seanspotatobusiness
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Access denied on SHH (password is correct, user is pi)

Sun Jun 17, 2018 1:06 am

I know that my password is correct because I tested it by installing a game from the repository with the GUI. It accepted my password then.

SHH is enabled in "Raspberry Pi Configuration".
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DougieLawson
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Re: Access denied on SHH (password is correct, user is pi)

Sun Jun 17, 2018 9:35 am

Does your password include any special characters?
Did you re-configure your keyboard to your local layout (it defaults to UK)?
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n67
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Re: Access denied on SHH (password is correct, user is pi)

Sun Jun 17, 2018 12:38 pm

Somebody should write a Pi utility that does:

1) Uses the Internet to figure out where the user is. This is a little creepy to think about, but the fact is that the data is there and lots of programs use it. Given your IP address, they know where you are to within, I think, a 6 mile radius.

2) Configure all the locale stuff (including the keyboard) automatically.

Make this part of Raspi-config.

Better yet, make it run automatically, like, e.g., the "resize FS" stuff does.
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pfletch101
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Re: Access denied on SHH (password is correct, user is pi)

Sun Jun 17, 2018 3:48 pm

n67 wrote:
Sun Jun 17, 2018 12:38 pm
Somebody should write a Pi utility that does:

1) Uses the Internet to figure out where the user is. This is a little creepy to think about, but the fact is that the data is there and lots of programs use it. Given your IP address, they know where you are to within, I think, a 6 mile radius.

2) Configure all the locale stuff (including the keyboard) automatically.

Make this part of Raspi-config.

Better yet, make it run automatically, like, e.g., the "resize FS" stuff does.
What about people who may want to use (e.g.) a UK keyboard (perhaps one which they happen to have around), even though they live in the US, or vice versa? What about countries with more than one 'official language'? How difficult is it really to set up your preferences as you want them during install?

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thagrol
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Re: Access denied on SHH (password is correct, user is pi)

Sun Jun 17, 2018 4:07 pm

n67 wrote:
Sun Jun 17, 2018 12:38 pm
Somebody should write a Pi utility that does:

1) Uses the Internet to figure out where the user is. This is a little creepy to think about, but the fact is that the data is there and lots of programs use it. Given your IP address, they know where you are to within, I think, a 6 mile radius.

2) Configure all the locale stuff (including the keyboard) automatically.

Make this part of Raspi-config.

Better yet, make it run automatically, like, e.g., the "resize FS" stuff does.
Whenever I see "somebody should..." I always think "You're somebody, what's stopping you?"
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n67
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Re: Access denied on SHH (password is correct, user is pi)

Sun Jun 17, 2018 4:32 pm

What about people who may want to use (e.g.) a UK keyboard (perhaps one which they happen to have around), even though they live in the US, or vice versa? What about countries with more than one 'official language'? How difficult is it really to set up your preferences as you want them during install?
Those people are certainly capable of overriding (changing) it themselves.

This would be one-time thing - not an auto-run on every boot or whatever.

In any case, it is certainly better than just defaulting to UK and causing all these support threads...`
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The Traveler
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Re: Access denied on SHH (password is correct, user is pi)

Sun Jun 17, 2018 4:44 pm

The last time folks let their software do everything for them we ended up with Windows ... ;)
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n67
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Re: Access denied on SHH (password is correct, user is pi)

Sun Jun 17, 2018 5:58 pm

The Traveler wrote:
Sun Jun 17, 2018 4:44 pm
The last time folks let their software do everything for them we ended up with Windows ... ;)
Or Ubuntu (the Linux version of Windows...)

I'm not a big fan of Ubuntu, but I did install it on a (not Pi) machine recently, and I'm pretty sure it does exactly what I'm suggesting here. Figures out where you are and presets all the locale stuff for you.
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pfletch101
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Re: Access denied on SHH (password is correct, user is pi)

Sun Jun 17, 2018 8:58 pm

The Traveler wrote:
Sun Jun 17, 2018 4:44 pm
The last time folks let their software do everything for them we ended up with Windows ... ;)
No, that would be the (various) Mac machines! ;) Windows (10, at least) makes it very easy for the user to select these options at first boot.

n67
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Re: Access denied on SHH (password is correct, user is pi)

Sun Jun 17, 2018 10:19 pm

No, that would be the (various) Mac machines! ;) Windows (10, at least) makes it very easy for the user to select these options at first boot.
That is exactly my point. A basic problem with the way Raspbian is - and has been from the start - is the lack of any kind of "install" program. This is a direct result of its being distributed as a "ready-to-go" image, rather than as a thing to be "installed". The fact that it is distributed as "ready-to-go" makes people think that, surprise! surprise!, it is ready-to-go.

