Th0ma5
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can't boot PI3 after dropping the heat sink onto the board by accident

Sun Aug 19, 2018 11:42 am

Hi, my son has been given a pi3 and was going to install the small heat sink when he dropped it and we think it shorted. now nothing happens . we have unplugged the keyboard and mouse, changed the hdmi lead and tried turning it on. we have a red light but nothing else. the SD came preloaded. (I have absolutely no idea about this subject - The only pi i know is cherry!)
I've tried searching for help but we are completely confused. T does pi at school so isnt completely new to it.
Please help!

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mahjongg
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Re: can't boot PI3 after dropping the heat sink onto the board by accident

Sun Aug 19, 2018 12:02 pm

The sd-car was probably corrupted, and you have to re-image it with etcher.

please read the boot problem sticky, in trouble-shooting https://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/view ... 28&t=58151.

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Imperf3kt
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Re: can't boot PI3 after dropping the heat sink onto the board by accident

Sun Aug 19, 2018 10:38 pm

You have the red light, so you've got power.
Try removing the SD card, and place your finger on the SoC (can you? Or is it covered in paste / tape?)
Turn it on and feel for heat - any heat at all indicates it is fried. If you do feel heat, be ready to remove your finger quickly, because it will get scaldingly hot in mere seconds.


If it doesn't get hot, then the SD card is probablu y corrupt as mentioned above.
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DougieLawson
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Re: can't boot PI3 after dropping the heat sink onto the board by accident

Sun Aug 19, 2018 10:54 pm

Why would anyone try to mount a heatsink with the board powered up? There's too much chance to short 3V3 to GND, short 5V to 3V3 or short 5V to GND. Shorting pins is a good way to shoot a Raspberry Pi very (and unreviveably) dead.
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Re: can't boot PI3 after dropping the heat sink onto the board by accident

Mon Aug 20, 2018 2:03 am

DougieLawson wrote:
Sun Aug 19, 2018 10:54 pm
Why would anyone try to mount a heatsink with the board powered up? There's too much chance to short 3V3 to GND, short 5V to 3V3 or short 5V to GND. Shorting pins is a good way to shoot a Raspberry Pi very (and unreviveably) dead.
Well it was a child, so we could cut him some slack.
Th0ma5 wrote:
Sun Aug 19, 2018 11:42 am
... The only pi i know is cherry!
I'm partial to Pecan myself.

For future reference, it's best to shut down the Pi computer and remove the power cord before making any changes to the hardware (that includes messing with GPIO connections, adding heatsinks, and even changing the SD card).

In addition, if you are installing or removing the Pi from a case, also remove the SD card. :!: Image :!:
My mind is like a browser. 27 tabs are open, 9 aren't responding,
lots of pop-ups...and where is that annoying music coming from?

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Re: can't boot PI3 after dropping the heat sink onto the board by accident

Mon Aug 20, 2018 4:07 am

DougieLawson wrote:
Sun Aug 19, 2018 10:54 pm
Why would anyone try to mount a heatsink with the board powered up? There's too much chance to short 3V3 to GND, short 5V to 3V3 or short 5V to GND. Shorting pins is a good way to shoot a Raspberry Pi very (and unreviveably) dead.
When I worked for a Regional Bell Operating Company (aka RBOC), some of the techs we had to do work on PCs were used to working in COs and occasionally would try to do what worked there...hot swap board exchanges in PCs. Can you say "Goodbye, motherboard"? I knew you could. These were, theoretically well trained, company technicians. Cut the kid some slack.

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DougieLawson
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Re: can't boot PI3 after dropping the heat sink onto the board by accident

Mon Aug 20, 2018 6:46 am

There's no slack to cut. Day 1, electronics 101 has three things to learn.
  1. Polarity
  2. Ohms Law
  3. Power off before changing things
that's it. That's the syllabus for the first day of the course.
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LTolledo
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Re: can't boot PI3 after dropping the heat sink onto the board by accident

Mon Aug 20, 2018 9:21 am

DougieLawson wrote:
Mon Aug 20, 2018 6:46 am
There's no slack to cut. Day 1, electronics 101 has three things to learn.
  1. Polarity
  2. Ohms Law
  3. Power off before changing things
that's it. That's the syllabus for the first day of the course.
Can I add

"Safety First!"
"Don't come to me with 'issues' for I don't know how to deal with those
Come to me with 'problems' and I'll help you find solutions"

Some people be like:
"Help me! Am drowning! But dont you dare touch me nor come near me!"

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DougieLawson
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Re: can't boot PI3 after dropping the heat sink onto the board by accident

Mon Aug 20, 2018 9:25 am

You can. Although my Electronics 101 is a low voltage course. High power @ 400Kv is a topic for another day.
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Imperf3kt
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Re: can't boot PI3 after dropping the heat sink onto the board by accident

Mon Aug 20, 2018 9:35 am

Whether true or not, the fact remains that a lesson was learnt, just - the hard way.
I am sure the loss of the Pi (unconfirmed!) is lesson enough and that they have learnt from the experience. There is no need to rub salt in the wound.
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Re: can't boot PI3 after dropping the heat sink onto the board by accident

Mon Aug 20, 2018 10:16 am

Imperf3kt wrote:
Mon Aug 20, 2018 9:35 am
There is no need to rub salt in the wound.
Indeed. It is somewhat harsh laying the blame on failing Electronics 101 when the poor child and his parents might never have heard of that. I guess we could also say they failed Mechanics 101 and Common Sense 101; "Don't drop what you're holding".

