buzzears
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16GB microSD card insufficient?

Thu May 13, 2021 2:07 pm

Hello. I have a Pi 400 and it seems the 16GB is out of space already, after only adding a few files and photos via USB flash drive. Does this sound right? In order to add more data I will need another microSD card with much greater GB on it?

Thank you.

ejolson
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Re: 16GB microSD card insufficient?

Thu May 13, 2021 2:15 pm

buzzears wrote:
Thu May 13, 2021 2:07 pm
Hello. I have a Pi 400 and it seems the 16GB is out of space already, after only adding a few files and photos via USB flash drive. Does this sound right? In order to add more data I will need another microSD card with much greater GB on it?

Thank you.
It's my experiences is that 16GB SD cards run out of space easily while a 32GB card has much more space. My preference is to mount additional storage from a NAS, for example a QNAP TS-231 with two 6TB drives, as that is easier to back up and affords some redundancy.

klricks
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Re: 16GB microSD card insufficient?

Thu May 13, 2021 2:34 pm

buzzears wrote:
Thu May 13, 2021 2:07 pm
Hello. I have a Pi 400 and it seems the 16GB is out of space already, after only adding a few files and photos via USB flash drive. Does this sound right? In order to add more data I will need another microSD card with much greater GB on it?

Thank you.
You must have added more than a few files.... or you added a few very large files.... My system shows 9GB free space.
Unless specified otherwise my response is based on the latest and fully updated RPiOS Buster w/ Desktop OS.

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davidcoton
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Re: 16GB microSD card insufficient?

Thu May 13, 2021 2:40 pm

How did you get the OS on to the SDCard? Which OS?

It should be automatic now for the system to expand the filesystem to match the card size, but have you checked the size of the / (root) partition? At a terminal window prompt:

Code: Select all

df /
Location: 345th cell on the right of the 210th row of L2 cache

btidey
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Re: 16GB microSD card insufficient?

Thu May 13, 2021 2:43 pm

It also depends on which packaged version of the OS you installed. Some include lots of large applications which will take up lots of space unnecessarily if you don't use them (e.g. Mathematica, libre office). You can either remove stuff you don't use or start with one of the lightweight packages and only add the stuff you want.

The base OS will run OK in 8GB so a 16GB card can give quite a lot of room.

Even if you step up to 32GB or bigger cards it is still worth only including stuff you want.

buzzears
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Re: 16GB microSD card insufficient?

Thu May 13, 2021 3:33 pm

Thanks for all the replies. I am responding to all of them altogether here:

I didn't look at uninstalling programs yet because I don't want to uninstall something I shouldn't.

The result of putting in df -h (read elsewhere), and then df / into the Terminal is

Filesystem Size Used Avail Use% Mounted on
/dev/root 15G 14G 1.3M 100% /
devtmpfs 1.8G 0 1.8G 0% /dev
tmpfs 1.9G 0 1.9G 0% /dev/shm
tmpfs 1.9G 8.6M 1.9G 1% /run
tmpfs 5.0M 4.0K 5.0M 1% /run/lock
tmpfs 1.9G 0 1.9G 0% /sys/fs/cgroup
/dev/mmcblk0p1 253M 48M 205M 19% /boot
tmpfs 383M 4.0K 383M 1% /run/user/1000
/dev/sda1 7.3G 830M 6.5G 12% /media/pi/Kingston
pi@raspberrypi:~ $ df /
Filesystem 1K-blocks Used Available Use% Mounted on
/dev/root 14986672 14290796 0 100% /

(I've copied and pasted from the Terminal because when I use the PrtScn button and then try and open what is saved under /home/pi and scrot file/s, I get a 'no data' message).

Under 'Properties' in 'Pi', 5.4GiB is taken up there alone, although it doesn't look like there is that much in there to me. Perhaps I am too used to using my laptop with Linux Mint and take the amount of space I have there for granted? I am not familiar with ARM as I don't even have a smartphone (yet).

