pfurrie
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Update of Jessie kills OS?

Fri Jan 06, 2017 8:06 pm

Have a new Raspberry Pi 3. Load current (as of January 5th, 2016) image of Raspbian, downloaded from the Raspberry Pi website. Image an 8 GB micro-SD card (Patriot, class 10), and start the RP. RP is connected to wired network. After boot to desktop, I run:

sudo raspi-config

This successfully opens the config tool. Exit config tool. Then run:

sudo apt-get update

After update, then run:

sudo apt-get upgrade

After upgrade, notice that the desktop background is no longer an image but just white, and the program icons in the top bar are now showing generic icons (as if it can't find the programs).

Now try to run:

sudo apt-get upgrade

Nope... "apt-get" is no longer found. Then try:

sudo raspi-config

Again, no joy.

Have tried this on multiple cards, all brand new, with same results.

Is this a problem with the upgrade process? If not, then do we think the Raspberry Pi is not liking these micro-SD cards? Is it the brand or the speed of the card?

ShiftPlusOne
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Re: Update of Jessie kills OS?

Fri Jan 06, 2017 11:55 pm

Sounds like a corrupted SD card.

pfurrie
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Re: Update of Jessie kills OS?

Sat Jan 07, 2017 12:38 am

ShiftPlusOne wrote:Sounds like a corrupted SD card.
Really? All five cards? (I bought a pack of five... all of them do the same thing)

ShiftPlusOne
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Re: Update of Jessie kills OS?

Sat Jan 07, 2017 1:02 am

If you have bought five cards of the same type, they are likely to be incompatible.

Could you try flashing the card again and adding "mmc_card.quirks=0x80000000" to cmdline.txt, then rebooting and trying to upgrade again? Output of dmesg if it all goes wrong could be useful too.

Edit: Also, have you ever seen the lightning bolt icon show up in the top right corner? That would indicate a power supply problem.

pfurrie
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Re: Update of Jessie kills OS?

Sat Jan 07, 2017 12:29 pm

ShiftPlusOne wrote:If you have bought five cards of the same type, they are likely to be incompatible.

Could you try flashing the card again and adding "mmc_card.quirks=0x80000000" to cmdline.txt, then rebooting and trying to upgrade again? Output of dmesg if it all goes wrong could be useful too.

Edit: Also, have you ever seen the lightning bolt icon show up in the top right corner? That would indicate a power supply problem.
Can do... though have a couple questions for clarity:
  1. Is there an official list of what cards are compatible? (I did find http://www.raspberry-pi.co.uk/2012/06/0 ... -sd-cards/, but unsure if this is official). This shouldn't be a game of guessing in order to get a card which works reliably. Am surprised this would be so hit-and-miss. When I install Windows on a computer, I never have to look at a list to determine if the drive is "compatible" with Windows.
  2. Can you provide some info regarding what you are looking for with mmc_card.quirks? What does it do?
  3. Is "dmesg" a file, and if so, where do I find it? What is the purpose of dmesg?
Thanks.
Last edited by pfurrie on Sat Jan 07, 2017 12:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

fruitoftheloom
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Re: Update of Jessie kills OS?

Sat Jan 07, 2017 12:34 pm

pfurrie wrote:Have a new Raspberry Pi 3. Load current (as of January 5th, 2016) image of Raspbian, downloaded from the Raspberry Pi website. Image an 8 GB micro-SD card (Patriot, class 10), and start the RP. RP is connected to wired network. After boot to desktop, I run:

sudo raspi-config

This successfully opens the config tool. Exit config tool. Then run:

sudo apt-get update

After update, then run:

sudo apt-get upgrade

After upgrade, notice that the desktop background is no longer an image but just white, and the program icons in the top bar are now showing generic icons (as if it can't find the programs).

Now try to run:

sudo apt-get upgrade

Nope... "apt-get" is no longer found. Then try:

sudo raspi-config

Again, no joy.

Have tried this on multiple cards, all brand new, with same results.

Is this a problem with the upgrade process? If not, then do we think the Raspberry Pi is not liking these micro-SD cards? Is it the brand or the speed of the card?
What are you using for a Power Supply - specifications ??

https://www.raspberrypi.org/help/faqs/#powerReqs
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GreenLantern
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Re: Update of Jessie kills OS?

Sat Jan 07, 2017 1:33 pm

just thought id mention something i've noticed with the lightning bolt thing.
I setup my pi on my samsung tv using hdmi and then relocated it to my mothers to show my son. it seems the lightning bolt only seems to happen on the sony bravia tv at my mums....
Im thinking it may have something to do with the manufacturer of tv. so samsung is fine but sony i get the lightning bolt and no hardware changes either.

still looking into this with different hdmi leads too

best of luck !

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Re: Update of Jessie kills OS?

Sat Jan 07, 2017 1:39 pm

pfurrie wrote:
ShiftPlusOne wrote:If you have bought five cards of the same type, they are likely to be incompatible.

Could you try flashing the card again and adding "mmc_card.quirks=0x80000000" to cmdline.txt, then rebooting and trying to upgrade again? Output of dmesg if it all goes wrong could be useful too.

