet speed.
Added 5GHz WiFi

Reasons not to convert...
If the Pi3B is doing teh job, why change it?
Pi3B+ is fussier about power. 2A may not be enough even if it is for a Pi3B
You're out an additional $35.
Depending on load, you may not see the improved speed.

It's your budget and your call. Personally, from what you say, I'd stick with the Pi3B if it is doing the job you got it for.

User avatar
bertlea
Posts: 303
Joined: Wed Dec 07, 2016 6:33 am
Location: Hong Kong

Re: should I upgrade to the 3b+ ?

Thu Sep 13, 2018 3:47 am

Depends on how you want to use your Pi for. If only make sense if you want, say, power it over LAN cable (assume you have the equipment support that), or you are running CPU intensive tasks most of the time. If not, I would say there is no need to upgrade from Pi3B to Pi3B+.

If you plan to put the Pi in a case without a fan, then I found P3B is actually cooler in most of the cases. A passive cooling case like flirc is very effective. I personally feel that was my best investment for my Pi.

I think the Pi3B can be boot from USB device as simple as Pi3B+. Not much difference there. BTW, there is an argument whether boot from USB is better than from SD card. I personally prefer boot from SD card and if you need extra storage or have frequent dist i/o tasks, you can attach an USB SSD separately, but still boot from SD card.

In general, my opinion is if you already got a Pi3B, and no need for another Pi to use at the same time, then I think you should not upgrade and save the money for a good case or few more good SD card to try different things.

jahboater
Posts: 5209
Joined: Wed Feb 04, 2015 6:38 pm
Location: West Dorset

Re: should I upgrade to the 3b+ ?

Thu Sep 13, 2018 6:51 am

W. H. Heydt wrote:
Thu Sep 13, 2018 3:44 am
Reasons to convert...
Slightly higher default clock.
Improved thermal control (not just the heat spreader on top....find and read the blog post from when it launched.
Improved Ethernet speed.
Added 5GHz WiFi
And an improved WiFi antenna ...

k-pi
Posts: 930
Joined: Sun Feb 12, 2017 1:46 pm
Location: Upper Hale, Surrey, UK.

Re: should I upgrade to the 3b+ ?

Thu Sep 13, 2018 8:20 am

I have both, & there isn't much between them in my use case as a desktop computer replacement, other than the 5G access, which helps a little.

With the OTB set on my RPi3B, it works just as well for me as the RPi3B+ for USB booting.

I, personally, haven't been able to get any of my RPi3B to boot from a HDD or SSD drive from just the power from the USB ports, they need their own power supply - it does boot OK from pendrives &/or SD/SDHC cards in an adapter.

P.S. I am using the official 2.5A power supply with mine, & sometimes power them, RPi3B & HDD/SSD via a powered USB hub.

User avatar
HawaiianPi
Posts: 5261
Joined: Mon Apr 08, 2013 4:53 am
Location: Aloha, Oregon USA

Re: should I upgrade to the 3b+ ?

Thu Sep 13, 2018 9:14 am

k-pi wrote:
Thu Sep 13, 2018 8:20 am
...
I, personally, haven't been able to get any of my RPi3B to boot from a HDD or SSD drive from just the power from the USB ports, they need their own power supply - it does boot OK from pendrives &/or SD/SDHC cards in an adapter.
Odd that you have this trouble, especially with SSD?

What do you use as a power supply for your Pi3B?


@Leeloo,

If your Pi3B is working well for you, and you are on a budget, I would say it's probably not worth it. Unless you can find a specific reason or use case... do you need 5GHz WiFi, or faster Ethernet?

The 2.5A @ 5V power recommendation for the Pi3 models includes 1.2A for the USB ports. If you don't use power hungry USB devices a 2A power supply should be fine. The Pi3B+ does consume more power, but it would still need something drawing power from USB (or GPIO) to get over 2A.

I have both Pi3B and Pi3B+ computers and don't feel much performance difference between them. Network speed is certainly better, and it's harder to heat up the 3B+ to throttling speeds, but I have my systems well cooled, so heat isn't an issue for me, and I don't do much web browsing on the Pi (I find them too slow to use as general purpose computers).

