picandies
Posts: 75
Joined: Wed Nov 26, 2014 5:13 pm

is there a tutorials section?

Tue Mar 20, 2018 4:29 am

This being the graphics programming section, I'm rather surprised not to find a tutorials portion for comparing the various graphics packages & tutorials for using them. Since this is rpi hardware being used, any tutorial should of course include interfacing with the I/o hardware, such as reading a sensor, switches, , blinking some leds, etc. Is there a book or reference that compare the features of varous packages with complete demos/tutorials?
Some of the packages/helpers I've found:
EASYGUI, ELECTRON, GLADE, GTK, KIVY, LIANJA, NODE-RED, PICOGUI, PILLOW, PYCHARM, PYGAME, PYGTK, PYQT, PYQT5, PYQTGRAPH, PYSIDE, QTDESIGNER, MONO, MONODEVELOP, WXPYTHON, WXGLADE, PAGE, SCIPI, tkINTER, TkINTER, ttk, MATPLOTLIB, PYWAPI, BUNIFUPY, VISUAL STUDIO, XOJO

picandies
Posts: 75
Joined: Wed Nov 26, 2014 5:13 pm

Re: is there a tutorials section?

Tue Mar 20, 2018 4:30 am

picandies wrote:
Tue Mar 20, 2018 4:29 am
This being the graphics programming section, I'm rather surprised not to find a tutorials portion for comparing the various graphics packages & tutorials for using them. Since this is rpi hardware being used, any tutorial should of course include interfacing with the I/o hardware, such as reading a sensor, switches, , blinking some leds, etc. Is there a book or reference that compare the features of varous packages with complete demos/tutorials?
Some of the packages/helpers I've found:
EASYGUI, ELECTRON, GLADE, GTK, KIVY, LIANJA, NODE-RED, PICOGUI, PILLOW, PYCHARM, PYGAME, PYGTK, PYQT, PYQT5, PYQTGRAPH, PYSIDE, QTDESIGNER, MONO, MONODEVELOP, WXPYTHON, WXGLADE, PAGE, SCIPI, tkINTER, TkINTER, ttk, MATPLOTLIB, PYWAPI, BUNIFUPY, VISUAL STUDIO, XOJO
It seems strange, that with all of the displays that are now readily available, the corresponding rpi info on putting them to use appears to be a mish-mash.

User avatar
PeterO
Posts: 4041
Joined: Sun Jul 22, 2012 4:14 pm

Re: is there a tutorials section?

Tue Mar 20, 2018 6:50 am

picandies wrote:
Tue Mar 20, 2018 4:30 am
picandies wrote:
Tue Mar 20, 2018 4:29 am
This being the graphics programming section, I'm rather surprised not to find a tutorials portion for comparing the various graphics packages & tutorials for using them. Since this is rpi hardware being used,
, such as reading a sensor, switches, , blinking some leds, etc. Is there a book or reference that compare the features of varous packages with complete demos/tutorials?
Some of the packages/helpers I've found:
EASYGUI, ELECTRON, GLADE, GTK, KIVY, LIANJA, NODE-RED, PICOGUI, PILLOW, PYCHARM, PYGAME, PYGTK, PYQT, PYQT5, PYQTGRAPH, PYSIDE, QTDESIGNER, MONO, MONODEVELOP, WXPYTHON, WXGLADE, PAGE, SCIPI, tkINTER, TkINTER, ttk, MATPLOTLIB, PYWAPI, BUNIFUPY, VISUAL STUDIO, XOJO
It seems strange, that with all of the displays that are now readily available, the corresponding rpi info on putting them to use appears to be a mish-mash.
http://easygui.sourceforge.net/
https://electronjs.org/
https://glade.gnome.org/
https://www.gtk.org/
https://kivy.org/
.....

I could go on... There is a web site for all of those packages, non of which are PI specific and any tutorials will (ok should) work on a Pi.

