welshy
Posts: 1667
Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2012 2:07 pm

Daphne Emulator Project: Update - Star Rider Info!

Mon Dec 30, 2013 9:25 pm

I am trying to build a Cross-Compiler to get Daphne working. I have tried the instructions here - http://www.bootc.net/archives/2012/05/2 ... pberry-pi/ in Ubuntu but seem to be having problems. If anybody has a good link for a reliable Tutorial for building a Cross-Compiler please leave a post, then I can get on trying to fork/convert Daphne which apparently can be done See Here - http://www.dragons-lair-project.com/com ... ?TID=61297 and Here - https://www.daphne-emu.com:9443/mediawi ... osscompile
Thank you
Last edited by welshy on Fri Feb 28, 2014 11:47 am, edited 3 times in total.
"The list of things I have heard now contains everything!"

dom
Raspberry Pi Engineer & Forum Moderator
Raspberry Pi Engineer & Forum Moderator
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Re: Daphne Emulator Project - Cross-Compiler Required

Mon Dec 30, 2013 10:01 pm

Do you need to build your own compiler?
There's one here:
https://github.com/raspberrypi/tools/tr ... f-raspbian

welshy
Posts: 1667
Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2012 2:07 pm

Re: Daphne Emulator Project - Cross-Compiler Required

Mon Dec 30, 2013 10:23 pm

dom
Not necessarily, just a good Tutorial on how to build/use a Cross-Compiler so I can make a Binary using the Linux Source Code of Daphne (x86) to RPi (ARM).
"The list of things I have heard now contains everything!"

kwadroke
Posts: 33
Joined: Tue Jan 29, 2013 4:20 am

Re: Daphne Emulator Project - Cross-Compiler Required

Mon Dec 30, 2013 11:33 pm

I've gotten Daphne to compile and run on the Pi, but it was extremely slow. I'll have to dig out the SD card to see what I had to do to get it to run.
I didn't cross compile though.

Vanfanel
Posts: 444
Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2012 5:58 pm

Re: Daphne Emulator Project - Cross-Compiler Required

Mon Dec 30, 2013 11:42 pm

kwadroke wrote:I've gotten Daphne to compile and run on the Pi, but it was extremely slow. I'll have to dig out the SD card to see what I had to do to get it to run.
I didn't cross compile though.
What kind of graphics backend does it use? If it's using plain SDL, most CPU will be eaten bu software-scaling to high-resolutions.
It must have some EGL/GLES backend, as it also runs in Android.

welshy
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Re: Daphne Emulator Project - Cross-Compiler Required

Mon Dec 30, 2013 11:48 pm

kwadroke
Sweet, thanks. How did you get it to run without cross-compiling (there is no ARM version)? Matt Ownby (one of the Daphne authors) has it running exellently (See Here - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lNv03Jf2 ... e=youtu.be) which peaked my interest again, unfortunately for various reasons stated on his Blog he isn't going to release the Binary, which is a shame.
Last edited by welshy on Tue Dec 31, 2013 12:11 am, edited 2 times in total.
"The list of things I have heard now contains everything!"

kwadroke
Posts: 33
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Re: Daphne Emulator Project - Cross-Compiler Required

Tue Dec 31, 2013 12:09 am

I modified the sources and compiled it on the Pi to get it to run. If I remember right, I just have it using SDL.
It's been a while since I messed with it. Will have to see how I have it configured.

Vanfanel
Posts: 444
Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2012 5:58 pm

Re: Daphne Emulator Project - Cross-Compiler Required

Tue Dec 31, 2013 10:30 am

Matt Ownby seems to be using OpenMAX + GLES2.
http://my-cool-projects.blogspot.com.es ... mment-form

I would love to read the part where he says he's not releasing the binaries or sources and why.

welshy
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Re: Daphne Emulator Project - Cross-Compiler Required

Tue Dec 31, 2013 11:02 am

Vanfanel
Its Here - http://my-cool-projects.blogspot.com.es ... chive.html
Pity he didn't post in this section, he would probably have got a better response! Yes it looks like the code converts JPEG's (mpeg frames) into an OpenGL ES texture.
I didn't notice it before but right at the bottom is a link to his post on the RPi Forum
Here - http://www.raspberrypi.org/phpBB3/viewt ... 21&start=0
"The list of things I have heard now contains everything!"