What I would like to see - and which we will see; it's just a matter of time - is a "first boot" script (a "Wizard" if you will) that takes you through the "must-set" options in raspi-config. Off the top of my head, this would include:

1) Turning on ssh (and, possibly, setting up wifi)
2) Changing the hostname
3) Setting all the locale related stuff (i.e., that which is under discussion in this thread)
4) Changing the password (i.e., for the "pi" user)
5) Figuring out if overscan should be disabled or not (in config.txt)

And probably a few others. Every time I set up a system, I promise myself to make a list of all of the "must do" raspi-config steps. I have yet to keep that promise...

P.S. Re: your specific snark. Not much difference between Mac and Windows in this regard. They both do pretty much the same thing(s).
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thagrol
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Re: Access denied on SHH (password is correct, user is pi)

Sun Jun 17, 2018 10:35 pm

n67 wrote:
Sun Jun 17, 2018 10:19 pm
What I would like to see - and which we will see; it's just a matter of time - is a "first boot" script (a "Wizard" if you will) that takes you through the "must-set" options in raspi-config.
And if the user is running their Pi headless? Or there's no internet connection? (about the only way you can do what you're suggesting for locale is geo-ip lookups)

Do you block all logins until your magic tool has run? What about non-raspbian OS?

There ain't no magic bullet. What works for one subset of users will annoy another and break things for a third. It's not unreasonable to expect the user to perform local configuration tasks after first boot.

If you have a strong need for such a tool, rather than whinging on the forums, why not write it yourself? The foundation has limited time and resources, plus linux is open source so there is very little stopping you.

We're going off topic. Might be an idea for the mods to lock this thread.
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n67
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Re: Access denied on SHH (password is correct, user is pi)

Sun Jun 17, 2018 11:13 pm

And if the user is running their Pi headless? Or there's no internet connection? (about the only way you can do what you're suggesting for locale is geo-ip lookups)

Do you block all logins until your magic tool has run? What about non-raspbian OS?
This is all b***C*** nonsense.

I'm not suggesting anything that is going to make anyone's life more difficult. These are all strawman arguments.

Most mainline Linux distros do it this way. It's can't be that big of a deal.

Oh, and as to the "Well, why not do it yourself, soldier?" schtick. I bet you were in the army. This is army-think.

But I will answer. I don't need it for myself. I've already solved all of these problems. That's the fundamental thing that the "Why don't you do it yourself?" people ignore.

Further, if I (or you or anyone else on this board or elsewhere who lacks official standing) did write such a thing, it wouldn't get any traction. It wouldn't go anywhere. It wouldn't accomplish anything. And, yes, I know all the things that people will say in response to that - all the usual FOSS stuff. They sound good in theory, but the real world doesn't work that way.

Anyway, as I said, it will happen. Just a question of when. I'd bet that RPF already has something like this on the drawing board. Just a matter of time until they feel it is ready to release.
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thagrol
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Re: Access denied on SHH (password is correct, user is pi)

Mon Jun 18, 2018 11:32 am

I really wasn't going to respond further on this as I'd started feeding the troll

But there are some points I do feel I have to respond to.
n67 wrote:
Sun Jun 17, 2018 11:13 pm
And if the user is running their Pi headless? Or there's no internet connection? (about the only way you can do what you're suggesting for locale is geo-ip lookups)