And you have listed several different types of software in that list. For example Gtk is a "graphics toolkit", glade is a " Rapid Application Development tool", pyGtk is python wrapper around Gtk

You say "any tutorial should of course include interfacing with the I/o hardware" which they absolutely should not. Hardware interfacing is generally handled by other libraries written for the underlying language.

And a discussion forum is not the best place to present tutorial style information.

The best thing to do is pick a package, go and learn about it, and come back and tell us about your experience (good and bad).

PeterO
Discoverer of the PI2 XENON DEATH FLASH!
Interests: C,Python,PIC,Electronics,Ham Radio (G0DZB),Aeromodelling,1960s British Computers.
"The primary requirement (as we've always seen in your examples) is that the code is readable. " Dougie Lawson

picandies
Posts: 75
Joined: Wed Nov 26, 2014 5:13 pm

Re: is there a tutorials section?

Tue Mar 20, 2018 7:57 am

and any tutorials will (ok should) work on a Pi

Certainly, the "vendors" websites may have good starting info, or even info specific to the rpi. Unless the tutorial is pi-specific, how do you know which packages work well & seamlessly with the rpi & which ones require lots of arm-wrestling & band-aids? This might include modifying the installations, configuring certain files, requiring certain operating constraints, ...all things to be covered in an rpi tutorial Where do you look for rpi info and guidance...well, right here.

"any tutorial should of course include interfacing with the I/o hardware" which they absolutely should not.
Of course it could be included in any comprehensive project demo..This is not PC land, this is rpi world where we are actively interested in controlling real-world leds, motors, reading sensors, etc. Sweeping half the project under the rug, and dismissing it to simply use some unstated or possibly incompatible libraries seems shortsighted. What libraries work best with a given package? Which are seamless, or difficult to integrate with the graphics? It is helpful to see it tied together cohesively. setting up a real-time temperature monitor is more than selecting fonts & colors. Of course, this is not implying every demo needs this level of detail, but it is warmly welcomed when some do.

And a discussion forum is not the best place to present tutorial style information
True, but it is the perfect place to maintain a list of links to top-rated tutorials...interested in Glade on rpi?...look at these 3 where rpi was used to ..., looking for PYside, here's one using an rpi to make a....

User avatar
bensimmo
Posts: 2504
Joined: Sun Dec 28, 2014 3:02 pm
Location: East Yorkshire

Re: is there a tutorials section?

Tue Mar 20, 2018 8:11 am

They do have a simplified version of Tkinter/Python3 under the name of guizero

Here's my mumblings using it on a Pi with sensors.
viewtopic.php?t=202386

That's the sort of level Raspberry Pi target their tutorials at.

Everything else will be user made and you are free to go off and make some.

Sensors will be like any other programming for sensors.
GUI will be specific to whatever you are using, many now just use webpages as it's universal and IoT style for remote viewing.


GTK gui has a load stickied in this section.


A bit of Pygame/OGL for sensors here
http://blog.bitify.co.uk/2013/11/3d-ope ... m.html?m=1


There are plenty of different programming languages let along gui for them.

Get makeing some tutorials if you want to fill some gaps.

I'm ready to learn from them.
:-)

jamesh
Raspberry Pi Engineer & Forum Moderator
Raspberry Pi Engineer & Forum Moderator
Posts: 19141
Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2011 7:41 pm

Re: is there a tutorials section?

Tue Mar 20, 2018 9:50 am

Lots of tutorials on other people packages really is out of our remit. As others have said, there are plenty out there.

We do have plenty of project tutorials though, which are more in line with the Foundations aims.

https://projects.raspberrypi.org/en/
Principal Software Engineer at Raspberry Pi (Trading) Ltd.
Please direct all questions to the forum, I do not do support via PM.

picandies
Posts: 75
Joined: Wed Nov 26, 2014 5:13 pm

Re: is there a tutorials section?

Tue Mar 20, 2018 3:00 pm

We do have plenty of project tutorials though, which are more in line with the Foundations aims.


