feelslikeautumn
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Re: Android on a Raspberry Pi

Sun Jul 01, 2018 12:07 pm

jamesh wrote:
Sun Jul 01, 2018 7:55 am
4. What is 'the regular Linux graphics stack'?
https://fosdem.org/2018/interviews/robert-foss/
And just so people understand, AFAIK, there are no plans whatsoever to develop an in house Android. However, if other people make the effort, that's great. That fact the Pi has been out 5 years, and there still isn't a really good implementation should speak volumes.
Yes, but Android is normally provided by the hardware manufacturer. There is not the same number of community builds of Android as there is for Linux.

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mahjongg
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Re: Android on a Raspberry Pi

Sun Jul 01, 2018 1:12 pm

feelslikeautumn wrote:
Sun Jul 01, 2018 12:07 pm
Yes, but Android is normally provided by the hardware manufacturer.
Yes, but most other similar SoC's as used by the PI are almost ONLY used for Android tablets, so its no surprise the designers of such SoC's put all their software efforts in designing drivers for them, (and for *nothing* else) as without Android drivers they would have nothing to sell. Still they rely heavily on the open source community to help them write these drivers.

jamesh
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Re: Android on a Raspberry Pi

Sun Jul 01, 2018 2:24 pm

The basic technology behind Videocore was designed before Android turned up. It's actually quite a difficult job to match up Android requirements with how VC actually works. Hence the large timescales required to actually make it work.
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hippy
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Re: Android on a Raspberry Pi

Sun Jul 01, 2018 2:27 pm

jamesh wrote:
Sun Jul 01, 2018 7:55 am
And just to say, this sort of conversation is the reason we closed the Android forum in the first place.
And I for one would hate to see it closed again.

Perhaps the best thing to do is to not argue or debate the issue, don't rise to the bait, don't try to defend the Foundation's position, don't get caught up in the arguments, inadvertently exasperating those. Just state how it is; there is no engineering support for Android from the RPF(T) and none planned for the future. You are on your own. Good luck.

fruitoftheloom
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Re: Android on a Raspberry Pi

Sun Jul 01, 2018 3:21 pm

hippy wrote:
Sun Jul 01, 2018 2:27 pm
jamesh wrote:
Sun Jul 01, 2018 7:55 am
And just to say, this sort of conversation is the reason we closed the Android forum in the first place.
And I for one would hate to see it closed again.

Perhaps the best thing to do is to not argue or debate the issue, don't rise to the bait, don't try to defend the Foundation's position, don't get caught up in the arguments, inadvertently exasperating those. Just state how it is; there is no engineering support for Android from the RPF(T) and none planned for the future. You are on your own. Good luck.

Yes and it is in the updated STICKIE, so please fla no more argueing as at least 4 employers of RPT/RPF have categorically stated no Official Support.

Let's face facts even Google stated that the RPi 3B is only suitable as a development platform and not a production platform for Android Things:

https://developer.android.com/things/get-started/
Adieu

jamesh
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Re: Android on a Raspberry Pi

Sun Jul 01, 2018 3:57 pm

hippy wrote:
Sun Jul 01, 2018 2:27 pm
jamesh wrote:
Sun Jul 01, 2018 7:55 am
And just to say, this sort of conversation is the reason we closed the Android forum in the first place.
And I for one would hate to see it closed again.

Perhaps the best thing to do is to not argue or debate the issue, don't rise to the bait, don't try to defend the Foundation's position, don't get caught up in the arguments, inadvertently exasperating those. Just state how it is; there is no engineering support for Android from the RPF(T) and none planned for the future. You are on your own. Good luck.
I'm a moderator/Pi engineer. It's my job to moderate, to advise, to put people right where they are wrong. If I ignore nonsense, or fail to promote/defend our products/position when they are unfairly criticised, I would not be doing my job. So I will continue to do those things.