Vanfanel
Posts: 444
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Re: Daphne Emulator Project - Cross-Compiler Required

Tue Dec 31, 2013 11:14 am

Sounds to me that he (rightfully) wants money for his job on Daphne-pi. What if we approach him about a price for the sources? We can just ask for an ammount and then donate it via the Daphne donation account.
I'm willing to pay for the sources of this great port: it's supposed to be perfectly integrated with the hardware by using specialized APIs in the correct way. It's not something you see everyday.
I'm not giving a penny for closed binaries without sources, though.

dom
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Re: Daphne Emulator Project - Cross-Compiler Required

Tue Dec 31, 2013 12:12 pm

welshy wrote:Not necessarily, just a good Tutorial on how to build/use a Cross-Compiler so I can make a Binary using the Linux Source Code of Daphne (x86) to RPi (ARM).
As kwadroke found out, getting Daphne to build isn't the challenge, it's making it use hardware acceleration (which is the only way this will be usable).
That is the hard part, and it seems Matt Ownby has done an impressive job in getting that working.

So, I don't think there's much point in trying to build the (non-hardware accelerated) source, unless you are intending to add your own hardware acceleration.

I think any effort in this area is better spent talking to Matt about what he wants in return for releasing this.

welshy
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Re: Daphne Emulator Project - Cross-Compiler Required

Tue Dec 31, 2013 12:38 pm

dom
Yes, no doubt, I did notice on closer inspection of the UTube video (and noticing it was built by Matt Ownby as part of the Cobra Command for Collins project) there was an OpenGL call so obviously it wasn't the standard SDL build.
"The list of things I have heard now contains everything!"

Vanfanel
Posts: 444
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Re: Daphne Emulator Project - Cross-Compiler Required

Mon Jan 06, 2014 2:13 pm

So, did anybody approach the author in order to know what does he want for the binaries and sources?

MattOwnby
Posts: 58
Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2012 7:22 pm

Re: Daphne Emulator Project - Cross-Compiler Required

Tue Jan 28, 2014 10:39 pm

Hey guys :)

I totally stumbled upon this thread by complete accident and I found it very interesting :)

Here's some technical details about my DaphnePi port:
- It indeed does use OpenMAX+GLES2 to achieve incredible speeds. I've posted full source code for how to do this here: http://www.raspberrypi.org/phpBB3/viewt ... 33&t=57721 . If anyone needs this to be BSD-ized, I've recently warmed up to the BSD license and have written a couple of emulators very recently under this license (Motorola 6809 and Motorola PIA 6821). Just a bit of trivia :)
- It's only fast enough to play games that emulate a single CPU. That list probably includes Dragon's Lair, Space Ace, Thayer's Quest, Cliff Hanger, Badlands, and a special hacked version of Cobra Command that I did just for Leslie Collins' Cobra Command cabinet (more on this later). This is because emulating multiple CPU's is just too taxing on the ARM.
- The main reason I did the port in the first place was for the Cobra Command for Collins project (finished) and for Dexter (not released yet). It wasn't primarily to port Daphne to the Pi. Cobra Command (the version we used) uses two CPU's, a 6502 for the main game logic and a 6502 to control the sound chip. I hacked the driver to not emulate the second 6502 CPU and instead play samples for the sounds. It works great. Check it out: http://youtu.be/zJJ7mK5SS88

Releasing the source:
I want this to happen some day, but releasing it in an unfinished/unsuitable state doesn't interest me (due to my preference to reduce tech support where possible). Getting a bunch of donations to just release it doesn't sound like a very workable solution because it puts an unfair burden upon a small group of very interested people which puts pressure on me to ask for an unreasonably low figure out of guilt :) . Most likely the way this is going to play out is that I am going to eventually get around to putting some finishing touches on this thing and sell it for a period of time until I feel like I've recouped my investment costs, then release the full source code (like what John Carmack does with his stuff).

For the time being, I'd invite you to check out my JPEG+GLES2 tutorial as that has all of the optimizations that I used in DaphnePi (literally).

Vanfanel
Posts: 444
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Re: Daphne Emulator Project - Cross-Compiler Required

Wed Jan 29, 2014 11:30 am

Hello Matt!

Good to read you here, and congrats on Daphne, it's an AWESOME piece of work and I've had countless hours of fun with it in the past, being Dragon's Lair the first game I finished in a Linux machine! :)

I find your idea good: selling the binary and eventually releasing the sources once you get enough money from it sounds fair.
I'd take a look at the code and implement the GLES2 and OpenMAX stuff myself, but working with other people's code is hard sometimes: however, if you're willing to answer my questions, I'll go for it :D (after I finish some Rpi/GLES2 ports I'm working on at the moment, wich are forcing me to finally learn GLES).