The microSD card I am using is the one that came with the Pi 400 personal computer kit, and had Raspbian OS NOOBS on it already - I didn't install any OS system onto it myself.

I was hoping to use the Pi to store things from my laptop while I install a new version of Linux Mint onto that, and then I was going to put back only what I really wanted to keep, and then clear off the rest. So longer-term I don't want to keep much stuff on either the Pi or the laptop, or on external hard drives. So I shouldn't have to use a NAS?

Perhaps what I should do is use a USB flash drive to store all my data from the laptop, and not bother adding it to the Pi, which I had hoped to do in case something went wrong with the flash drive (as can and does happen). I am on the verge of buying a larger microSD card plus USB flash drive, and just wanted to check I was going in the right direction?

Thank you very much indeed.

Thank you!

buzzears
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Re: 16GB microSD card insufficient?

Thu May 13, 2021 3:45 pm

Also - when I try and download the latest version of Firefox, I get a message saying 'There is not enough room on the disk to save'. Is this part of the same problem - a microSD card being too small problem?

I am really quite clueless and don't know when RAM is used rather than GB's, as in the case of downloading something from the internet.

fruitoftheloom
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Re: 16GB microSD card insufficient?

Thu May 13, 2021 3:55 pm

buzzears wrote:
Thu May 13, 2021 3:33 pm
Thanks for all the replies. I am responding to all of them altogether here:

I didn't look at uninstalling programs yet because I don't want to uninstall something I shouldn't.

The result of putting in df -h (read elsewhere), and then df / into the Terminal is

Filesystem Size Used Avail Use% Mounted on
/dev/root 15G 14G 1.3M 100% /
devtmpfs 1.8G 0 1.8G 0% /dev
tmpfs 1.9G 0 1.9G 0% /dev/shm
tmpfs 1.9G 8.6M 1.9G 1% /run
tmpfs 5.0M 4.0K 5.0M 1% /run/lock
tmpfs 1.9G 0 1.9G 0% /sys/fs/cgroup
/dev/mmcblk0p1 253M 48M 205M 19% /boot
tmpfs 383M 4.0K 383M 1% /run/user/1000
/dev/sda1 7.3G 830M 6.5G 12% /media/pi/Kingston
pi@raspberrypi:~ $ df /
Filesystem 1K-blocks Used Available Use% Mounted on
/dev/root 14986672 14290796 0 100% /

(I've copied and pasted from the Terminal because when I use the PrtScn button and then try and open what is saved under /home/pi and scrot file/s, I get a 'no data' message).

Under 'Properties' in 'Pi', 5.4GiB is taken up there alone, although it doesn't look like there is that much in there to me. Perhaps I am too used to using my laptop with Linux Mint and take the amount of space I have there for granted? I am not familiar with ARM as I don't even have a smartphone (yet).

The microSD card I am using is the one that came with the Pi 400 personal computer kit, and had Raspbian OS NOOBS on it already - I didn't install any OS system onto it myself.

I was hoping to use the Pi to store things from my laptop while I install a new version of Linux Mint onto that, and then I was going to put back only what I really wanted to keep, and then clear off the rest. So longer-term I don't want to keep much stuff on either the Pi or the laptop, or on external hard drives. So I shouldn't have to use a NAS?

Perhaps what I should do is use a USB flash drive to store all my data from the laptop, and not bother adding it to the Pi, which I had hoped to do in case something went wrong with the flash drive (as can and does happen). I am on the verge of buying a larger microSD card plus USB flash drive, and just wanted to check I was going in the right direction?

Thank you very much indeed.

Thank you!


