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Why are Raspberry Pi still using Java 8 when Java 11 is available?

Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2019 1:26 pm
by DanielMartensson
Hello!

I wonder why Raspberry Pi is still using old Java 8 for ARM 32-bit and 64-bit, when Java 11 for ARM 32-bit and 64-bit is now available from Azul Systems?

I'm using Pi4J to control the GPIO pins from web applications(Primefaces + Tomcat) and I'm switching now from Java 8 to Java 11.

https://www.azul.com/downloads/zulu-embedded/

Re: Why are Raspberry Pi still using Java 8 when Java 11 is available?

Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2019 5:50 pm
by fruitoftheloom
DanielMartensson wrote:
Fri Feb 01, 2019 1:26 pm
Hello!

I wonder why Raspberry Pi is still using old Java 8 for ARM 32-bit and 64-bit, when Java 11 for ARM 32-bit and 64-bit is now available from Azul Systems?

I'm using Pi4J to control the GPIO pins from web applications(Primefaces + Tomcat) and I'm switching now from Java 8 to Java 11.

https://www.azul.com/downloads/zulu-embedded/

OpenJDK11 will be in Buster release.

Debian, which Raspbian is a fork, are very conservative regards updating packages.

Re: Why are Raspberry Pi still using Java 8 when Java 11 is available?

Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2019 6:53 pm
by HawaiianPi
DanielMartensson wrote:
Fri Feb 01, 2019 1:26 pm
... when Java 11 for ARM 32-bit and 64-bit is now available from Azul Systems?
Well there's that. Raspbian includes Oracle Java. They don't have a license to distribute anything from Azul Systems. Of course that doesn't explain why they are using an ancient version of Oracle Java 8 (1.8.0_65 is included, current version is 1.8.0_201).

Re: Why are Raspberry Pi still using Java 8 when Java 11 is available?

Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2019 8:09 am
by ShiftPlusOne
HawaiianPi wrote: They don't have a license to distribute anything from Azul Systems.
Spot on
HawaiianPi wrote: Of course that doesn't explain why they are using an ancient version of Oracle Java 8 (1.8.0_65 is included, current version is 1.8.0_201).
It's a bit of a pain to package and I don't keep track of their releases or which releases are worth the effort. Once in a while somebody will ask for a newer version of Java and I'll grab the latest version, but that doesn't happen very often.

It's probably not going to be updated anymore and Buster will only have OpenJDK. Unless there's some reason to ship newer versions of Oracle Java 8 & 9?

Re: Why are Raspberry Pi still using Java 8 when Java 11 is available?

Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2019 10:54 am
by DanielMartensson
fruitoftheloom wrote:
Fri Feb 01, 2019 5:50 pm
DanielMartensson wrote:
Fri Feb 01, 2019 1:26 pm
Hello!

I wonder why Raspberry Pi is still using old Java 8 for ARM 32-bit and 64-bit, when Java 11 for ARM 32-bit and 64-bit is now available from Azul Systems?

I'm using Pi4J to control the GPIO pins from web applications(Primefaces + Tomcat) and I'm switching now from Java 8 to Java 11.

https://www.azul.com/downloads/zulu-embedded/

OpenJDK11 will be in Buster release.

Debian, which Raspbian is a fork, are very conservative regards updating packages.
When will Raspberry Pi buster be released?

Re: Why are Raspberry Pi still using Java 8 when Java 11 is available?

Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2019 11:09 am
by ShiftPlusOne
DanielMartensson wrote:
Mon Feb 04, 2019 10:54 am
fruitoftheloom wrote:
Fri Feb 01, 2019 5:50 pm
DanielMartensson wrote:
Fri Feb 01, 2019 1:26 pm
Hello!

I wonder why Raspberry Pi is still using old Java 8 for ARM 32-bit and 64-bit, when Java 11 for ARM 32-bit and 64-bit is now available from Azul Systems?

I'm using Pi4J to control the GPIO pins from web applications(Primefaces + Tomcat) and I'm switching now from Java 8 to Java 11.

https://www.azul.com/downloads/zulu-embedded/

OpenJDK11 will be in Buster release.

Debian, which Raspbian is a fork, are very conservative regards updating packages.
When will Raspberry Pi buster be released?
We're aiming to release for whenever Debian marks it stable, but in the past we've had a few months lag. Expecting it some time around the middle of the year.

