mark_3094
Posts: 74
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Location: Australia
Contact: Website

Re: Implementing a USB Driver

Mon Jan 07, 2013 5:35 am

tritonium wrote:Well I too can find nothing to read - the link shows an empty box???
Here is the direct link:
http://networkdirection.net/images/stor ... 0v1.02.pdf

Does that work for you? If not, let me know and I will contact the hosting people.

phil95
Posts: 141
Joined: Wed Sep 12, 2012 8:10 am
Location: Paris

Re: Implementing a USB Driver

Mon Jan 07, 2013 8:28 am

I have tried with differents Windows and Exporer version, exactly the same problem.
But with Google Chrome, I can see the whole page and can download the 3 versions of doc.
That page is not Internet Explorer readable ...
Philippe

6677
Posts: 383
Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2012 9:23 pm

Re: Implementing a USB Driver

Mon Jan 07, 2013 1:29 pm

Rene_is_I wrote:Very interesting info jamesh, thanks.
do you perhaps know which CPU the new Nokia Windows phones use?
Both the 820 and 920 use a Qualcomm Snapdragon S4 Plus MSM8960 clock at 1500MHz with an Adreno 225 GPU for which I can find very little info on. The S4 line is rather similar to the cortex A15 CPU's, it is a fully compliant ARMv7 chip but the main core was designed by qualcomm rather than being based off of one of ARM's existing designs. I think the cell modems, wifi and bluetooth connectivity are integral to SoC too. It also has 1024mb of RAM in both the 820 and 920. If that was the chip powering the pi, damn it would be awesome, it would also make the pi god damned expensive though. Nothing wrong with the pi's hardware considering the cost, there are more powerful boards out there if you need them, they just come at a price premium.

Somewhat bizarrely the qualcomm S4 line is actually listed as a requirement for windows phone 8.

Rene_is_I
Posts: 172
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Re: Implementing a USB Driver

Mon Jan 07, 2013 5:21 pm

Thanks 6677, interesting info.
You say that Qualcomm designed their own chip rather then use one from ARM, wondering how
they are circumventing any IP issues.
I thought that ARM owned the arm architecture and opcodes.

I am not at all surprised that the Qualcomm chips are a prerequisite for Win8, given Microsoft's history.
They have always liked to "cosy" up to a "preferred" supplier.
The wintel days all over again.

6677
Posts: 383
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Re: Implementing a USB Driver

Mon Jan 07, 2013 5:49 pm

Arm are pretty flexible in their license. They will license the instruction set, verilog implementations or straight core designs as required. In Qualcomms case they have a license to manufacture their own ARMv7 core designs rather than an existing one.

They aren't own their own doing that. Apples A6 and A6x are also scratch designs and I think there are a few others out there too.

I just think its odd that wp8 requires a Qualcomm chip when their own ARM based hardware, the surface, uses an NVidia tegra 3.

tritonium
Posts: 79
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Re: Implementing a USB Driver

Mon Jan 07, 2013 6:26 pm

mark_3094 wrote:
tritonium wrote:Well I too can find nothing to read - the link shows an empty box???
Here is the direct link:
http://networkdirection.net/images/stor ... 0v1.02.pdf

Does that work for you? If not, let me know and I will contact the hosting people.
Yes that works fine via the direct link
Thanks
Dave H

dwelch67
Posts: 961
Joined: Sat May 26, 2012 5:32 pm

Re: Implementing a USB Driver

Mon Jan 07, 2013 6:32 pm

ARM can/will(/has) bury you legally if you make a clone AND DON'T LICENSE IT. You need to get your logic up to the level that theirs is, they may or may not make a special armvsomethingxyz for your core, and you pay them annually and/or per unit. And you can have the name ARM tied to it, use their instruction set and stay in business without fear.

It is the folks that try to sell a clone without doing this are the ones that get buried fast (picoturbo).

Remember that ARM is an IP company, not a chip company, their entire business model has to do with selling IP which means providing source code. They have an army of lawyers to protect that IP if it gets into the wrong hands (leaks out of your company). Other companies are in the IP business as well, but ARM is the one that scares me more than any of the rest.

David

Rene_is_I
Posts: 172
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Re: Implementing a USB Driver

Mon Jan 07, 2013 7:16 pm

Ahhh, the joys of corporate bull$%&#.
Luckily 99.99999% of us don't have to worry about all this licensing stuff, just let the big boys like NEC,
Toshiba, Atmel, Broadcom and so on worry about that and we just buy the chips from them.

One thing that I have thought about is why everyone has gone gaga over the ARM when the MIPS
looks very suitable for embedded devices, game consoles and even tablets.
The Sony PS2 and PSP use MIPS.
The MIPS architecture and design can also be licensed and if I'm not mistaken Broadcom bought out
SiByte which used to make MIPS CPUs.

Rene_is_I
Posts: 172
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Re: Implementing a USB Driver

Mon Jan 07, 2013 7:23 pm

dwelch67 wrote: It is the folks that try to sell a clone without doing this are the ones that get buried fast (picoturbo).
Here is part two of the picoturbo story:

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/03/19 ... ake_pound/

Rene_is_I
Posts: 172
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Re: Implementing a USB Driver

Mon Jan 07, 2013 8:15 pm

phil95 wrote:I have tried with differents Windows and Exporer version, exactly the same problem.
But with Google Chrome, I can see the whole page and can download the 3 versions of doc.
That page is not Internet Explorer readable ...
Philippe
I can confirm the same thing.
Using Win7+FireFox 17.01 all is fine.
Same machine running I.E. 9 it does not work.

No biggie for me as I don't use I.E.
By the way, mark_3094, have you looked at the html code for that page?
Seems like an awful lot considering the page's content.

EDIT:

I see now what the problem could be.
You used Microsoft office (Word) to create that webpage and it's notorious for adding
all sorts of extra unnecessary code and xml tags to html pages which I.E. seems to choke on.

Rene_is_I
Posts: 172
Joined: Tue Dec 25, 2012 12:52 pm

Re: Implementing a USB Driver

Mon Jan 07, 2013 8:49 pm

OK, just to test, I downloaded the webpage and took out everything from (inclusive):

[if gte mso 9]

to

[endif]

(all 9 occurrences)
Now I.E. can see the links to the pdf docs.
So it definitely looks like it's all the OfficeDocumentSettings embedded stuff that is creating the problems.

Rather strange that their own browser is not even compatible with the stuff their office app produces.

OK found the solution to getting rid of all that extra embedded stuff.
In Word, save the page as a html filtered document and not as a html document.
Not only does it make it I.E. compatible but it's much much smaller.
As an example I created a simple "Hello World!" webpage in Word:
- normal html page came to 21 498 bytes (yes 21KB)
- filtered html page cam to 884 bytes.

Same thing using Notepad 61 bytes.
Last edited by Rene_is_I on Mon Jan 07, 2013 9:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

mark_3094
Posts: 74
Joined: Mon Jul 02, 2012 8:38 am
Location: Australia
Contact: Website

Re: Implementing a USB Driver

Mon Jan 07, 2013 8:58 pm

I have removed all the HTML from the page and started again without Word.

I obviously don't know much about webpages, so thankyou for showing me this problem. I will have others to fix now as well...

Please let me know if the link works for you now.


Thanks

http://networkdirection.net/index.php?o ... &Itemid=54

Rene_is_I
Posts: 172
Joined: Tue Dec 25, 2012 12:52 pm

Re: Implementing a USB Driver

Mon Jan 07, 2013 9:06 pm

Hi mark_3094

Yes all good now thanks.

See my edited post above about using filtered html versus "normal" html when creating webpages with office.
It will save you space and traffic on your server too.

tufty
Posts: 1456
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Re: Implementing a USB Driver

Tue Jan 08, 2013 6:32 am

Rene_is_I wrote:You used Microsoft office (Word) to create that webpage and it's notorious for adding
all sorts of extra unnecessary code and xml tags to html pages which I.E. seems to choke on.
Irony - MS tools produce HTML incompatible with MS tools.

jamesh
Raspberry Pi Engineer & Forum Moderator
Raspberry Pi Engineer & Forum Moderator
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Re: Implementing a USB Driver

Tue Jan 08, 2013 7:59 am

Rene_is_I wrote:Ahhh, the joys of corporate bull$%&#.
Luckily 99.99999% of us don't have to worry about all this licensing stuff, just let the big boys like NEC,
Toshiba, Atmel, Broadcom and so on worry about that and we just buy the chips from them.

One thing that I have thought about is why everyone has gone gaga over the ARM when the MIPS
looks very suitable for embedded devices, game consoles and even tablets.
The Sony PS2 and PSP use MIPS.
The MIPS architecture and design can also be licensed and if I'm not mistaken Broadcom bought out
SiByte which used to make MIPS CPUs.
What corporate BS? How is Arm protecting their huge investment BS? But you are right, people simply don't need to worry about it - it's all sorted out by the manufacturer.

Why Arm > MIPS? Who knows. ARM licences are very cost effective, and their engineers really know how to do low power. Perhaps that's it.
Principal Software Engineer at Raspberry Pi (Trading) Ltd.
Contrary to popular belief, humorous signatures are allowed. Here's an example...
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phil95
Posts: 141
Joined: Wed Sep 12, 2012 8:10 am
Location: Paris

Re: Implementing a USB Driver

Tue Jan 08, 2013 8:27 am

I confirm, the links are working fine
Many thanks
Philippe

mark_3094 wrote:I have removed all the HTML from the page and started again without Word.