Edit: Also, have you ever seen the lightning bolt icon show up in the top right corner? That would indicate a power supply problem.
Can do... though have a couple questions for clarity:
  1. Is there an official list of what cards are compatible? (I did find http://www.raspberry-pi.co.uk/2012/06/0 ... -sd-cards/, but unsure if this is official). This shouldn't be a game of guessing in order to get a card which works reliably. Am surprised this would be so hit-and-miss. When I install Windows on a computer, I never have to look at a list to determine if the drive is "compatible" with Windows.
  2. Can you provide some info regarding what you are looking for with mmc_card.quirks? What does it do?
  3. Is "dmesg" a file, and if so, where do I find it? What is the purpose of dmesg?
Thanks.
The huge majority of cards are compatible. I've never seen an incompatible one, so its not really hit or miss - you would need to be unlucky to find ones that didn't work.

For dmesg, just type dmesg on the command line.
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Re: Update of Jessie kills OS?

Sat Jan 07, 2017 1:42 pm

GreenLantern wrote:just thought id mention something i've noticed with the lightning bolt thing.
I setup my pi on my samsung tv using hdmi and then relocated it to my mothers to show my son. it seems the lightning bolt only seems to happen on the sony bravia tv at my mums....
Im thinking it may have something to do with the manufacturer of tv. so samsung is fine but sony i get the lightning bolt and no hardware changes either.

still looking into this with different hdmi leads too

best of luck !
sorry, which TV you are using has nothing to do with whether an under voltage icon will appear or not. it might have to do with in which mains socket you plug in the power supply, but it more likely your supply+microUSB cable is marginal, and the rest is just coincidence.

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Re: Update of Jessie kills OS?

Sat Jan 07, 2017 2:06 pm

mahjongg wrote:sorry, which TV you are using has nothing to do with whether an under voltage icon will appear or not. it might have to do with in which mains socket you plug in the power supply, but it more likely your supply+microUSB cable is marginal, and the rest is just coincidence.
I'd go with the "marginal" thing. Possibly one TV takes slightly more power over HDMI than the other and that is enough to trigger the warning if the PSU is marginal.

pfurrie
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Re: Update of Jessie kills OS?

Sat Jan 07, 2017 7:30 pm

fruitoftheloom wrote:
What are you using for a Power Supply - specifications ??

https://www.raspberrypi.org/help/faqs/#powerReqs
Output: 5V 2500mA

pfurrie
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Re: Update of Jessie kills OS?

Sat Jan 07, 2017 7:49 pm

Okay, I think I know what it is... here is what has happened since:

Re-imaged one of the Patriot micro-SD cards with Jessie again, but this time didn't upgrade it. Afterwards, started up Raspberry Pi, did an update (only), then installed some software (Apache, PHP, etc). Afterwards, restarted, and it did get to the desktop...

BUT... a lot of the desktop had changed. The icon for network connection was all different, as were all of the other icons. Weird. Plus, the mouse cursor wasn't displaying (but you could tell the computer "saw" the mouse position).

From this, I'm figuring that the images are becoming corrupt (not that the cards in and of themselves are "bad").

For what it's worth, that part number is PSF8GMCSDHC5PK, and here is the page on Amazon:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B013P ... UTF8&psc=1

Ordered two SanDisk 16GB class 4 cards (part number SDSDQM-016G-B35A). Imaged one of the cards with the same Jessie image, then started up the Pi with that. First part, just fine to the desktop. The did both update and upgrade with no problems. Did notice after the upgrade that Pi showed me a notice that the OS had been upgraded; it hadn't done that after the upgrades with the Patriot cards. Everything else so far with the SanDisk card has gone by the numbers.

SOOOOO... what have I learned?
  1. The card matters.
  2. The force is not with me (I'm unlucky).
  3. Linux is WAY too hard, certainly more convoluted than it ought to be.
  4. My power supply seems to be okay.
  5. How to make an enumerated list in this editor (more complicated than any other I've used).
  6. The people in this forum are significantly more helpful than in most other forums.
What I still don't know is if the Patriot cards were a problem because of some subtle attribute, or because of the speed of the card (being class 10). People probably have theories and lots of anecdotal evidence one way or another, but would be interesting to see some carefully run experiment into that question.


Thanks!

fruitoftheloom
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Re: Update of Jessie kills OS?

Sat Jan 07, 2017 8:10 pm

pfurrie wrote:
fruitoftheloom wrote:
What are you using for a Power Supply - specifications ??

https://www.raspberrypi.org/help/faqs/#powerReqs
Output: 5V 2500mA
Is it a Power Supply or a Device Charger ?? Do you have a web link ???

Also if it has a separate USB Cable the try a different cable !!


Personally I now use the Official PSU after various power issues in my early days of RPiing:

http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/plug-in-p ... ly/9098126
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rpdom
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Re: Update of Jessie kills OS?

