plugwash
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator
Posts: 3454
Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2011 11:45 pm

looking for in-kind donation of a public server

Wed Jun 06, 2012 1:19 am

Raspbian needs a machine to act as the public face of the project, hosting the website and any other public facing services we deem the project to require and acting as the primary distribution point to mirrors and users.

If raspbian becomes popular this could potentially use a hell of a lot of bandwidth. So plans with punitive overage charges (and pretty much all metered plans seemed to have punitive overage charges) were NOT acceptable. We would rather the repo became slow because of a cap on data rate (thereby encouraging users to move to mirrors) than to have either expensive overage charges or a loss of service when traffic allowances ran out.

Currently we use a dreamhost dedicated server for this. It works ok (though we have had some problems dealing with dreamhost) but it represents the largest ongoing cost of the project. So I ask is anyone in a position to donate suitable hosting. Suitable is defined as

1: a decent data rate (at least 10 megabit preferably more) available to us
2: a system we can control, a dedicated server would be preferred, a well provisioned VM would be acceptable
3: a reasonably long term commitment, we don't want to be moving this server every month or so.
4: a proper server connection where noone will mind if we end up maxing out the data rate available to us.

User avatar
nick.mccloud
Posts: 804
Joined: Sat Feb 04, 2012 4:18 pm

Re: looking for in-kind donation of a public server

Wed Jun 06, 2012 7:47 am

How much disk space is required?

I take it you'd prefer state side as well?

plugwash
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator
Posts: 3454
Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2011 11:45 pm

Re: looking for in-kind donation of a public server

Wed Jun 06, 2012 11:44 am

nick.mccloud wrote:How much disk space is required?
Currently the repo is about 90 gigabytes but i'd expect that to grow considerablly over time both because of natural growth of debian and because we will want to keep both stable and testing versions of raspbian available at the same time after wheezy releases.

We would also want to have enough space to store a second copy of the repo in case we need to copy it before performing some large scale manipulation.

So i'd say for the next few years arround 500 gigabytes should do it
I take it you'd prefer state side as well?
I don't think it really matters much.

ianjcraven
Posts: 16
Joined: Mon May 14, 2012 8:19 am
Contact: Website

Re: looking for in-kind donation of a public server

Wed Jun 06, 2012 1:14 pm

I would suggest servage.net if you have a few spare pounds per month...

I currently host with them as they have unlimited diskspace & unlimited bandwidth - and if you pay for 1 year, you get 14months hosting.

Not a dedicated server with full root access, but lots of diskspace & bandwidth plus you can also host the site there too if all you need is php/mysql for a cms/wiki.

if you'd like to do some testing, then I'd be happy to help with setting up some ftp access etc.

I currently have a site hosted on there serving files for various projects/sites - http://www.trs-gaming.com/downloads/

plugwash
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator
Posts: 3454
Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2011 11:45 pm

Re: looking for in-kind donation of a public server

Wed Jun 06, 2012 2:21 pm

Sure they say unlimited in their advertising but lets look at what the terms and conditions actually say
Customer agrees that bandwidth and disk usage shall be used on a fair use policy base. Sites that consume very high badwidth or diskspace resources on a regular basis period will be disabled and client must look for another Web hosting provider to accommodate those high resources needs. Servage will monitor Customers bandwidth and disk usage. Servage shall have the right to take corrective action if Customers bandwidth or disk usage exceeds the Agreed Usage. Such corrective action may include the assessment of additional charges, disconnection or discontinuance of any and all Services, or termination of this Agreement, which actions may be taken is in Servages sole and absolute discretion. If Servage takes any corrective action under this section, Customer shall not be entitled to a refund of any fees paid in advance prior to such action. Disk space is intended for normal, webhosting related use only, and is limited to Web files, e-mail and content of the hosted Web sites, not for storage of media or other data. Disk space may not be used as offsite storage (e.g. remote backups) for electronic files or for third party electronic mail or FTP hosts.
So lets see

They reserve the right to kick out high usage sites with no refunds.
They reserve the right to asses unspecified additional charges
Their list of explicitly banned activities comes perilously close to what raspbian are doing (technically the raspbian repo is our creation but many of the files in it are not).

ianjcraven
Posts: 16
Joined: Mon May 14, 2012 8:19 am
Contact: Website

Re: looking for in-kind donation of a public server

Wed Jun 06, 2012 2:49 pm

plugwash wrote:Sure they say unlimited in their advertising but lets look at what the terms and conditions actually say
Customer agrees that bandwidth and disk usage shall be used on a fair use policy base. Sites that consume very high badwidth or diskspace resources on a regular basis period will be disabled and client must look for another Web hosting provider to accommodate those high resources needs. Servage will monitor Customers bandwidth and disk usage. Servage shall have the right to take corrective action if Customers bandwidth or disk usage exceeds the Agreed Usage. Such corrective action may include the assessment of additional charges, disconnection or discontinuance of any and all Services, or termination of this Agreement, which actions may be taken is in Servages sole and absolute discretion. If Servage takes any corrective action under this section, Customer shall not be entitled to a refund of any fees paid in advance prior to such action. Disk space is intended for normal, webhosting related use only, and is limited to Web files, e-mail and content of the hosted Web sites, not for storage of media or other data. Disk space may not be used as offsite storage (e.g. remote backups) for electronic files or for third party electronic mail or FTP hosts.
So lets see

They reserve the right to kick out high usage sites with no refunds.
They reserve the right to asses unspecified additional charges
Their list of explicitly banned activities comes perilously close to what raspbian are doing (technically the raspbian repo is our creation but many of the files in it are not).
Thats a shame, the most space I've used over the last couple of years is about 25GB with some high traffic months, and not had any problems. That being said, it might be worth talking to them 1st and seeing if they are happy to host what you want to do, knowing before hand what sort of usage/bw might be. You never know, they might be up for sponsoring you with some hosting.