Re: Why are Raspberry Pi still using Java 8 when Java 11 is available?

Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2019 6:06 pm
by HawaiianPi
ShiftPlusOne wrote:
Mon Feb 04, 2019 8:09 am
It's a bit of a pain to package and I don't keep track of their releases or which releases are worth the effort. Once in a while somebody will ask for a newer version of Java and I'll grab the latest version, but that doesn't happen very often.
The PPA from webupd8team I use updates Java when you update Raspbian. I've posted about it in the Java forums a few times.
Here's one of my posts: https://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/view ... 0#p1400092

It's basically an installer script. Probably wouldn't bee too difficult to make something similar, or you could look into using the webupd8tem PPA.

It's probably not going to be updated anymore and Buster will only have OpenJDK. Unless there's some reason to ship newer versions of Oracle Java 8 & 9?
In my experience, Oracle java is faster and more stable than OpenJDK. As far as not being updated any more, Oracle has been saying that for the last ten updates or so (the 1.8.0_201 update was very recent). ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Haven't messed much with newer versions, because I mainly use Java for Minecraft, and Optifine still uses Java 8.

Re: Why are Raspberry Pi still using Java 8 when Java 11 is available?

Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2019 6:17 pm
by ShiftPlusOne
HawaiianPi wrote: It's basically an installer script. Probably wouldn't bee too difficult to make something similar, or you could look into using the webupd8tem PPA.
It's not quite as bad as I made it seem, but it's still a hassle. There's a script which takes oracle's tarballs and spits out packages, which I'd prefer to relying on third parties. If people want it, I can set up a cronjob to look out for updates, package it up and put it in the repo as necessary. But again, I don't know if it's worth it. Seems like people who absolutely must have have the latest jre 8 can use the PPA. Or are they typically security updates which are actually important?
HawaiianPi wrote:
Mon Feb 04, 2019 6:06 pm
In my experience, Oracle java is faster and more stable than OpenJDK. As far as not being updated any more, Oracle has been saying that for the last ten updates or so (the 1.8.0_201 update was very recent). ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Haven't messed much with newer versions, because I mainly use Java for Minecraft, and Optifine still uses Java 8.
From Oracle/OpenJDK 11, they're almost identical.

https://blogs.oracle.com/java-platform- ... -and-later

Re: Why are Raspberry Pi still using Java 8 when Java 11 is available?

Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2019 3:04 pm
by Balin
DanielMartensson wrote:
Fri Feb 01, 2019 1:26 pm
Hello!

I wonder why Raspberry Pi is still using old Java 8 for ARM 32-bit and 64-bit, when Java 11 for ARM 32-bit and 64-bit is now available from Azul Systems?

I'm using Pi4J to control the GPIO pins from web applications(Primefaces + Tomcat) and I'm switching now from Java 8 to Java 11.

https://www.azul.com/downloads/zulu-embedded/
Why not take the Azul package and run the Tomcat with that? I usually do that, having dropped Oracle Java long since due to license issues. Just configure $JAVA_HOME for the Tomcat.

Re: Why are Raspberry Pi still using Java 8 when Java 11 is available?

Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2019 9:24 pm
by DougieLawson
The question should be "why does DebIan never upgrade a release except at at version change?"

Buster will have newer versions of lots of packages.

It's the DebIan way and Raspbian mostly follows their dogma.

Re: Why are Raspberry Pi still using Java 8 when Java 11 is available?

Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2019 10:16 pm
by fruitoftheloom
Balin wrote:
Wed Feb 20, 2019 3:04 pm
DanielMartensson wrote:
Fri Feb 01, 2019 1:26 pm
Hello!

I wonder why Raspberry Pi is still using old Java 8 for ARM 32-bit and 64-bit, when Java 11 for ARM 32-bit and 64-bit is now available from Azul Systems?

I'm using Pi4J to control the GPIO pins from web applications(Primefaces + Tomcat) and I'm switching now from Java 8 to Java 11.

https://www.azul.com/downloads/zulu-embedded/
Why not take the Azul package and run the Tomcat with that? I usually do that, having dropped Oracle Java long since due to license issues. Just configure $JAVA_HOME for the Tomcat.

ArchLinuxArm has version 11.02 of jre-openjdk & jdk-openjdk

Re: Why are Raspberry Pi still using Java 8 when Java 11 is available?