Sat Jan 07, 2017 8:17 pm

pfurrie wrote:
  1. The card matters.
  2. The force is not with me (I'm unlucky).
  3. Linux is WAY too hard, certainly more convoluted than it ought to be.
  4. My power supply seems to be okay.
  5. How to make an enumerated list in this editor (more complicated than any other I've used).
  6. The people in this forum are significantly more helpful than in most other forums.
What I still don't know is if the Patriot cards were a problem because of some subtle attribute, or because of the speed of the card (being class 10). People probably have theories and lots of anecdotal evidence one way or another, but would be interesting to see some carefully run experiment into that question.
The card does matter
I am at one with the force.
Linux is easier than Windows when you get down to it.
OK power supply is good.
I've not worked out how to do a list, but I haven't bothered to look at it.
Thank you, from all of us :-)

I don't know where you are, but I could try out one of your cards on a spare Pi and then send it back to you if you want. Just PM me details.

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Re: Update of Jessie kills OS?

Sat Jan 07, 2017 8:32 pm

fruitoftheloom wrote:
pfurrie wrote: Output: 5V 2500mA
Is it a Power Supply or a Device Charger ?? Do you have a web link ???
What more are you going to learn from a web link or device designation?

The PSU's spec/web/label may say XYZ (and it's a useful guide, can't argue with those figures), but what really matters is what it's delivering in practice at the Pi's 5V input. That you can only see approximately with a multimeter, but better with a 'scope so as to witness the PSU's dynamic performance wrt the instantaneous peaks n troughs of current demand.

pfurrie
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Re: Update of Jessie kills OS?

Sat Jan 07, 2017 10:28 pm

fruitoftheloom wrote:
pfurrie wrote:
fruitoftheloom wrote:
What are you using for a Power Supply - specifications ??

https://www.raspberrypi.org/help/faqs/#powerReqs
Output: 5V 2500mA
Is it a Power Supply or a Device Charger ?? Do you have a web link ???

Also if it has a separate USB Cable the try a different cable !!


Personally I now use the Official PSU after various power issues in my early days of RPiing:

http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/plug-in-p ... ly/9098126
Okay, well, first, power supply problems seems like a far-off reach for a problem, particularly if the device is otherwise coming up fine.
Second, you asked for specs. I gave them. After that, no need to get impatient that I hadn't provided information for you which hadn't asked (and really doesn't seem to be pertinent).

I do thank you for responding, and as such, here is a bit more info on the power supply (though I've already determined the source of my original issue, and posted a complete write-up for everyone's benefit):
Power supply (copied exactly as listed on the bottom of the adapter):
VILROS ADAPTER
SWITCHING ADAPTOR
MODEL:FJ-SW7260502500DU
INPUT:100-50V ~
50/50Hz 0.4A Max
OUTPUT:5V =-=-= 2500mA
C UL US LISTED
E303985 35ES
I.T.E Power Supply Also
Listed Audio/Video Product
Made in China
Efficienty Level VI

And it has an integrated cable (not removable). The power supply came provided as part of a Raspberry Pi starter kit which someone gave me for Christmas. I can't find the power supply online when I search for that model number, but that is definitely the number on the supply.

There you have it.

EDIT:
Here is the power supply (or one almost exactly the same):
http://www.vilros.com/raspberry-pi/rasp ... block.html
Last edited by pfurrie on Sat Jan 07, 2017 10:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

ShiftPlusOne
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Re: Update of Jessie kills OS?

Sat Jan 07, 2017 10:31 pm

pfurrie wrote: [*]Can you provide some info regarding what you are looking for with mmc_card.quirks? What does it do?
I am no expert on this, but my understanding is that some card don't implement the erase command properly and this tells the driver to work around the issue. If you could confirm that adding the line makes the card work, the driver might be updated to do this automatically for that card.

pfurrie
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Re: Update of Jessie kills OS?

Sat Jan 07, 2017 10:54 pm

ShiftPlusOne wrote:
pfurrie wrote: [*]Can you provide some info regarding what you are looking for with mmc_card.quirks? What does it do?
I am no expert on this, but my understanding is that some card don't implement the erase command properly and this tells the driver to work around the issue. If you could confirm that adding the line makes the card work, the driver might be updated to do this automatically for that card.
Ah, okay. Not in a hurry now (since I have a different card which seems to work great), but do want to get those Patriot cards to work, so will try, hopefully soon.

Thanks for the info!

GreenLantern
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Re: Update of Jessie kills OS?

Sun Jan 08, 2017 2:07 pm

pfurrie wrote:
fruitoftheloom wrote:
What are you using for a Power Supply - specifications ??

https://www.raspberrypi.org/help/faqs/#powerReqs
Output: 5V 2500mA
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
have tried two types of lead and psu, firstly i bought a HN-5258 - 5v @ 2500ma plug to usb psu with cable with switch functionality (nice touch) and also i grabbed my amazon fire stick plug top psu and lead and powered the pi off that 5v @1000ma. both gave me the same fault, but one thing to note, the lightning bolt only comes on screen when i use the wheel on a lazer type mouse ! maybe its the mouse drawing to much current too 5v @100ma coupled with the sony hdmi connection

kind regards

Rob

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