I didn't see any that used graphics (ex: monitor to control your fishtank). In the graphics help forum I'd expect to see links to different tutorials for doing actual graphics on the rpi, whether via the rpi org site or elsewhere. Would that not be desirable? Right now the use of rpi graphics seems rather disjointed, without a cohesive overview.

User avatar
bensimmo
Posts: 2504
Joined: Sun Dec 28, 2014 3:02 pm
Location: East Yorkshire

Re: is there a tutorials section?

Tue Mar 20, 2018 3:06 pm

Make some then and start adding links.
The forum is a community help forum, iirc.

picandies
Posts: 75
Joined: Wed Nov 26, 2014 5:13 pm

Re: is there a tutorials section?

Tue Mar 20, 2018 3:46 pm

Make some then and start adding links.
The forum is a community help forum, iirc.


My original question regarding the rpi graphics:
Is there a book or reference that compare the features of various packages with complete demos/tutorials?

If not, then I agree it is something to address. Maybe there is a book rpi graphics applicationsor similar.

jamesh
Raspberry Pi Engineer & Forum Moderator
Raspberry Pi Engineer & Forum Moderator
Posts: 19141
Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2011 7:41 pm

Re: is there a tutorials section?

Tue Mar 20, 2018 5:22 pm

Certainly on the trading side we simply do not have the manpower to do something like that, I have enough trouble keeping the documentation vaguely up to date. The Foundation side always seems to be employing more people, so maybe they are the ones to approach.
Principal Software Engineer at Raspberry Pi (Trading) Ltd.
Please direct all questions to the forum, I do not do support via PM.

User avatar
PeterO
Posts: 4041
Joined: Sun Jul 22, 2012 4:14 pm

Re: is there a tutorials section?

Tue Mar 20, 2018 5:40 pm

picandies wrote:
Tue Mar 20, 2018 3:46 pm
My original question regarding the rpi graphics:
None of the software you originally mentioned is pi specific, so your question is not about "pi graphics". Any tutorial about graphics programming on Linux should work.

To narrow things down a bit you would be better off to choose a programming language you know and then use your favourite search engine to search for "Graphics programming in <YOUR CHOSEN LANGUAGE>"

PeterO
Discoverer of the PI2 XENON DEATH FLASH!
Interests: C,Python,PIC,Electronics,Ham Radio (G0DZB),Aeromodelling,1960s British Computers.
"The primary requirement (as we've always seen in your examples) is that the code is readable. " Dougie Lawson

picandies
Posts: 75
Joined: Wed Nov 26, 2014 5:13 pm

Re: is there a tutorials section?

Tue Mar 20, 2018 9:47 pm

your question is not about "pi graphics

I queried because my question IS about rpi graphics & determining what is fully rpi supported to form a complete solution (other than simply displaying things). The particular language is not too important, since any of them will do & I'd have to become more familiar with them. Which package is responsive, easy to install on rpi, works well on latest Raspbian & BCM chips or needs specific workarounds, or should be avided due to many issues? Those answers are generally not on glade's or mono's websites, but should be on the rpi website (at least in terms of useful links, with appropriate comments), in my opinion.

For example, was looking very quickly at the monodevelop website (http://www.monodevelop.com) & it didn't appear you'd be able to use it on the pi to control things (motors and such). Weeks later, found out there are custom add-ins in monodevelop (nugets) to work directly with the rpi board. It would have been much quicker to find out about those on the rpi site (in the graphics-demos section).. Perhaps I'm simply expecting too much in assuming the rpi site is a repository of constantly updated rpi info. I'll certainly post my findings and hope a section could be set up to catalog others as well.

I've seen very similar forum questions posted many times; with touchscreens becoming cheap & waiting to be used, there's probably many in this boat.

User avatar
PeterO
Posts: 4041
Joined: Sun Jul 22, 2012 4:14 pm

Re: is there a tutorials section?