I obviously don't know much about webpages, so thankyou for showing me this problem. I will have others to fix now as well...

Please let me know if the link works for you now.


Thanks

http://networkdirection.net/index.php?o ... &Itemid=54

Rene_is_I
Posts: 172
Joined: Tue Dec 25, 2012 12:52 pm

Re: Implementing a USB Driver

Tue Jan 08, 2013 1:02 pm

@jamesh
By corporate bs I meant how the lawyers run around like junkyard dogs fighting over
some scrawny bone.
Of course one has the right to protect ones IP but the
way the patents are writen and accepted currently
is unacceptable as anything closely resembling what
is in a patent sends the lawyers into a rabid feeding frenzy.

jamesh
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Raspberry Pi Engineer & Forum Moderator
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Re: Implementing a USB Driver

Tue Jan 08, 2013 1:48 pm

Rene_is_I wrote:@jamesh
By corporate bs I meant how the lawyers run around like junkyard dogs fighting over
some scrawny bone.
Of course one has the right to protect ones IP but the
way the patents are writen and accepted currently
is unacceptable as anything closely resembling what
is in a patent sends the lawyers into a rabid feeding frenzy.
I agree about the mess that is the patent system, but what companies like Arm do is a perfectly valid use of this system. They are not trolls or people who patent the obvious. They also deal in HW, not software patents which is where all the real nonsense occurs.
Principal Software Engineer at Raspberry Pi (Trading) Ltd.
Contrary to popular belief, humorous signatures are allowed. Here's an example...
“I think it’s wrong that only one company makes the game Monopoly.” – Steven Wright

Rene_is_I
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Re: Implementing a USB Driver

Tue Jan 08, 2013 2:22 pm

I wasn't having a go at Broadcom but at the lawyers who in my opinion abuse the system and
contribute towards the mess.
I am in agreement with you about Broadcom not patenting
the obvious which in this day and age is the exception.
The rule being "let's put in as much general stuff as possible
and worry about it if/when someone contests it".
And therein lays the problem as not many people or
companies have the resources to contest this nonsense.

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DavidS
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Re: Implementing a USB Driver

Tue Jan 08, 2013 2:48 pm

Rene_is_I wrote:One thing that I have thought about is why everyone has gone gaga over the ARM when the MIPS looks very suitable for embedded devices, game consoles and even tablets.
There are three reasons that I know of for this:
  • 1)the ARM was the first to deliver the performance in a commercial RISC CPU.
    2) The arm has always been extremely energy efficient. To my knowledge none of the competing designs have passed this up with the same performance. And obviously energy consumption is extremely important in embedded devices.
    3)Most ARM cores are smaller (in transistor count) than competing cores providing the same level of functionality.
RPi = The best ARM based RISC OS computer around
More than 95% of posts made from RISC OS on RPi 1B/1B+ computers. Most of the rest from RISC OS on RPi 2B/3B/3B+ computers

Rene_is_I
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Re: Implementing a USB Driver

Tue Jan 08, 2013 2:59 pm

Good enough reasons.

6677
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Re: Implementing a USB Driver

Tue Jan 08, 2013 7:35 pm

Nothing wrong with MIPS at all. Infact googles NDK for android supports ARMv6, ARMv7, x86 and mips. MIPS powered android tablets are incredibly popular in china. Not so many available elsewhere but they are there.

Rene_is_I
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Re: Implementing a USB Driver

Tue Jan 08, 2013 7:59 pm

Microsoft also used to make a NT version for MIPS,.
I also read somewhere that the Chinese Institute of Technology
actually designed their own version of a MIPS processor.
Don't remember the exact specs but I'm sure this is the one that they resell to manufactures for use in China.

Mips are also used in a lot of home gateways and routers.

By the way, have you seen this?

http://www.electronicsweekly.com/Articl ... ecture.htm

Here is a comprehensive list of products that use a MIPS based processor:

http://www.mips.com/everywhere/mips-based-products/
Last edited by Rene_is_I on Tue Jan 08, 2013 8:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

ghans
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Re: Implementing a USB Driver

Tue Jan 08, 2013 8:03 pm

The Longsoon CPU.
They added special instructions to speed up QEMU with a
x86 guest. They achieved nearly 80 % of native speed AFAIK.


ghans
• Don't like the board ? Missing features ? Change to the prosilver theme ! You can find it in your settings.
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Rene_is_I
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Re: Implementing a USB Driver

Tue Jan 08, 2013 8:05 pm

ghans wrote:The Longsoon CPU.
They added special instructions to speed up QEMU with a
x86 guest. They achieved nearly 80 % of native speed AFAIK.


ghans
The Longsoon, that's the one, thanks.

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