I upgraded my Creeper Pie Minecraft SMP server from a 3B to a 3B+ for the additional performance, but the difference I feel is subtle enough that I can't honestly say it isn't placebo effect. It does feel like there is less server lag, but there wasn't much to begin with, so... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

The boot-loader in the newer 3B+ model is supposed to be improved, but I haven't found a difference yet. Someone else on the forum posted that one USB drive he had that would not boot on his 3B worked on the 3B+ model. So yes, in theory anyway, the newer 3B+ model should work better for USB boot, and it comes with the OTP USB boot bit set from the factory, so you can just flash a USB drive and go, which is certainly easier.

I keep most of my Pi 3B and 3B+ computers cool in 2nd generation Flirc cases.

Image

The entire case acts as a huge heatsink. The only drawback is that the GPIO is not easily accessible. There is a slot in the bottom of the case to run wires out, but for easier GPIO access I do have a couple in open style acrylic cases from JBTek.

Image
The fan makes noise, uses power, and collects dust, so the Flirc is definitely the better solution if you don't mess with GPIO often.

Anyway... I would say, stick with your Pi3B unless you need better Ethernet or WiFi performance.
My mind is like a browser. 27 tabs are open, 9 aren't responding,
lots of pop-ups...and where is that annoying music coming from?

LTolledo
Posts: 2833
Joined: Sat Mar 17, 2018 7:29 am
Location: Anime Heartland

Re: should I upgrade to the 3b+ ?

Thu Sep 13, 2018 9:45 am

If you like tinkering with the GPIOs, better not. Too sensitive and there have been many cases here in the forum of "accidents with the GPIO" in the RPi3B+.

For normal desktop use... or torrent box,.... and using wired Ethernet, maybe a better choice...

I have one as desktop (this unit am using to write to this forum), another one in FLIRC Gen2 case as deskbench RPi3B+, and another one as spare (NOT COLLECTING DUST! :D )
"Don't come to me with 'issues' for I don't know how to deal with those
Come to me with 'problems' and I'll help you find solutions"

Some people be like:
"Help me! Am drowning! But dont you dare touch me nor come near me!"

jamesh
Raspberry Pi Engineer & Forum Moderator
Raspberry Pi Engineer & Forum Moderator
Posts: 25443
Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2011 7:41 pm

Re: should I upgrade to the 3b+ ?

Thu Sep 13, 2018 9:50 am

LTolledo wrote:
Thu Sep 13, 2018 9:45 am
If you like tinkering with the GPIOs, better not. Too sensitive and there have been many cases here in the forum of "accidents with the GPIO" in the RPi3B+.
Only a problem if you mess around when powered up. If you short3.3 to 5v on the live GPIO's then you may cause problems with the PMIC. "Accidents with the GPIO" are almost always user error in this scenario.
Principal Software Engineer at Raspberry Pi (Trading) Ltd.
Contrary to popular belief, humorous signatures are allowed. Here's an example...
“I own the world’s worst thesaurus. Not only is it awful, it’s awful."

LTolledo
Posts: 2833
Joined: Sat Mar 17, 2018 7:29 am
Location: Anime Heartland

Re: should I upgrade to the 3b+ ?

Thu Sep 13, 2018 10:47 am

jamesh wrote:
Thu Sep 13, 2018 9:50 am
"Accidents with the GPIO" are almost always user error in this scenario.
Wont argue with this.....even if forced to :lol:
"Don't come to me with 'issues' for I don't know how to deal with those
Come to me with 'problems' and I'll help you find solutions"

Some people be like:
"Help me! Am drowning! But dont you dare touch me nor come near me!"

jahboater
Posts: 5209
Joined: Wed Feb 04, 2015 6:38 pm
Location: West Dorset

Re: should I upgrade to the 3b+ ?

Thu Sep 13, 2018 10:50 am

The thermal management improvements should not be understated.