Now that our position has been, once again, publicly stated, hopefully the 'arguments' will stop. If they don't I'll just lock threads. Continued arguments will of course result in harsher actions. There's not point in trying to persuade the RPF(T) to 'do' Android. We don't have the required team, or the time, or the inclination, or indeed, any reason, to do it.
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feelslikeautumn
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Re: Android on a Raspberry Pi

Mon Jul 02, 2018 10:02 am

hippy wrote:
Sun Jul 01, 2018 2:27 pm
jamesh wrote:
Sun Jul 01, 2018 7:55 am
And just to say, this sort of conversation is the reason we closed the Android forum in the first place.
And I for one would hate to see it closed again.

Perhaps the best thing to do is to not argue or debate the issue, don't rise to the bait, don't try to defend the Foundation's position, don't get caught up in the arguments, inadvertently exasperating those. Just state how it is; there is no engineering support for Android from the RPF(T) and none planned for the future. You are on your own. Good luck.
Yes that would certainly be preferable to having to read a completely made up cost/time analysis.

It'll be interesting to see if there is any movement in the number of android users on the pi due to the magpi articles. Lineage os stats are currently showing 11 thousand active users. Even though there are no official downloads. Emteria are currently showing 21 thousand downloads. Small numbers compared to the overall number of pi sales, but certainly not insignificant.

It's a pity that magpi promoted the build by Exton (one of the unofficial lineage os builds). From what I can tell it's the Emteria people who are sending in patches to make things work on the pi.

jamesh
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Re: Android on a Raspberry Pi

Mon Jul 02, 2018 10:21 am

feelslikeautumn wrote:
Mon Jul 02, 2018 10:02 am
Yes that would certainly be preferable to having to read a completely made up cost/time analysis.
Example only, the point being it is simply not cost effective for us to port Android. I was attempting to give some idea of the numbers involved, not give a detailed analysis. But claiming it is completely made up is nonsense - the principle is correct. But hey, you can keep trying to get a rise out of the mods. No skin off my nose.
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jamesh
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Re: Android on a Raspberry Pi

Mon Jul 02, 2018 10:24 am

feelslikeautumn wrote:
Mon Jul 02, 2018 10:02 am
It's a pity that magpi promoted the build by Exton (one of the unofficial lineage os builds). From what I can tell it's the Emteria people who are sending in patches to make things work on the pi.
It's a pity they published any article at all about Android. Had we seen it beforehand, we would probably have tried to veto it.
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feelslikeautumn
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Re: Android on a Raspberry Pi

Mon Jul 02, 2018 11:36 am

jamesh wrote:
Mon Jul 02, 2018 10:21 am
But hey, you can keep trying to get a rise out of the mods. No skin off my nose.
I'm not trying to get a rise out of anyone. I'm just trying to portray accurately the state of android at this time.
Q: Which other platforms can we expect to run Android using the mainline graphics stack this year?

A: Seeing this work on VC4 seems quite likely, I don’t think a lot of code is missing.
That's a quote from the link I gave above. By somebody who is working on this stuff (the article is from Feb this year). It is very different from the 17,000 hours you say is needed.

mattmiller
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Re: Android on a Raspberry Pi

Mon Jul 02, 2018 11:45 am

As a neutral bystander re Android on RPi......

The Android forum has been re-opened :)

I suggest closing this thread and just getting on with helping or ignoring (as with any other subject) anyone who posts something seeking help.

If someone re-raises the issue of why no official help - just link them to this thread without further comment.

Of course, you or any member of your IMF team are free to refuse this advice :)

#LiveLongAndProsper

jamesh
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Re: Android on a Raspberry Pi

Mon Jul 02, 2018 1:45 pm

feelslikeautumn wrote:
Mon Jul 02, 2018 11:36 am
jamesh wrote:
Mon Jul 02, 2018 10:21 am
But hey, you can keep trying to get a rise out of the mods. No skin off my nose.
I'm not trying to get a rise out of anyone. I'm just trying to portray accurately the state of android at this time.
Q: Which other platforms can we expect to run Android using the mainline graphics stack this year?

A: Seeing this work on VC4 seems quite likely, I don’t think a lot of code is missing.
That's a quote from the link I gave above. By somebody who is working on this stuff (the article is from Feb this year). It is very different from the 17,000 hours you say is needed.
Was needed. I'm sure lots of work has been done since then, just not by us. It's been 5 years, Eric's been working for three I think, which is probably 2500hours, is but still lots to do I suspect to make it all work seemlessly.
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