Do you block all logins until your magic tool has run? What about non-raspbian OS?
This is all b***C*** nonsense.
Not at all. You've obviously no experience in impact assesment , risk assessment or QA.
I'm not suggesting anything that is going to make anyone's life more difficult. These are all strawman arguments.
I never said you were. My point was that changes of the nature you sugest have impact for everyone and for some will be negatiive.
Most mainline Linux distros do it this way. It's can't be that big of a deal.
Most mianline installers work in a completely different way. This has been discussed ad naseum elsewhere on the forum.
Oh, and as to the "Well, why not do it yourself, soldier?" schtick. I bet you were in the army. This is army-think.
Nope. Nor any of the other services. It's called stepping up, "see a need, fill a need", and "pay it forward"
But I will answer. I don't need it for myself. I've already solved all of these problems. That's the fundamental thing that the "Why don't you do it yourself?" people ignore.
I'm not ignoring that possibility, rather assuming that if you had the solution you would have already shared it. But it seems that having a soultion, you'd rather keep it to yourself and whinge about things. A somewhat selfish attitude.
Further, if I (or you or anyone else on this board or elsewhere who lacks official standing) did write such a thing, it wouldn't get any traction. It wouldn't go anywhere. It wouldn't accomplish anything. And, yes, I know all the things that people will say in response to that - all the usual FOSS stuff. They sound good in theory, but the real world doesn't work that way.
Clearly that isn't true. If it was, FOSS would be as closed as Mac OS and WIndows. We wouldn't have raspbian at all let alone all the community created stuff that comes with it or is in the repositories.
Anyway, as I said, it will happen. Just a question of when. I'd bet that RPF already has something like this on the drawing board. Just a matter of time until they feel it is ready to release.
It has already been stated elsewhere on this forum that the RPF has no intention of adding further first boot autorun features so don't hold your breath. Yes, I know that counters part of my argument, but there is nothing stopping you releasing your own raspbian derived distro

And before you ask, I'm not going to do so because, 1. I don't see this as the big problem that you clearly do, and 2. I don't see a solution that won't introduce further problems.
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seanspotatobusiness
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Re: Access denied on SHH (password is correct, user is pi)

Mon Jun 18, 2018 8:39 pm

DougieLawson wrote:
Sun Jun 17, 2018 9:35 am
Does your password include any special characters?
Did you re-configure your keyboard to your local layout (it defaults to UK)?
I'm from the UK and my password does include a special character but that character is mapped correctly (I guess since I live in the UK).

I've used SSH successfully in the past.

Edit: nevermind... it was the wrong device... :S sorry.



Incidentally I think that automatically detecting someone's locale is a good idea and not adding features because someone somewhere might be annoyed isn't a good argument against but I don't care too much since I happen to live in the UK anyway.
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Re: Access denied on SHH (password is correct, user is pi)

Mon Jun 18, 2018 8:44 pm

Easiest way to fix a broken password is to boot to an emergency root shell.

If NOOBS use the recovery system to add systemd.unit=rescue.target to /boot/cmdline
If PINN use the PINN password reset option in the PINN recovery system. No mucking about needed.
If plain Raspbian, pull the card, edit F:\cmdline.txt on a Windows system with Notepad++ to add systemd.unit=rescue.target
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thagrol
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Re: Access denied on SHH (password is correct, user is pi)

Mon Jun 18, 2018 11:52 pm

seanspotatobusiness wrote:
Mon Jun 18, 2018 8:39 pm
Incidentally I think that automatically detecting someone's locale is a good idea and not adding features because someone somewhere might be annoyed isn't a good argument against but I don't care too much since I happen to live in the UK anyway.
Unfortunately I don't believe there is an easy, accurate way of doing so that doesn't involve input from the user though I'm ready to be corrected. You can't ask the keyboard, a look up of location based on external IP address isn't possible without an active internet connection and isn't perfectly accurate, plus all the edge cases: VPN, temporarily overseas, no keyboard connected, keyboard doesn't match the locale, locale has more than one language/keyboard layout etc.

When you look even a litle deeper (in general not specificaly for this case) into what's being asked it often is not as simple as it first seems.

As to "not adding features because someone somewhere might be annoyed isn't a good argument against " that depends and adding a feature because I need it can be an equally poor argument.

With any feature change to something with as large an installed base as the raspberry pi a proper impact assessment needs to be done first. The maintainers need to decide whether the percentage of users that A. benefit, B. see no difference, and C. experience breakages balances out. Then there's the devlopment effort involved.

Going back on topic: glad you got things sorted.
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