NoobS is an Operating System installer / chooser and has a weird partitioning scheme, can waste much space, therefore it is no longer a recommendation:

https://github.com/raspberrypi/noobs/wi ... -explained



Pi-Imager is recommended these days to create SD Cards:

https://www.raspberrypi.org/software/



Raspberry Pi OS 32GB SD Card reasonably fresh install:

Code: Select all

df -h
Filesystem      Size  Used Avail Use% Mounted on
/dev/root        30G  3.8G   25G  14% /
devtmpfs        430M     0  430M   0% /dev
tmpfs           463M   33M  430M   8% /dev/shm
tmpfs           463M  6.3M  456M   2% /run
tmpfs           5.0M  4.0K  5.0M   1% /run/lock
tmpfs           463M     0  463M   0% /sys/fs/cgroup
/dev/mmcblk0p1  253M   48M  205M  19% /boot
tmpfs            93M  4.0K   93M   1% /run/user/1000
The information is out there....you just have to let it in.

My other Linux machines: ChromeBox
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32966393971.html
& Stone Desktop Intel CoreDuo circa 2010

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jahboater
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Re: 16GB microSD card insufficient?

Thu May 13, 2021 4:17 pm

If you look at the prices of Sandisk A1 class cards on Amazon (say), the 32GB cards are either just a few pence more than the 16GB cards, or in most cases now, 32GB is the smallest size available.

My suggestion then is to get a new 32GB or 64GB Sandisk A1 card and copy on the OS from here:
https://www.raspberrypi.org/software/

If you want to store lots of media files, then get a 64GB card - they are very cheap these days.

buzzears
Posts: 15
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Re: 16GB microSD card insufficient?

Thu May 13, 2021 4:54 pm

Sorry. My mistake. The Pi 400 I have is only around a month old and it came with the microSD card with NOOBS and the Raspberry Pi OS, not Raspbian. Does this make a difference?

I agree I should get at least 32GB. Thank you.

fruitoftheloom
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Re: 16GB microSD card insufficient?

Thu May 13, 2021 6:00 pm

buzzears wrote:
Thu May 13, 2021 4:54 pm
Sorry. My mistake. The Pi 400 I have is only around a month old and it came with the microSD card with NOOBS and the Raspberry Pi OS, not Raspbian. Does this make a difference?

I agree I should get at least 32GB. Thank you.

Please re-read my post about NoobS above......
The information is out there....you just have to let it in.

My other Linux machines: ChromeBox
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32966393971.html
& Stone Desktop Intel CoreDuo circa 2010

KeithMck
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Re: 16GB microSD card insufficient?

Thu May 13, 2021 6:46 pm

Download & install the desktop version of the O/S, (unless you want all the programming software).

16/32GB is adequate for a small desktop system, but if you have a need for music/media files, you are better off using an external HDD for storage, which can be used on both systems, as it would only contain your data files.

(Personally, I use 64GB cards & the desktop version, (or a HDD, or an SSD), but I like to keep music & some videos on it.)

buzzears
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Re: 16GB microSD card insufficient?

Thu May 13, 2021 7:36 pm

I've re-read, fruitoftheloom, much of it going over my head, but the gist is that I can't alter the microSD card I have so I have to buy another one (with 32GB) without NOOBS and add the Pi OS myself, so that it is/can be partitioned more usefully?

In the software link you both include, there are three options for downloads: 1 using Pi imager, 2 installing manually, and 3 for desktop for PC or Mac. Are you saying I need to choose option 3?

Sorry if I am being slow.

So, in order, I use a new blank microSD card via a card reader in my laptop, after I have downloaded option 3, and then insert the microSD card into the Pi and I should have a Raspberry Pi operating system with more space and good partitioning?

fruitoftheloom
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Re: 16GB microSD card insufficient?

Fri May 14, 2021 4:32 am

buzzears wrote:
Thu May 13, 2021 7:36 pm
I've re-read, fruitoftheloom, much of it going over my head, but the gist is that I can't alter the microSD card I have so I have to buy another one (with 32GB) without NOOBS and add the Pi OS myself, so that it is/can be partitioned more usefully?

In the software link you both include, there are three options for downloads: 1 using Pi imager, 2 installing manually, and 3 for desktop for PC or Mac. Are you saying I need to choose option 3?

Sorry if I am being slow.