Tue Mar 20, 2018 10:05 pm

picandies wrote:
Tue Mar 20, 2018 9:47 pm
It would have been much quicker to find out about those on the rpi site (in the graphics-demos section)..
No one who understands what "graphics programming" is about would look for information about controlling devices in a section of a web forum titled "graphics programming".
PeterO
Discoverer of the PI2 XENON DEATH FLASH!
Interests: C,Python,PIC,Electronics,Ham Radio (G0DZB),Aeromodelling,1960s British Computers.
"The primary requirement (as we've always seen in your examples) is that the code is readable. " Dougie Lawson

picandies
Posts: 75
Joined: Wed Nov 26, 2014 5:13 pm

Re: is there a tutorials section?

Wed Mar 21, 2018 12:04 am

If I had an idea for a graphics-based project, I'd certainly look in the graphics area for ideas and examples, as well as other posting sections. I'm just not seeing much in this or any section. This was just a general observation & topic for discussion. Apparently, controlling the hardware with graphics is as simple as tossing in an unknown library & it will magically work with no explanations needed in tying it together with the graphics. Maybe it will become more obvious when thing are working.

jamesh
Raspberry Pi Engineer & Forum Moderator
Raspberry Pi Engineer & Forum Moderator
Posts: 19141
Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2011 7:41 pm

Re: is there a tutorials section?

Wed Mar 21, 2018 10:11 am

We simply do not have time to test every single graphics packages out there to see if it works on the Pi. In fact, we don't have time to test any of them. We test and document where we can our own software, and how to use it, or other people software (i.e. Linux itself) when its is used on the Pi as part of our installation (e.g setup up networking). However, it's not our job to test other people's software any a number of reasons, but here are some.

a) It's their software and their responsibility. Both for software quality and software usage i.e. tutorials.
b) There are 26000 packages in the Raspbian distro, there is no way we can test all of those!
c) If we chose a subset to test, how do we chose a subset?
d) Libraries requires someone who knows about the library and how to use it. We don't have anyone like that.
Principal Software Engineer at Raspberry Pi (Trading) Ltd.
Please direct all questions to the forum, I do not do support via PM.

User avatar
DougieLawson
Posts: 32106
Joined: Sun Jun 16, 2013 11:19 pm
Location: Basingstoke, UK
Contact: Website

Re: is there a tutorials section?

Wed Mar 21, 2018 11:13 am

picandies wrote:
Wed Mar 21, 2018 12:04 am
If I had an idea for a graphics-based project, I'd certainly look in the graphics area for ideas and examples, as well as other posting sections. I'm just not seeing much in this or any section. This was just a general observation & topic for discussion. Apparently, controlling the hardware with graphics is as simple as tossing in an unknown library & it will magically work with no explanations needed in tying it together with the graphics. Maybe it will become more obvious when thing are working.
viewforum.php?f=67 has more tutorial threads than you can shake a stick at. (They really shouldn't be here, the author should write them up in MarkDown on Github so that they could be published by James as a "beginners guide" in the Help section on here.)

If you need to connect a funky bit of hardware for your graphics stuff that's going to be documented on the vendors website.

If you want to start graphics programming then first you've got to pick a programming language that you are comfortable writing. Then start small, start with something like TKinter. Get a window on your screen, fill the window with widgets, make the widgets do something when you click them.

This forum isn't here to replace other web resources that you'll find with Google. Lots of software written for general purpose Linux systems with Xwindows will just work on your general purpose Raspberry Pi running Linux with Xwindows (strange concept that, that it "just works"). The thing you'll get from doing it is the learning experience which is the primary mission of the Raspberry Pi Foundation.

There's no rocket science here, it's just that YOU have to do the research to find the graphic programming (and funky hardware, if needed) to suit YOUR "graphic-based project". The alternative is to pay someone to do it for you. Commercial rates are around USD$120 per hour for a freelance programmer (and, no, I'm not offering to do that).
Microprocessor, Raspberry Pi & Arduino Hacker
Mainframe database troubleshooter
MQTT Evangelist
Twitter: @DougieLawson

2012-18: 1B*5, 2B*2, B+, A+, Z, ZW, 3B*3, 3B+

Please post ALL technical questions on the forum. Do not send private messages.

Return to “Graphics programming”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest