LdB
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Re: Ultibo core 2.0, now with OpenGL ES, OpenVG, OpenMAX...

Thu Jan 25, 2018 3:37 pm

Most of those sorts of camera's have MIPI CSI-2

I suggest you google "MIPI CSI-2 reference design" to give you some idea how many boards we are talking about as every man and his dog plays in this area. If you want to see them try youtube with "MIPI CSI-2"

You will find probably find 20 softcore IP and hundreds of Taiwain and Chinese companies who make products based on them.

NVIDIA for example does a 13MP reference design on the Jetson TK1 and the dev kit sells for $190 on Amazon
https://www.amazon.com/NVIDIA-Jetson-TK ... B00L7AWOEC
This reference
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gv2YBFE-g-s
is from this camera module ($190AUD + $89AUD) which is cheap for a reference design
https://www.e-consystems.com/13MP_MIPI_ ... module.asp
Pi3 will cost me $70AUD and Camera $60AUD as a comparison which is cheaper but nowhere near the power.

If you want to see what uni students do with it
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MCmgfHjMIKg

That is the high power computing end but there is also a whole market of low power devices for mobile applications.

So I don't know what you are trying to do with it but the only real advantage I can see is a Pi may be slightly cheaper than alternatives, although probably not as designed for task.

Radu79
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Re: Ultibo core 2.0, now with OpenGL ES, OpenVG, OpenMAX...

Thu Jan 25, 2018 4:08 pm

Those things are very expensive, and much bigger than what I need. And why would I use a Pi3 for that? It would make absolutely no sense to use something as expensive and big and power hungry as a Pi3 for just taking a picture.

LdB
Posts: 753
Joined: Wed Dec 07, 2016 2:29 pm

Re: Ultibo core 2.0, now with OpenGL ES, OpenVG, OpenMAX...

Fri Jan 26, 2018 2:12 am

As I said there are many sections of that market so you want something like a go-pro or dashboard camera like the hundreds of cheap immitation designs in China.

"mipi csi-2 extremely low power reference design" would be the search I would use there will be hundreds that run back to USB3 that you could put on a lot of embedded boards and there will be quite a few go-pro imitations. Lattice, TI and Intel have products in that market I know of and there will be a pile of minor players.

It was just strange talking about having another processor to turn the Pi on or off so clearly something was not right with the Pi.
The Pi is an all rounder sort of board and less than ideal for the sort of application you are designing so if you are doing it to learn stuff then more power to you. Being an embedded designer and programmer it just grates with ones natural commercial design process.

Anyhow you seem sold and intent on the Pi so go for it, it's your project and don't let me deter you.

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Gavinmc42
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Re: Ultibo core 2.0, now with OpenGL ES, OpenVG, OpenMAX...

Fri Jan 26, 2018 4:41 am

The advantage of Pi's is the hardware is easy to get and the knowledge base is bigger, but generally not as specific.
Very hard to get a SBC plus 8MP camera for Pi prices and to get more than one or more when you want them.
You could say they are the place to start for beginner image sensor learning.

viewtopic.php?t=176197&start=25
A BCM2835 + sensor on one small PCB would be cool except for the low power down.
I dream of an A35 version with low power sleep and rtc.

I use Pi's to learn how to code and how to get maximum usage out of the features that come with the SoC.
I don't really want to learn OpenCV on Raspbian Linux, that is general purpose vision software running on a general purpose OS.
Plenty of people have done that, just copy their tutorials.

Done a low power camera design before with an Epson chip, but that was just the hardware.
Now I want to learn the software and use the 1GHz cpu for stuff a 50MHz cpu cannot do.
I think there is a market for Zero + cameras, not just ones with Movidius hats.
Even if it is just making DIY FPV WiFi units for RC cars or nesting boxes or camera on a pole for gutter inspection :D

Wow, Starvis camera for Nvidia TX2, that would be fun to play with.
Starvis PCBs are out? google time for sure now :D
Been waiting for about 2 years for Starvis sensors in the wild ;)
Wonder if raspiraw could read it? Pi camera V3?

Image sensors are everywhere and are getting really interesting, ToF, IR, Multispectral, 3D, Stereo.......
Best(cheapest for the most people) way to start learning is Pi + Pi camera?
Going to be a need for people to code all image sensor systems.

Anyway, just last night(very early am) I read OpenMax IL is a lower layer than MMAL and is also better documented.
How to OpenMAX the camera on Ultibo? Will the learning ever stop?
I'm dancing on Rainbows.
Raspberries are not Apples or Oranges

6by9
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Raspberry Pi Engineer & Forum Moderator
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Re: Ultibo core 2.0, now with OpenGL ES, OpenVG, OpenMAX...

Thu Feb 01, 2018 12:18 pm

Gavinmc42 wrote:
Fri Jan 26, 2018 4:41 am
Anyway, just last night(very early am) I read OpenMax IL is a lower layer than MMAL and is also better documented.
How to OpenMAX the camera on Ultibo? Will the learning ever stop?
No, OpenMAX IL is an alternative to MMAL, and an absolute pain in the neck to work with. Get one little bit wrong and it wedges with very little diagnostics to work with. Most of the callbacks are asynchronous, so you end up looking at the full sequence of commands and trying to work out what is missing from the callbacks list.
The spec is also written by committee, with various ambiguities that were never actually resolved in the main spec. If you look at gst-omx (the GStreamer OMX plugin) then you'll find various comments about quirks in this and that implementation of IL. Some bits were clarified/revised in other docs, but never made it back into the main spec, and last time I looked you have to be Khronos members to get access to the additional docs.

It's not lower level. Both MMAL and IL use the same lowest level components (written to a "Reduced IL" API to remove all the duplication otherwise required in IL components), and at that point you just head through different core frameworks.
Feel free to implement it, but don't expect it to be easy.
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Gavinmc42
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Re: Ultibo core 2.0, now with OpenGL ES, OpenVG, OpenMAX...

Fri Feb 02, 2018 7:13 am

Both MMAL and IL use the same lowest level components
Good to know.

An Ultibo version of gstreamer is what I am trying to do for a webcam.
So many ways to do it in Linux.
Trying to understand all those ways and find one that does not use Linux dependence is the trick.
I'm dancing on Rainbows.
Raspberries are not Apples or Oranges

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