piense
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Pi 3B+ Improvements?

Wed Mar 14, 2018 2:21 pm

Anyone know if there's any significant improvements to the GPU on the Pi 3 B+? Seems like it'd just be a bit of clock bump if anything.

scotty101
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Re: Pi 3B+ Improvements?

Wed Mar 14, 2018 2:32 pm

Did you read the blog post and watch the video interview?

https://www.raspberrypi.org/blog/raspbe ... le-now-35/

Same but repackaged SoC that still uses VideoCore IV. So no change on the graphics.
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hansotten
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Re: Pi 3B+ Improvements?

Wed Mar 14, 2018 2:57 pm

The CPU clock on the 3B+ runs at 1.4 GHz, on the 3B at 1.2 GHz.

No changes on the GPU side afaik, not in performance nor capabilities.

So if the CPU is involved in creating graphics, some improvement in speed will be seen.
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piense
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Re: Pi 3B+ Improvements?

Wed Mar 14, 2018 3:42 pm

scotty101 wrote:
Wed Mar 14, 2018 2:32 pm
Same but repackaged SoC that still uses VideoCore IV. So no change on the graphics.
VideoCore IV is used in quite a few of the Pis so that's not a complete spec on the system by any means. With enhanced thermal properties they could update the clock speed and with a revision on the chip model number they could technically justify flipping bits in silicon that enable extra parts that might have been considered experimental on the last batch. Though as far as I understand it the GPU side isn't getting any R&D work by broadcom these days so I doubt much happened. It doesn't seem like GPU firmware updates ever held back from releases either so I doubt there's any big improvements there either.

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Re: Pi 3B+ Improvements?

Wed Mar 14, 2018 3:51 pm

For those who want to commercially use the product:

The dual-band wireless LAN comes with modular compliance certification, allowing the board to be designed into end products with significantly reduced wireless LAN compliance testing, improving both cost and time to market.

To be manufactured until at least 2023. A given production life of at least 5 years.

Gigabit Ethernet over USB 2.0 (maximum throughput 300Mbps).

POE option for those who want to have a permanent remote install with a wired network and have no remote power.

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rpdom
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Re: Pi 3B+ Improvements?

Wed Mar 14, 2018 6:47 pm

piense wrote:
Wed Mar 14, 2018 3:42 pm
VideoCore IV is used in quite a few of the Pis
Assuming you are talking about Raspberry Pis (if not, don't do it here as it is off topic), the VC4 is used on ALL Pis released to date.
they could technically justify flipping bits in silicon that enable extra parts that might have been considered experimental on the last batch.
The VC4 itself hasn't changed. Experimental features may exist for the VC5, but whether that might be used in a Pi or not...

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Re: Pi 3B+ Improvements?

Wed Mar 14, 2018 7:45 pm

piense wrote:
Wed Mar 14, 2018 3:42 pm
scotty101 wrote:
Wed Mar 14, 2018 2:32 pm
Same but repackaged SoC that still uses VideoCore IV. So no change on the graphics.
VideoCore IV is used in quite a few of the Pis so that's not a complete spec on the system by any means. With enhanced thermal properties they could update the clock speed and with a revision on the chip model number they could technically justify flipping bits in silicon that enable extra parts that might have been considered experimental on the last batch. Though as far as I understand it the GPU side isn't getting any R&D work by broadcom these days so I doubt much happened. It doesn't seem like GPU firmware updates ever held back from releases either so I doubt there's any big improvements there either.
Firmware is just software - it cannot increase the speed of the HW, it can only be made the best it can be. And it already had a lot of optimisation, so its running pretty fast. SO performance improvements via firmware updates are unlikely. Bug fixes are fairly common though.

We are thinking of defaulting the GPU clock speeds a bit higher, but will need thorough testing.

AFAIK there are no bits in the silicon to turn on hidden features - they are already all turned on.
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paulslocum
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Re: Pi 3B+ Improvements?

Wed Mar 14, 2018 7:49 pm

When do you expect US retailers to have stock?

I'm really grateful to have a company like Raspberry Pi Foundation that isn't churning out new products as fast as they possibly can. The Raspberry Pi is great because they've taken the time to perfect it. If you start digging through the bug logs on Omxplayer etc., you start to realize how long it takes to not only develop the software, but also to have a lot of really substantial user testing to find all the bugs.

piense
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Re: Pi 3B+ Improvements?

Wed Mar 14, 2018 8:03 pm

jamesh wrote:
Wed Mar 14, 2018 7:45 pm
Firmware is just software - it cannot increase the speed of the HW, it can only be made the best it can be. And it already had a lot of optimisation, so its running pretty fast. SO performance improvements via firmware updates are unlikely. Bug fixes are fairly common though.

We are thinking of defaulting the GPU clock speeds a bit higher, but will need thorough testing.

AFAIK there are no bits in the silicon to turn on hidden features - they are already all turned on.
Thanks James.

As far as firmware, I just meant that breaking changes are sometimes held back or major features released to coincide with other major updates. I definitely appreciate you guys keeping up on bug fixes for that firmware.

Guess we'll just have to hope for VC5 in the next Pi for some new silicon. I keep thinking the next Pi will have to jump to a different SoC family but apparently there's enough of them in the world to warrant some-what customized parts from Broadcom.

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Re: Pi 3B+ Improvements?

Wed Mar 14, 2018 8:36 pm

paulslocum wrote:
Wed Mar 14, 2018 7:49 pm
When do you expect US retailers to have stock?

I'm really grateful to have a company like Raspberry Pi Foundation that isn't churning out new products as fast as they possibly can. The Raspberry Pi is great because they've taken the time to perfect it. If you start digging through the bug logs on Omxplayer etc., you start to realize how long it takes to not only develop the software, but also to have a lot of really substantial user testing to find all the bugs.
Should already be in stock. We primed the supply chain worldwide.

Thanks for the comments on our release schedules. We are VERY particular about getting it right, working correctly, getting the right certifications etc. It is a long process if you want to do it right. Always annoying to see people (like some comments above) saying we should just change SoC, or add this or that feature, when they really have no idea of the time and complexity involved. You only have to look at the number of failed kickstarters to see how difficult it is to release a 'real' product.
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klricks
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Re: Pi 3B+ Improvements?

Wed Mar 14, 2018 9:38 pm

I ordered from Newark at 05:00 and the RPi3B+ shows as back-ordered until 9 April.
Unless specified otherwise my response is based on the latest and fully updated Raspbian Stretch w/ Desktop OS.

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Re: Pi 3B+ Improvements?

Wed Mar 14, 2018 9:50 pm

klricks wrote:
Wed Mar 14, 2018 9:38 pm
I ordered from Newark at 05:00 and the RPi3B+ shows as back-ordered until 9 April.
Odd, I know multiple 100k's were manufactured up front, maybe it's talking a bit long to get to the the resellers in quantity. Or we have sold them all already, which seems unlikely.
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laurent
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Re: Pi 3B+ Improvements?

Tue Mar 27, 2018 2:12 pm

jamesh wrote:
Wed Mar 14, 2018 8:36 pm
paulslocum wrote:
Wed Mar 14, 2018 7:49 pm
When do you expect US retailers to have stock?

I'm really grateful to have a company like Raspberry Pi Foundation that isn't churning out new products as fast as they possibly can. The Raspberry Pi is great because they've taken the time to perfect it. If you start digging through the bug logs on Omxplayer etc., you start to realize how long it takes to not only develop the software, but also to have a lot of really substantial user testing to find all the bugs.
Should already be in stock. We primed the supply chain worldwide.

Thanks for the comments on our release schedules. We are VERY particular about getting it right, working correctly, getting the right certifications etc. It is a long process if you want to do it right. Always annoying to see people (like some comments above) saying we should just change SoC, or add this or that feature, when they really have no idea of the time and complexity involved. You only have to look at the number of failed kickstarters to see how difficult it is to release a 'real' product.
And keep going this way please.
Your success wouldn't last that longer if you weren't paid attention to software and compatibility.
Breaking compatibility means breaking software base and community, which are quite precious.
Unfortunately, people always wants to buy specs sheets before functionalities.

jahboater
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Re: Pi 3B+ Improvements?

Tue Mar 27, 2018 2:22 pm

laurent wrote:
Tue Mar 27, 2018 2:12 pm
And keep going this way please.
Your success wouldn't last that longer if you weren't paid attention to software and compatibility.
Breaking compatibility means breaking software base and community, which are quite precious.
Unfortunately, people always wants to buy specs sheets before functionalities.
It is self perpetuating is it not?
The huge sales volume means the RPF can afford a team of really good engineers to get it right, and also the products are so very widely used that bugs get found rapidly.

But yes, quality always pays!

jamesh
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Re: Pi 3B+ Improvements?

Tue Mar 27, 2018 3:18 pm

jahboater wrote:
Tue Mar 27, 2018 2:22 pm
laurent wrote:
Tue Mar 27, 2018 2:12 pm
And keep going this way please.
Your success wouldn't last that longer if you weren't paid attention to software and compatibility.
Breaking compatibility means breaking software base and community, which are quite precious.
Unfortunately, people always wants to buy specs sheets before functionalities.
It is self perpetuating is it not?
The huge sales volume means the RPF can afford a team of really good engineers to get it right, and also the products are so very widely used that bugs get found rapidly.

But yes, quality always pays!
True that.
Principal Software Engineer at Raspberry Pi (Trading) Ltd.
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rainer.brito
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Re: Pi 3B+ Improvements?

Wed Mar 28, 2018 4:34 pm

jamesh wrote:
Wed Mar 14, 2018 7:45 pm
We are thinking of defaulting the GPU clock speeds a bit higher, but will need thorough testing.
Oho, nice!! :D
May you tell us more about that?

Thanks!

jamesh
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Re: Pi 3B+ Improvements?

Wed Mar 28, 2018 8:26 pm

rainer.brito wrote:
Wed Mar 28, 2018 4:34 pm
jamesh wrote:
Wed Mar 14, 2018 7:45 pm
We are thinking of defaulting the GPU clock speeds a bit higher, but will need thorough testing.
Oho, nice!! :D
May you tell us more about that?

Thanks!
Not much to say really - we have a bit of headroom on the GPU clocks, which you can already get at using the overclocking options.
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