Posted: Sat Feb 23, 2019 7:56 am
by Heater
Dougie,
The question should be "why does DebIan never upgrade a release except at at version change?"
Buster will have newer versions of lots of packages.
So why don't you answer the question?
It's the DebIan way and Raspbian mostly follows their dogma.
"Dogma" is not the answer. Or at least it implies it because of some unfounded religious/philosophical opinion.

I believe the answer is more practical.

Debian attempts to offer a "stable" system. That does not just mean "stable" as in not crashing or having bugs but stable as in not changing all the time and breaking users setups.

To that end versions of all kind of programs can be a bit behind. Adopting the latest shiny thing every week may introduce differences in behavior or configuration that would break users systems if installed with an apt upgrade.

As a practical matter, all these version update take time for someone to package up and then test. Packages don't just have to work, they have to not break dependent packages.

Re: Why are Raspberry Pi still using Java 8 when Java 11 is available?

Posted: Sat Feb 23, 2019 8:26 am
by jahboater
Gentoo64 packages seem up to date.
It even includes GCC 8.2

https://github.com/sakaki-/gentoo-on-rpi3-64bit

Re: Why are Raspberry Pi still using Java 8 when Java 11 is available?

Posted: Sat Feb 23, 2019 8:56 am
by fruitoftheloom
jahboater wrote:
Sat Feb 23, 2019 8:26 am
Gentoo64 packages seem up to date.
It even includes GCC 8.2

https://github.com/sakaki-/gentoo-on-rpi3-64bit

ArchLinuxArm also has GCC 8.2 ;)

Re: Why are Raspberry Pi still using Java 8 when Java 11 is available?

Posted: Mon Feb 25, 2019 1:43 pm
by dpslwk
ShiftPlusOne wrote:
Mon Feb 04, 2019 8:09 am
It's probably not going to be updated anymore and Buster will only have OpenJDK. Unless there's some reason to ship newer versions of Oracle Java 8 & 9?
An update to 1.8.0_202 would be good as there a quite a few people running UniFi controller of a pi that are having issues

https://community.ubnt.com/t5/UniFi-Wir ... -p/2668805

Re: Why are Raspberry Pi still using Java 8 when Java 11 is available?

Posted: Mon Feb 25, 2019 6:36 pm
by ShiftPlusOne
dpslwk wrote:
Mon Feb 25, 2019 1:43 pm
ShiftPlusOne wrote:
Mon Feb 04, 2019 8:09 am
It's probably not going to be updated anymore and Buster will only have OpenJDK. Unless there's some reason to ship newer versions of Oracle Java 8 & 9?
An update to 1.8.0_202 would be good as there a quite a few people running UniFi controller of a pi that are having issues

https://community.ubnt.com/t5/UniFi-Wir ... -p/2668805
Thanks for the heads up and the link

Re: Why are Raspberry Pi still using Java 8 when Java 11 is available?

Posted: Mon Feb 25, 2019 10:26 pm
by HawaiianPi
dpslwk wrote:
Mon Feb 25, 2019 1:43 pm
An update to 1.8.0_202 would be good as there a quite a few people running UniFi controller of a pi that are having issues
Try the webupd8team PPA for keeping Oracle Java 8 up-to-date (from my post above).
HawaiianPi wrote:
Mon Feb 04, 2019 6:06 pm
The PPA from webupd8team I use updates Java when you update Raspbian. I've posted about it in the Java forums a few times.
Here's one of my posts: https://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/view ... 0#p1400092

Re: Why are Raspberry Pi still using Java 8 when Java 11 is available?

Posted: Sat Apr 27, 2019 9:59 am
by alnaseh
Probably java 8 will remain the main jdk for quite long time. Pi0 is armv6 and java 8 is the last working version on this platform.

Re: Why are Raspberry Pi still using Java 8 when Java 11 is available?

Posted: Sat Apr 27, 2019 10:13 am
by ShiftPlusOne
alnaseh wrote: Probably java 8 will remain the main jdk for quite long time. Pi0 is armv6 and java 8 is the last working version on this platform.
I'll admit I haven't checked, but I'd be very surprised if openjdk 11 didn't work on a pi 0.

Re: Why are Raspberry Pi still using Java 8 when Java 11 is available?

Posted: Sun Apr 28, 2019 8:40 am
by fruitoftheloom
alnaseh wrote:
Sat Apr 27, 2019 9:59 am
Probably java 8 will remain the main jdk for quite long time. Pi0 is armv6 and java 8 is the last working version on this platform.

How do you come to that conclusion, Debian Buster offer ARMHF, admittedly ARMv7, but many packages which Debian list as ARMv7 do actually run on ARMv6.

Please provide proof of your conjecture !

Re: Why are Raspberry Pi still using Java 8 when Java 11 is available?

Posted: Sun Apr 28, 2019 10:51 am
by rpdom
openjdk 11 is available in Raspbian Buster, therefore it should work on any Raspberry Pi.

Re: Why are Raspberry Pi still using Java 8 when Java 11 is available?

Posted: Sun Apr 28, 2019 11:01 am
by fruitoftheloom
rpdom wrote:
Sun Apr 28, 2019 10:51 am
openjdk 11 is available in Raspbian Buster, therefore it should work on any Raspberry Pi.

Yep just stated that :(

https://packages.debian.org/source/buster/openjdk-11

Re: Why are Raspberry Pi still using Java 8 when Java 11 is available?

Posted: Sun Apr 28, 2019 12:11 pm
by rpdom
fruitoftheloom wrote:
Sun Apr 28, 2019 11:01 am
rpdom wrote:
Sun Apr 28, 2019 10:51 am
openjdk 11 is available in Raspbian Buster, therefore it should work on any Raspberry Pi.

Yep just stated that :(

https://packages.debian.org/source/buster/openjdk-11
Well, actually you stated that Debian have it. It doesn't always follow that Raspbian has it available, but in this case it does

Code: Select all

[email protected]:~ $ apt policy openjdk-11-jre
openjdk-11-jre:
  Installed: (none)
  Candidate: 11.0.3+1-1
  Version table:
     11.0.3+1-1 50
         50 http://raspbian.raspberrypi.org/raspbian buster/main armhf Packages
:)

Re: Why are Raspberry Pi still using Java 8 when Java 11 is available?

Posted: Tue Apr 30, 2019 4:06 am
by alnaseh
ShiftPlusOne wrote:
Sat Apr 27, 2019 10:13 am
alnaseh wrote: Probably java 8 will remain the main jdk for quite long time. Pi0 is armv6 and java 8 is the last working version on this platform.
I'll admit I haven't checked, but I'd be very surprised if openjdk 11 didn't work on a pi 0.
we already killed this topic here:
viewtopic.php?t=196887
fruitoftheloom wrote:
Sun Apr 28, 2019 8:40 am
alnaseh wrote:
Sat Apr 27, 2019 9:59 am
Probably java 8 will remain the main jdk for quite long time. Pi0 is armv6 and java 8 is the last working version on this platform.

How do you come to that conclusion, Debian Buster offer ARMHF, admittedly ARMv7, but many packages which Debian list as ARMv7 do actually run on ARMv6.

Please provide proof of your conjecture !
it is just 2 minutes away from you, you can just install it and try it. i was trying hard to find away to have it in Pi0 without success, i have even contacted Oracle as they have a testing version of java9 that was working before the official release, but no success as well.

Re: Why are Raspberry Pi still using Java 8 when Java 11 is available?

Posted: Tue Apr 30, 2019 7:00 am
by fruitoftheloom
alnaseh wrote:
Tue Apr 30, 2019 4:06 am
ShiftPlusOne wrote:
Sat Apr 27, 2019 10:13 am
alnaseh wrote: Probably java 8 will remain the main jdk for quite long time. Pi0 is armv6 and java 8 is the last working version on this platform.
I'll admit I haven't checked, but I'd be very surprised if openjdk 11 didn't work on a pi 0.
we already killed this topic here:
viewtopic.php?t=196887
fruitoftheloom wrote:
Sun Apr 28, 2019 8:40 am
alnaseh wrote:
Sat Apr 27, 2019 9:59 am
Probably java 8 will remain the main jdk for quite long time. Pi0 is armv6 and java 8 is the last working version on this platform.

How do you come to that conclusion, Debian Buster offer ARMHF, admittedly ARMv7, but many packages which Debian list as ARMv7 do actually run on ARMv6.

Please provide proof of your conjecture !
it is just 2 minutes away from you, you can just install it and try it. i was trying hard to find away to have it in Pi0 without success, i have even contacted Oracle as they have a testing version of java9 that was working before the official release, but no success as well.

So you have now hijacked Daniel Martensson's post.