The CPU clock speed has gone up by 200MHz which is 16.7%, but the reduced throttling gives rather more benefit for very large, long running, jobs. I first noticed this when the new GCC was released. GCC took 6.5 hours to build on a 3B, whereas on the new 3B+ it takes 4.5 hours because it runs the entire build at 1.4GHz.
The old 3B could never do that, it always throttled regardless of how good the heat sink was.

I think my Odroid C2 is soon for retirement, the 3B+ is approaching its performance and obviously far better supported.

hippy
Posts: 6853
Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2011 10:34 pm
Location: UK

Re: should I upgrade to the 3b+ ?

Thu Sep 13, 2018 1:23 pm

Leeloo wrote:
Thu Sep 13, 2018 3:27 am
is it worth upgrading from the pi3 for the minor performance boost the slightly higher speeds the b3+ will give ?
Perhaps you could tell us what gains you believe it would bring to you if you did and why. Then people here can give their views on that.

Otherwise : Is it worth it; yes. Is it worth it; no. Take your pick.

Leeloo
Posts: 49
Joined: Fri Oct 06, 2017 9:53 pm

Re: should I upgrade to the 3b+ ?

Thu Sep 13, 2018 5:17 pm

@W. H. Heydt, thanks I will look the post up!

@bertlea, I had mixed results getting usb boot working on the older model, while back I followed a guide to flash something and enable usb booting but running noobs (and the other installer) from sd card wouldn't install to any of my external usb drives (stick or ssd) giving various errors, just figured I was unlucky so I am currently running from sdcard but would rather run from ssd for peace of mind.

only reason I didn't want to run from sd is mostly reading that regular sd cards wear and in a pi have a life expectancy somewhere around a year or two tops, I have no idea the the Pi branded sd card that came with my starter bundle is rated for lots of io or not.

@HawaiianPi, other than it getting hot (with heatsync) yep its running fine and nope 5ghz wifi or faster eithernet aren't really something I need, I believe the router it's connected to isn't gigabit anyways!

but its funny I use mine for almost the same reason, currently minecraft server for my nephew + samba server so I have somewhere to drop files that I can use from anywhere in the house, wonder do you use a full desktop or just a terminal based thing for your server?

@LTolledo nope I don't mess around with gpio mostly out of my league, also I am with Hawaiian I don't really want to use it as a day to day machine, I feel it has too little memory to make web-browsing enjoyable experience (not that it can't be done) but just sitting here on my laptop with a bunch of tabs open nothing intense and firefox is using 1.5gb of ram. :?

@jahboater, I really love the Pi, it's popularity given it a very good active community and support is great! can literally get them anywhere but some of the off brand things are hard to find, don't get updated nearly as often.

Honestly then (other than heat) mine is running fine for now so I might just grab a Flirc and wait for the Pi4 before replacing it.

Thanks

W. H. Heydt
Posts: 11679
Joined: Fri Mar 09, 2012 7:36 pm
Location: Vallejo, CA (US)

Re: should I upgrade to the 3b+ ?

Thu Sep 13, 2018 6:06 pm

Leeloo wrote:
Thu Sep 13, 2018 5:17 pm
only reason I didn't want to run from sd is mostly reading that regular sd cards wear and in a pi have a life expectancy somewhere around a year or two tops, I have no idea the the Pi branded sd card that came with my starter bundle is rated for lots of io or not.
It really depends on what you're doing. It's write activity that "kills" cards (plus, as often noted, improper shut down procedures). I've run a Pi as an "alarm clock" for several years and haven't had any SD card issues, but it's on 24/7 and except for the routine writing time checks back to the card and the occasional system update, nothing writes to the SD card. And--of course--just because an SD card fails, doesn't mean that the Pi has failed. I've also not had any issues with booting from an HDD or SSD, but I've only used one HDD (a 314GB PiDrive) and a handful of SSDs.
Honestly then (other than heat) mine is running fine for now so I might just grab a Flirc and wait for the Pi4 before replacing it.
I think a lot of people are "making do" until the Pi4B arrives. We just get to hope that it will show up before either the girl from Arles...or Godot.

Return to “Beginners”