I'll be eagerly waiting the binary! Dragon's Lair on the Pi is a must! Such a wonderful game...

welshy
Posts: 1667
Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2012 2:07 pm

Re: Daphne Emulator Project - Cross-Compiler Required

Wed Jan 29, 2014 12:44 pm

MattOwnbyi
Thank you for the reply Matt! That sounds like a reasonable compromise as recompense for your hard work. I'm sure there will be a lot of interest from the RPi community taking into account the age profile of many users who have posted about Daphne (including myself) who recall the classic LaserDisc Games from their youth. Given todays consumer Hardware it is difficult to explain to someone not of that era the experience of entering an Arcade and witnessing, in awe and disbelief, Dragon’s Lair compared to other machines of that era. I would also like to state my appreciation to you and the Team for Daphne, which has brought me and no doubt many others countless hours of enjoyment and look forward in anticipation of a Binary release for the RPi.
"The list of things I have heard now contains everything!"

MattOwnby
Posts: 58
Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2012 7:22 pm

Re: Daphne Emulator Project - Cross-Compiler Required

Wed Jan 29, 2014 2:35 pm

Thanks for understanding, guys.

Just for some perspective, I just paid $589 for a new license for IDA Starter Edition ( https://www.hex-rays.com/products/ida/ ) and paid another $500 a few years ago for a standard license of EAGLE ( http://www.cadsoftusa.com/eagle-pcb-des ... anguage=en ), both of which are directly related to Daphne/Dexter, so this is definitely an expensive hobby. I'm glad I am not getting push back on trying to recoup some of these costs on here like I have on some of the other less mature forums :)

As for schedule, I am really pushing to ship Dexter ASAP and hopefully that will be some time this year. Then I can look at doing a proper DaphnePi release. :)

welshy
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Re: Daphne Emulator Project: Cross-Compiler Required

Thu Jan 30, 2014 10:45 am

MattOwnby wrote:Thanks for understanding, guys. I'm glad I am not getting push back on trying to recoup some of these costs on here like I have on some of the other less mature forums :)
I think the question of what the model for emulators by non-corporate developers that would be sufficient remuneration is an interesting subject. No self-respecting person would argue of entitlement to all software for free given the time/cost of development, but fair reimbursement is problematic given the current model of donations (some gladly contribute, many/most don’t). Previously attempted models such as purchased keycodes (releasing an emulator from ‘Timed’ play) don’t really work given that many users of such software are often very computer literate and can often circumvent such devices by their own means. Your suggestion of a Binary version until the cost of development is recouped (considering the quantity of downloads for many emulators a small ‘fee’ would soon accumulate) then source code release sounds like an entirely fair solution for the programmer and the community using the software.
"The list of things I have heard now contains everything!"

welshy
Posts: 1667
Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2012 2:07 pm

Re: Daphne Emulator Project: Cross-Compiler Required

Fri Feb 28, 2014 10:29 am

Slightly off Topic (as Matt mentions it may not be possible on a Raspberry Pi Port of Daphne), but if like me you have been patiently waiting for an Emulator to run the exquisite Laser Disc Arcade Title Williams 'Star Rider' (my personal favourite Laser Disc Game), Matt has been posting current progress on his Blog (Link - http://my-cool-projects.blogspot.com.es ... el/vldp-hw) and now has it running, albeit currently in an unplayable state. There is also some great insight into the complexities of programming Emulators (for those interested). Awsome work Matt!

Link - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y8njK_EySf4

Here's a Link of an Actual Arcade Cab being Played! Link - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8_9rOAiGIhg

For further reading here's a Link to the Dragons Lair Project Site (Star Rider Page) which is dedicated to preserving Laser Disc Arcade Games for posterity.

Link - http://www.dragons-lair-project.com/games/pages/sr.asp

When you consider this Game was released in 1984 (30 YEARS AGO!) it shows the potential of Laser Disc based Arcade Games, just a shame they were undone by the unreliability of the Player Hardware at the Time.
"The list of things I have heard now contains everything!"

ericleejoe
Posts: 8
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Re: Daphne Emulator Project: Update - Star Rider Info!

Mon Jun 22, 2015 12:11 pm

I realize this is a very old thread. Any updates on Daphne on the Pi? What if Matt were to create a kickstarter project to release the Daphne code for the Pi? He would get paid for his time and effort and we could have an awesome port on the Pi. I personally would contribute. This extra $$ might help Matt move forward on his Dexter projects and help pay for some of the up front costs he has incurred the last couple years.

Thanks
Eric

welshy
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Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2012 2:07 pm

Re: Daphne Emulator Project: Update - Star Rider Info!

Mon Jun 22, 2015 5:35 pm

ericleejoe
Welcome to the Forum! I can't answer for Matt, I know he is currently deeply involved in the Dexter Project. Only one way to find out!
"The list of things I have heard now contains everything!"

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