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Can anyone tell me how to boot pi 3 from a usb drive

Posted: Sat Mar 05, 2016 3:44 pm
by latinhawk
I have spent several days looking for the procedure to boot pi 3 from a usb drive. I can't find any instructions specific to pi 3. I only find the old you must use an sd card to boot story. Please helo me.

Re: Can anyone tell me?

Posted: Sat Mar 05, 2016 5:17 pm
by fruitoftheloom
latinhawk wrote:I have spent several days looking for the procedure to boot pi 3 from a usb drive. I can't find any instructions specific to pi 3. I only find the old you must use an sd card to boot story. Please helo me.
That has not yet been implimented afaiaa ;)

Re: Can anyone tell me?

Posted: Sat Mar 05, 2016 5:32 pm
by latinhawk
What is the use of announcing a feature that is not available. The only reason I ordered a pi 3 was to have use of USB drive without the need of the sd card.

Re: Can anyone tell me?

Posted: Sat Mar 05, 2016 6:20 pm
by klricks
latinhawk wrote:What is the use of announcing a feature that is not available. The only reason I ordered a pi 3 was to have use of USB drive without the need of the sd card.
You can already move most of the OS to a USB drive or USB hard disk using any version of the RPi. Then even an old 256 or 512MB micro SD card can be used for the boot files with very little effort.
I don't see any real advantage of having a USB only boot.

Re: Can anyone tell me?

Posted: Sat Mar 05, 2016 6:41 pm
by latinhawk
Tried that not the best way to do things. Providedme with a lot of headaches.

Re: Can anyone tell me?

Posted: Sat Mar 05, 2016 6:50 pm
by latinhawk
I'm not a programmer. I'm just a user who likes the pi. Most of the instructionals are geared to programmers. When a product is sent to market and it says it will do certain things I just expect them to happen or at least to tell me how to make it happen.

Re: Can anyone tell me?

Posted: Sat Mar 05, 2016 6:54 pm
by stderr
latinhawk wrote:When a product is sent to market and it says it will do certain things I just expect them to happen or at least to tell me how to make it happen.
You must be pretty new to computers. This isn't a pi thing but it is common and always has been for marketing to trumpet the best possible outcomes while engineering is still trying to figure out how to make them work. And releasing before the software can do what marketing is already marketing, since we'll just fix with an update, is so common that I'd say it's pretty much guaranteed. It's nothing worth getting angry about, it just is what it is.

Re: Can anyone tell me?

Posted: Sat Mar 05, 2016 7:04 pm
by stderr
klricks wrote:I don't see any real advantage of having a USB only boot.
That made me laugh. Let's see, let's say you don't want to plug in an sdcard but you don't mind plugging in a USB flash drive, then there would be an advantage to booting straight from the USB. This might be due to having an extra USB flash drive but not having an extra sdcard. This might be even more of a problem if you've just got in your ten pack of pi Zeros.

Furthermore, by being able to boot from the USB, you would instantly have the ability not just to edit and change sdcards from an operating system that didn't like having its boot media removed, but also bootable USB flash drives since the pi has four USB ports and only one sdcard slot.

The current difficulty with operating on sdcards on a stock pi, without a second reader, comes up all the time around here when people who might not have any other sdcard readers or only have them on Windows machines with their issues, or have them on only x86 devices making chroot a chore, try to figure out what went wrong this time. Wouldn't it be nice if they could just put in a flash drive and then boot from it and edit their sdcard to correct things?

It seems to me that obviously the ultimate solution, in addition to the above USB support, would be some sort of built in boot from network. This could avoid adding an sdcard or a USB flash device, which really saves you when you've just got in your case of 24 pi Zeros.

Re: Can anyone tell me?

Posted: Sat Mar 05, 2016 7:26 pm
by latinhawk
Like I said I'm a user. I'm not competing with you guys. I just want a product I purchased to work as advertised or someone to tell me how. I'm a retired old man.

Re: Can anyone tell me?