Mistakes being made are one of the risks when providing people with things without clearly explaining what they should and shouldn't do or detailing the dangers involved in getting things wrong. One cannot always assume a recipient has the prerequisite knowledge which will save them from their own mistakes.

Was the Pi or heatsink provided with warnings not to fit heatsinks while the board was powered ? Is Electronics 101 listed as a prerequisite for fitting heatsinks or otherwise attaching things to a Pi ?

If not then one could argue that it's not really the child's fault. They didn't know any better and no one told them they should know better.

I think they could have a good case for blaming the accident on others not telling them not to do what they attempted to do.

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Re: can't boot PI3 after dropping the heat sink onto the board by accident

Mon Aug 20, 2018 11:48 am

hippy wrote:
Mon Aug 20, 2018 10:16 am
I think they could have a good case for blaming the accident on others not telling them not to do what they attempted to do.
After washing poodle, do not put it in microwave oven to dry.

hippy
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Re: can't boot PI3 after dropping the heat sink onto the board by accident

Mon Aug 20, 2018 12:23 pm

drgeoff wrote:
Mon Aug 20, 2018 11:48 am
hippy wrote:
Mon Aug 20, 2018 10:16 am
I think they could have a good case for blaming the accident on others not telling them not to do what they attempted to do.
After washing poodle, do not put it in microwave oven to dry.
I am not sure that has ever been done out of not recognising the consequences. No case is clear cut and depends on the circumstance but failure to warn can be actionable -

https://www.justia.com/products-liabili ... re-to-warn

That mostly refers to injury, but any damage or adverse consequence to a customer would also seem to fall in scope. It would be up to a court to decide if there was any failure to warn.

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Re: can't boot PI3 after dropping the heat sink onto the board by accident

Mon Aug 20, 2018 1:21 pm

You and your son have our sympathy.

If re-flashing the sd card doesn't help it's likely there's nothing to be done but to replace the board.

I doubt there's anyone here who's done much with electronics who hasn't had an accident at some point which has broken something.

I made my once-only mistake when trying to get lighting to our loft at the age of about 8. I wired up a bayonette extension lead the wrong way round and had the live end on the "male" and the extension to the "female", and missed while joining them up in the dark while turned on. The arc blew me down the ladder....

After that I turn everything off first, regardless!

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Imperf3kt
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Re: can't boot PI3 after dropping the heat sink onto the board by accident

Tue Aug 21, 2018 1:32 am

Note that turning things off, and unplugging them, doesn't always guarantee safety either.
When I was about 12, my uncle gave me a variable DC power supply. It had no side covers and was very heavy, but otherwise functioned perfectly, converting ~250VAC, into anywhere from 1VDC to 32VDC and was able to supply this at up to 20Amps.
It had two massive capacitors (each three times the size of a Pi) inside it, and I always managed to touch the positive side of one cap and ground (the metal frame of the device). The cap was holding DC charge as far as I am aware.
Needless to say, the pain was indescribable, and the sensation of electricity flowing through my hand, was unique. Not something easily forgotten.

I did that several times, luckily with it always disconnected from mains.
I learnt my lesson after the third electrocution, but never had the common sense to put a new cover on it.

Anyway, my point was that even powered down and unplugged electronics, can pose an electrocution or other hazard.
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Re: can't boot PI3 after dropping the heat sink onto the board by accident

Tue Aug 21, 2018 1:44 am

DougieLawson wrote:
Mon Aug 20, 2018 6:46 am
There's no slack to cut. Day 1, electronics 101 has three things to learn.
  1. Polarity
  2. Ohms Law
  3. Power off before changing things
that's it. That's the syllabus for the first day of the course.
Until you run into equipment that runs 24/7 and is built to tolerate hot swap components. FYI...by design that includes SATA drives at the hardware level. (An OS would probably object to trying to hot swap a system drive.)

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Re: can't boot PI3 after dropping the heat sink onto the board by accident

Tue Aug 21, 2018 1:49 am

Imperf3kt wrote:
Tue Aug 21, 2018 1:32 am
Note that turning things off, and unplugging them, doesn't always guarantee safety either.
When I was about 12, my uncle gave me a variable DC power supply. It had no side covers and was very heavy, but otherwise functioned perfectly, converting ~250VAC, into anywhere from 1VDC to 32VDC and was able to supply this at up to 20Amps.
It had two massive capacitors (each three times the size of a Pi) inside it, and I always managed to touch the positive side of one cap and ground (the metal frame of the device). The cap was holding DC charge as far as I am aware.
Needless to say, the pain was indescribable, and the sensation of electricity flowing through my hand, was unique. Not something easily forgotten.

I did that several times, luckily with it always disconnected from mains.
I learnt my lesson after the third electrocution, but never had the common sense to put a new cover on it.

Anyway, my point was that even powered down and unplugged electronics, can pose an electrocution or other hazard.
Heh... Photoflash capacitors are rated for 330v and are usually charged to 300v. I built one rig that used 4 750uF ones....it was to fire a 40 Joule flash tube.

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