As my dad always says... "if you don't ask, you don't get!" :)

darkbasic
Posts: 29
Joined: Sun Jun 03, 2012 6:30 pm

Re: looking for in-kind donation of a public server

Thu Jun 07, 2012 5:34 pm

Having IPv6 would be nice too.

plugwash
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator
Posts: 3454
Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2011 11:45 pm

Re: looking for in-kind donation of a public server

Fri Jun 08, 2012 1:22 pm

darkbasic wrote:Having IPv6 would be nice too.
meh, IPv6 is nice for some things but for a web and download server it isn't really nessacery since those services work fine through NAT.

ccomp
Posts: 11
Joined: Sun Jun 10, 2012 9:51 pm

Re: looking for in-kind donation of a public server

Sun Jun 10, 2012 9:55 pm

Have you considered kimsufi.com (ovh server).

They provide 100mbps "unlimited" but if you start going crazy on the bandwidth theyll limit the server to 10mbps.

I might be able to get you a free VPS from micronetvps.com, just need to check with the boss (especially about bandwidth usage).

Myst
Posts: 6
Joined: Sat May 05, 2012 8:28 pm

Re: looking for in-kind donation of a public server

Mon Jun 11, 2012 1:20 am

-> http://www.ovh.co.uk/dedicated_servers/

OVH already mirror a lot of open-source projects : http://mirror.ovh.net/
Try to ask OVH founder (Octave) : http://twitter.com/#!/olesovhcom

User avatar
nick.mccloud
Posts: 804
Joined: Sat Feb 04, 2012 4:18 pm

Re: looking for in-kind donation of a public server

Mon Jun 11, 2012 8:52 am

I'm constantly on the lookout for reliable hosting deals - one I found a few weeks back for a real value dedicated server setup is no longer responding on the internet so I'm grateful I didn't sign up there.

The considerable challenge is that no sane ISP should offer unlimited bandwidth. Pricing is all over the place and you have to wonder at how there are so many different business models.

After re-reviewing my list, I'd take a cue from hexxeh's EU hosting provider, may be a VPS at Giga-Hosting.biz would be the way forward. I'd hate to split funding away from Mike's considerable investment but maybe donations could be sought for one of the larger capacity setups.

How pressing is the need for a large amount of disk space? Do we need to relieve Mike of the burden of the current server costs asap and then move on from there?

How desperate is the speed requirement (that which should properly called bandwidth but isn't). Initially are there likely to be that many users simultaneously downloading?

I am likely to reach a tipping point at some point on having to host my own server but I've yet to find a sensible arrangement for capacity (that which is called bandwidth but shouldn't be) that doesn't penalise me on overage.

Fanjita
Posts: 17
Joined: Thu Jun 07, 2012 9:31 am
Location: Edinburgh, UK
Contact: Website

Re: looking for in-kind donation of a public server

Mon Jun 11, 2012 10:03 am

For a long time I've used the dedicated root server hosting at www.hetzner.de.

Their prices are very low for what they offer, their support is excellent, and their traffic allowances are excellent. If you exceed the traffic cap, then you get throttled to a slower bandwidth - but your service continues, which I think is what you're looking for.

plugwash
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator
Posts: 3454
Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2011 11:45 pm

Re: looking for in-kind donation of a public server

Mon Jun 11, 2012 10:51 am

Thanks for the information.

We are currently following up a donated hosting offer from an established hosting provider. I will reveal who it is once things are sorted out. If it falls through then we will have to consider the other options people are mentioning.

ccomp
Posts: 11
Joined: Sun Jun 10, 2012 9:51 pm

Re: looking for in-kind donation of a public server

Tue Jun 12, 2012 9:00 pm

Hi,

We are currently looking into the possiblity of setting up special vps' on each of our nodes to provide only free capacity and bandwidth but we have to see if this is technically feasible (without affecting our customers). If we can do this we too would be happy to donate bandwidth (currently have nodes in USA and turkey).

Which ever host you decide, I think it would be wise to have a setup similar to the raspberrypi cdn and have multiple servers from multiple file hosts (some donated, some bought with donation money etc) to provide the best redundancy and performance for everyone.

I would be happy to help with the setup of this if volunteer time is needed.

plugwash
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator
Posts: 3454
Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2011 11:45 pm

Re: looking for in-kind donation of a public server

Tue Jun 12, 2012 9:39 pm

ccomp wrote:Hi,

We are currently looking into the possiblity of setting up special vps' on each of our nodes to provide only free capacity and bandwidth but we have to see if this is technically feasible (without affecting our customers). If we can do this we too would be happy to donate bandwidth (currently have nodes in USA and turkey).
Thanks, while we are not looking for a main host anymore (I think it's very unlikely that the current offer will fall through and it's a VERY nice offer from a company I know and trust) it would be good to improve the geograpic spread of our mirrors (which right now are very focussed on western europe). So feel free to start mirroring whenever you like and post up your mirror.
Which ever host you decide, I think it would be wise to have a setup similar to the raspberrypi cdn and have multiple servers from multiple file hosts (some donated, some bought with donation money etc) to provide the best redundancy and performance for everyone.

I would be happy to help with the setup of this if volunteer time is needed.
I've opened a seperate thread to discuss this. It will likely be a somewhat different setup from the raspberrypi cdn though because of the characteristics of it being a repo rather than a collection of small mirrors.

http://www.raspberrypi.org/phpBB3/viewforum.php?f=66

Return to “Raspbian”