Posted: Sat Mar 05, 2016 8:17 pm
by DirkS
latinhawk wrote:Like I said I'm a user. I'm not competing with you guys. I just want a product I purchased to work as advertised or someone to tell me how. I'm a retired old man.
I never saw any official announcement that it was possible to boot without SD. Do you have a link?

Re: Can anyone tell me?

Posted: Sat Mar 05, 2016 8:25 pm
by latinhawk
Look at the interviews just before and after the reveal.

Re: Can anyone tell me?

Posted: Sat Mar 05, 2016 8:30 pm
by fruitoftheloom
latinhawk wrote:Look at the interviews just before and after the reveal.
It has been removed from the few blogs I had read :shock:

Re: Can anyone tell me?

Posted: Sat Mar 05, 2016 9:02 pm
by latinhawk
Look at Magpi 43 page 10 extreme right column. It's clear as day there.

Re: Can anyone tell me?

Posted: Sat Mar 05, 2016 9:16 pm
by fruitoftheloom
latinhawk wrote:Look at Magpi 43 page 10 extreme right column. It's clear as day there.

USB AND PXE NETWORK BOOT Even with the chip designed and taped out in March of last year, the Foundation had some final input for Broadcom in order to add two new features: direct USB massstorage and PXE network boot capabilities. “Gordon rewrote the boot ROM for the chip and then provided an updated boot ROM to Broadcom, saying ‘shove this in the chip, it’ll work’,” Eben laughs. “And it does! “


So though it does state further down it also states:

Eben readily admits that not all the capabilities of the new parts are going to be used at launch,


Also see viewtopic.php?f=63&t=138071

Re: Can anyone tell me?

Posted: Sat Mar 05, 2016 9:22 pm
by klricks
latinhawk wrote:Look at Magpi 43 page 10 extreme right column. It's clear as day there.
Here is the text of that:
USB AND PXE NETWORK BOOT
Even with the chip designed and
taped out in March of last year, the
Foundation had some final input
for Broadcom in order to add two
new features: direct USB mass
storage and PXE network boot
capabilities. “Gordon rewrote the
boot ROM for the chip and then
provided an updated boot ROM to
Broadcom, saying ‘shove this in
the chip, it’ll work’,” Eben laughs.
“And it does!
“The other interesting thing
about the chip is for all other ones
the implementation work was done
entirely in Cambridge; this one was a
collaboration with Broadcom’s set
top box engineering group in Aztec
West [business park] in Bristol.”
Eben readily admits that not all
the capabilities of the new parts
are going to be used at launch,
however.

Re: Can anyone tell me?

Posted: Sat Mar 05, 2016 9:30 pm
by latinhawk
It's not a problem if they have to do some more work. Just tell us clearly and what we can expect.

Re: Can anyone tell me how to boot pi 3 from a usb drive

Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2016 2:47 pm
by latinhawk
I finally recieved my Rpi 3. I updated my current sd card which is working on my pi2 but it won't start on the pi3. I get the multi color box with a small multi color square in the upper right hand corner. Of the two board lights only the red goes on. I tried with a different card withe the latest noobs but even though it starts it gives errors half way through the installation. Any new on the boot from usb? Any and all help will be appreciated.

Re: Can anyone tell me how to boot pi 3 from a usb drive

Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2016 3:25 pm
by gregeric
I attempted to test Pi3 USB direct boot - a VC4 GPIO flasher as bootcode.bin on USB stick... nadda thing.

Dunno whether that's cos the memory stick is sitting downstream on the LAN9514 hub, whether I should've tried a different USB port, whether I messed up & should try again, or whether direct USB boot is not even implemented - Eben talks of "direct USB Mass Storage" as one of the two new features in bootrom, the other being network boot. I assume direct USB Mass Storage is for flash programming on the awaited CM3, an improvement on the previous method.

On the other hand this from jdb seems to indicate it is possible.

Re: Can anyone tell me how to boot pi 3 from a usb drive

Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2016 7:50 am
by DougieLawson
gregeric wrote:On the other hand this from jdb seems to indicate it is possible.
It's possible but not yet with the current firmware and kernel.

Re: Can anyone tell me how to boot pi 3 from a usb drive

Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2016 8:00 am
by gregeric
Well, in the absence of official support just yet, I would expect to be able to wiggle a GPIO line up/down with a custom bootcode.bin on USB mass storage if booting along those lines is now in bootrom. Will have another go.

Re: Can anyone tell me how to boot pi 3 from a usb drive

Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2016 8:43 am
by FTrevorGowen
latinhawk wrote:I finally recieved my Rpi 3. I updated my current sd card which is working on my pi2 but it won't start on the pi3. I get the multi color box with a small multi color square in the upper right hand corner. Of the two board lights only the red goes on. I tried with a different card withe the latest noobs but even though it starts it gives errors half way through the installation. Any new on the boot from usb? Any and all help will be appreciated.
The "small multi color square in the upper right hand corner" is (one of) the low voltage indicator(s). Does the red PoWeR led also flicker?
What PSU are you using? Depending upon what is also plugged in to the USB ports, a P3B may need a more capable ie. 2.5A cf. 2A, PSU than a P2B because of the extra power used by the on-board BT & WiFi. If the PSU in use requires a separate USB to uUSB cable that may also cause voltage drop because of the extra current drawn.
Trev.

Re: Can anyone tell me how to boot pi 3 from a usb drive

Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2016 9:09 am
by latinhawk
Thanks. I believe it's not the ps since the same ps boots up the other sd card and the ps is 2.5a.

Re: Can anyone tell me how to boot pi 3 from a usb drive

Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2016 10:42 am
by gregeric
DougieLawson wrote:
gregeric wrote:On the other hand this from jdb seems to indicate it is possible.
It's possible but not yet with the current firmware and kernel.
Tried again on RPi3:

Booting from uSD with HH's blinker01.bin as bootcode.bin, & I can see GPIO16 going up & down.

Same uSD in a card reader in the Pi3's in any of the USB ports -> not a blink.

Add another copy as usbbootcode.bin -> nothing.

Re: Can anyone tell me how to boot pi 3 from a usb drive

Posted: Thu Mar 10, 2016 5:38 pm
by 0xFF
DougieLawson wrote:
gregeric wrote:On the other hand this from jdb seems to indicate it is possible.
It's possible but not yet with the current firmware and kernel.

So, for cardless booting from the USB/ PXE we have to wait for new firmware and kernel... on the sdcard?
I don't get it. :?:

If there is PXE code in the RPi ROM, then should be some activity on the Ethernet interface when powering device up.
At lest a DHCP and TFTP request.
The same fot USB boot.

Is there magic "pull GPIOx down" to enable USB/PXE boot ?

Re: Can anyone tell me how to boot pi 3 from a usb drive

Posted: Thu Mar 10, 2016 5:53 pm
by stderr
0xFF wrote:
DougieLawson wrote: It's possible but not yet with the current firmware and kernel.
So, for cardless booting from the USB/ PXE we have to wait for new firmware and kernel... on the sdcard?
I don't get it. :?:
The way you frame it, it doesn't make any sense.
If there is PXE code in the RPi ROM, then should be some activity on the Ethernet interface when powering device up.
At lest a DHCP and TFTP request. The same fot USB boot.
What if the reason it doesn't work now isn't that it isn't trying to do these things at the, I'm not sure what to call it because firmware is already used for the binary on the sdcard, call it firmerware, at the firmerware level. Maybe when it does try to do these things at that level, the higher level code doesn't know what to do. What I mean is that there is likely some sort of interface between the firmerware and the firmware that allows it to work, just putting the old firmware on the USB drive might not be enough.

Regarding the PXE boot, did anyone claim that is how it worked? It could boot from the network but use some other mechanism, one that required external to the firmerware support code. Now you're arguing that it isn't even looking so that's interesting if true. Does the pi3 have any onboard "ROM", say part of the firmerware, that could be actually updated? Perhaps there's some change in that area.