So, in order, I use a new blank microSD card via a card reader in my laptop, after I have downloaded option 3, and then insert the microSD card into the Pi and I should have a Raspberry Pi operating system with more space and good partitioning?


Option 1

https://projects.raspberrypi.org/en/pro ... tting-up/2


You could always re-use your existing SD Card, after backing up anything you wish to save.
The information is out there....you just have to let it in.

My other Linux machines: ChromeBox
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32966393971.html
& Stone Desktop Intel CoreDuo circa 2010

KeithMck
Posts: 240
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Re: 16GB microSD card insufficient?

Fri May 14, 2021 8:46 am

The version we are recommending you install is the one 'with desktop'.

Raspberry Pi OS with desktop

Release date: March 4th 2021
Kernel version: 5.10
Size: 1,175MB

https://www.raspberrypi.org/software/op ... -os-32-bit

buzzears
Posts: 15
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Re: 16GB microSD card insufficient?

Fri May 14, 2021 9:32 am

Many thanks for your help, fruitoftheloom and KeithMcK

fruitoftheloom, you say to use the Pi Imager, and KeithMcK you say to set up manually choosing the Desktop option.

Last night I ordered a new microSD card plus a USB - SD card reader so that I can add installation to the SD card via my old laptop that only has USB 2 ports (I hope I ordered the right thing?).

I might try and use my current card with the Imager and the new card with manual set up, and see if there's any difference between the two.

(I also have a larger flash drive on the way for backing up, plus a book about conquering the command line).

In the Pi Beginners guide I got with my Pi, it says the CPU is 64-bit, so I am confused about you both pointing me towards 32-bit, and also why when I first installed Firefox onto my Pi it automatically chose 32-bit as well.

I would be grateful for further clarification about the CPU (or/and anything else), if you are so willing?

Thanks again.

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davidcoton
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Re: 16GB microSD card insufficient?

Fri May 14, 2021 9:41 am

buzzears wrote:
Fri May 14, 2021 9:32 am
Many thanks for your help, fruitoftheloom and KeithMcK

fruitoftheloom, you say to use the Pi Imager, and KeithMcK you say to set up manually choosing the Desktop option.

Last night I ordered a new microSD card plus a USB - SD card reader so that I can add installation to the SD card via my old laptop that only has USB 2 ports (I hope I ordered the right thing?).

I might try and use my current card with the Imager and the new card with manual set up, and see if there's any difference between the two.

(I also have a larger flash drive on the way for backing up, plus a book about conquering the command line).

In the Pi Beginners guide I got with my Pi, it says the CPU is 64-bit, so I am confused about you both pointing me towards 32-bit, and also why when I first installed Firefox onto my Pi it automatically chose 32-bit as well.

I would be grateful for further clarification about the CPU (or/and anything else), if you are so willing?

Thanks again.
You should use Pi Imager, running on a desktop (or possibly laptop) PC running Win, Linux or Mac, to download the image and install it on the SDCard. Make sure the PC you use has a SDHC or preferably SDXC compatible card slot.

"Raspberry Pi OS with desktop" refers to the version of the OS that you need to download and use. Nothing to do with how to install it.

The Pi4 CPU is indeed 64-bit, but it is also 32-bit compatible. The current mainline version of Raspberry Pi OS is 32-bit, there is a 64-bit version in beta test, but it is not mainstream yet (some bits are known not to wore optimally).
Location: 345th cell on the right of the 210th row of L2 cache

fruitoftheloom
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Re: 16GB microSD card insufficient?

Fri May 14, 2021 1:00 pm

buzzears wrote:
Fri May 14, 2021 9:32 am
Many thanks for your help, fruitoftheloom and KeithMcK

fruitoftheloom, you say to use the Pi Imager, and KeithMcK you say to set up manually choosing the Desktop option.

Last night I ordered a new microSD card plus a USB - SD card reader so that I can add installation to the SD card via my old laptop that only has USB 2 ports (I hope I ordered the right thing?).

I might try and use my current card with the Imager and the new card with manual set up, and see if there's any difference between the two.

(I also have a larger flash drive on the way for backing up, plus a book about conquering the command line).

In the Pi Beginners guide I got with my Pi, it says the CPU is 64-bit, so I am confused about you both pointing me towards 32-bit, and also why when I first installed Firefox onto my Pi it automatically chose 32-bit as well.

I would be grateful for further clarification about the CPU (or/and anything else), if you are so willing?

Thanks again.

As long as you do not use NoobS , there is no difference in installing via Pi-Imager or undertaking manual creation of bootable SD Card of the same version of Raspberry Pi Operating System.


Regards ARM 64bit, all Raspberry Pi SBC since the 2B v1.2 have been so, but RPF / RPT decided for backwards compatibility to only offer 32bit ARMHF Operating System.
The information is out there....you just have to let it in.

My other Linux machines: ChromeBox
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32966393971.html
& Stone Desktop Intel CoreDuo circa 2010

buzzears
Posts: 15
Joined: Thu Apr 29, 2021 2:44 pm

Re: 16GB microSD card insufficient?

Fri May 14, 2021 8:11 pm

Thank you for the clarification, everyone. My stuff arrives tomorrow so I will see how I get on this weekend, and let you know how I get on. Have a lovely evening.

buzzears
Posts: 15
Joined: Thu Apr 29, 2021 2:44 pm

Re: 16GB microSD card insufficient?

Sat May 15, 2021 4:45 pm

Gosh golly, I did it. I can't tell you how, as I just followed through on all the prompts while praying.

I used my old laptop with Linux Mint Cinnamon with the new 32GB A1 SanDisk and new microSD - USB card-reader I received in the post today.

First, I got an error message when trying to download the Raspberry Pi Imager, so I tried doing it manually instead. This resulted in a download that took several minutes, followed by having to extract a file. I backed up all my personal data from my laptop at this point in case something went wrong, using the new 32GB flash drive also received today. I then extracted the file and just followed through on all the prompts, not feeling very confident partly because of name changes, such as the 32GB USB suddenly being shown as two different removable devices under unfamiliar names etc.

After that seemed to be done, in the Pi 400 keyboard I swapped the old SD card with the new one, which showed I had 24.8GiB free storage in Filesystem Root, 29GiB total. In the set-up Wizard I skipped the updates and installs as I didn't want to risk adding unnecessary stuff and wasting storage.

I then inserted the 32GB flash drive into the Pi and copied and pasted all that I put in there today to the Pi home folder, followed by installing LibreOffice (via Preferences and Recommended Software), so that I could open and read my documents. After all that I have 16GB free space.

Awesome. Thank you!

If I am allowed to ask a couple more questions that have come up for me out of this topic, these are:
- Where can I see the partitions?
- Where do I go to ask for updates, or is this done automatically, periodically?

Although I am likely a perpertual newbie, I am used to Linux Mint and being able to look at things quite easily there, such as partitions. But I don't see a way to do the same in Raspberry Pi? Access generally seems very limited on the Pi compared to Linux Mint. Or perhaps it's not so much access, as being displayed in a less user-involved way?

Thank you, everyone who helped. Very much appreciated, and I have learned about something I understand now is quite basic, but clearly very useful.

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jahboater
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Re: 16GB microSD card insufficient?

Sat May 15, 2021 4:54 pm

With time you will get used to flashing new OS images onto SD cards.
Like you, I use Linux Mint, and (for me), the process is so trivial that its not worth installing a special tool.
I simply unzip the .zip file with "unzip", and copy the .img file to the SD card using, believe it or not, just the normal "cp" command.
It is only a file copy.
buzzears wrote:
Sat May 15, 2021 4:45 pm
If I am allowed to ask a couple more questions that have come up for me out of this topic, these are:
- Where can I see the partitions?
You can see all mounted partitions with: df, mount, the file /proc/mounts, and likely others.
There are editors such as "parted" for the rest.
buzzears wrote:
Sat May 15, 2021 4:45 pm
- Where do I go to ask for updates, or is this done automatically, periodically?
It is your choice when to update. I do this once a week or so:

Code: Select all

sudo apt update -y && sudo apt full-upgrade -y && sudo apt autoremove -y
Others will differ. See "man apt" for info.
If you wished, you could set up a cron job to run it periodically.
I personally check the freshly updated stuff and if anything is memory resident (new kernel, systemd, C library etc), I do a reboot.
In "my" experience, these updates don't break things.
buzzears wrote:
Sat May 15, 2021 4:45 pm
Although I am likely a perpertual newbie, I am used to Linux Mint and being able to look at things quite easily there, such as partitions. But I don't see a way to do the same in Raspberry Pi? Access generally seems very limited on the Pi compared to Linux Mint. Or perhaps it's not so much access, as being displayed in a less user-involved way?
Raspberry Pi OS is based on Debian, so you should find much that is familiar.

buzzears
Posts: 15
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Re: 16GB microSD card insufficient?

Sat May 15, 2021 8:41 pm

Thank you, Jahboater. Where does one learn more about all of this stuff anyway? I don't want to be a professional or any kind of expert, just to know how to get around and identify and fix problems. Once I have a new version of Linux Mint installed (another thing to figure out), I hope to use my laptop to explore that much more.

I used the command you gave to update the Pi, and written that out on a sticky note so I can use it regularly from now on, thank you.

Now what I want to do is figure out why I can't seem to download Firefox when I could on the SD card that came with the Pi, followed by working out if I can enable DRM content on Channel 4. Google Chrome didn't work for accessing content on Channel 4 either, even after following the directions successfully.

But maybe that's another post?

Thanks again!

KeithMck
Posts: 240
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Re: 16GB microSD card insufficient?

Sun May 16, 2021 8:41 am

How do you learn?

Often by trial & error, or else from manuals.

Where to get information about Debian?

https://www.debian.org/doc/user-manuals

How to install Firefox on RPi?

sudo apt-get install firefox-esr

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jahboater
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Re: 16GB microSD card insufficient?

Sun May 16, 2021 9:26 am

buzzears wrote:
Sat May 15, 2021 8:41 pm
Where does one learn more about all of this stuff anyway?
These days - google!

Use the apropos command or "man -k" to search the manual page index's for keywords.
See "man apropos" (man -k is the same thing).

Ask questions on forums like this when you get stuck.

On the Pi, the main disk is a tiny, very cheap, and easily changed SD card.
This means that trial and error is almost risk free.
Make up two or three SD cards with a working system on, and you can experiment on one of the cards.
If you really mess up and the Pi wont boot (unlikely) or you get in a pickle you cant fix, then you have a spare card.
Just re-flash the failed system.

Always be wary of using sudo or root.
Stop and think "why is extra privilege needed to do this"?
It may be simply privacy (the Pi has a multi-user OS), or it could be a warning that a mistake will compromise the system.

buzzears
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Re: 16GB microSD card insufficient?

Sun May 16, 2021 12:31 pm

Thank you, KeithMcK. I spotted the sudo apt-get install firefox-esr command on another post here, almost immediately after I last posted here, and that worked a charm. Except that the version of Firefox that got installed does not have the 'Widevine Content Decryption Module provided by Google Inc.', and the DRM is not mentioned anywhere, so I am unable to access Channel 4 on my Pi. It looks like there is a bug about that on the version that got installed, so I am confused that I wasn't given a newer/better version. I have posted a question about it to the Firefox community but no response so far. Maybe you know?

Jahboater - thank you for your excellent advice. I like the idea of having a card I can explore on, and not have to worry about breaking anything. That's at least partly what I got the Pi for, after all. Noted about the sudo or root command. I have started working through Conquer the Command Line book, and just now have Linux Mint Essentials opened in front of me in the hope I can install a fresh version of Mint on my laptop (I am first trying to find out how to download it from Linux and not Windows), so bit by bit, I will start to be a bit less clueless (me-hopes!).

Very many thanks again.

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