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Montala
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Re: New Raspbian "Pisces" Image

Sat Jun 02, 2012 11:53 am

mpthompson wrote:[I'll update the Wiki page to reflect the alternate ways of getting things to work. I should be getting my own Pi today (to augment the one I'm borrowing) and I'll then have two Pis to investigate this issue further. Once I understand the correct way of handling this issue in an image, I'll update the "pisces" image that is on the server.
Hi Mike,
I hope you are enjoying having your very own Pi! ;)

Having read that you will shortly be updating the "pisces" image, I think that I might just wait for that to arrive, before having a 'test run'.

I must add here that I am very impressed indeed with your wiki website, and also at the speed at which things seem to be happening!

Keep up the good work, and I am sure you will quickly attract many faithful followers.

plugwash
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Re: New Raspbian "Pisces" Image

Sat Jun 02, 2012 12:00 pm

The trick with network adaptor names is to modify the rule in /etc/udev/rules.d/70-persistent-net.rules to match on something other than mac address (driver name is probablly best since the SMSC chip is rarely seen seperately in my experiance).

If you just remove the entry then a new one will be generated on next boot but if you change it to match on something other than mac address then your entry will stay and continue to match as the card is moved arround between Pis

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Davespice
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Re: New Raspbian "Pisces" Image

Sat Jun 02, 2012 2:23 pm

dukla2000 wrote:
tomgus1 wrote:I can bring up a terminal and use Windows key +e, they both work. I was just curious as to whether anyone else had this issue and if they managed to fix it.
I dont think it is an issue - it is a feature! If you check openbox.org you can see the whole point is minimalist, but if you really want there are all kinds of themes, taskbars and panel bits that can be added. I tried (and failed) to add fbpanel, but figure I can do everything I need from the file manager so stopped bothering. Yeah being able to extend the menu would be elegant, making the Exit option actually work equally so. But I am quite happy to sudo reboot or shutdown from a terminal prompt for now and get on with other stuff.
I am not sure if this is intentional. If you load X under root then LXDE comes up with the launcher menu and task bar as expected. Only reason I say this is that the Pisces Images page makes no mention of OpenBox, but does mention LXDE. So I am wondering if the issue is some kind of permissions problem?

I have also found an issue with the c++ tool chain. The hello_pi programs compile okay (under root) but when you run the executables you receive the message error while loading shared libraries: libGLESv2.so: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory". The file it's complaining about is present under /opt/vc/lib though. So perhaps this is an environment path variable not set correctly. Not sure what to do to correct that though. I know it works off the bat with the Squeeze image. Advice welcome.

On another tangential note. I think we shouldn't cultivate an attitude which ridicules 'the kids these days' wanting guis, menus and launcher bars. I think that attitude is kind of destructive, excludes newbies and is at odds with the goals of the Raspberry Pi project.

lanlafi
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Re: New Raspbian "Pisces" Image

Sat Jun 02, 2012 2:43 pm

I miss the shutdown, restart options on the GUI menu when logging out as raspbian user. They are present in the "standard" Debian image.

tvservice doesn't work in pisces:
[email protected]:~# /opt/vc/bin/tvservice
-su: /opt/vc/bin/tvservice: No such file or directory

add /opt/vc/lib into ld.so.conf.d, please.

john.mills
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Re: New Raspbian "Pisces" Image

Sat Jun 02, 2012 2:55 pm

Hi Dave,

I totally agree with this :
On another tangential note. I think we shouldn't cultivate an attitude which ridicules 'the kids these days' wanting guis, menus and launcher bars. I think that attitude is kind of destructive, excludes newbies and is at odds with the goals of the Raspberry Pi project.
If anything the Pi is primarily not a toy for 'elitist' command line zealots. I know there is the expectation that us tinkerers can iron over bugs to get a working system by dropping down in to vi. But, we are a very small percentage of the target audience. The Pi will be shipping to hundreds of thousands of inexperienced children in the coming months. They will want an environment that is familiar and not imposing. Providing the best possible interface and software for them is what will make the Pi a success or failure.

For the 'experts' remember that it will always be possible to drop down to a terminal emulator and tinker to your heart's content. But this should not be only the goal of an educational / general desktop release .

Raspbian has the opportunity to be the best release for the Pi, the sources are available so there is no reason why any one with the experience can't produce the a more slimmed / lean release if the want to. I think the Raspbian project could prove to be the default shipping image if the community pulls around this project. Certainly Fedora and Arch aren't providing a significantly better experience now. Just look at the number of posts in the Raspbian forums compared to the other Linux versions.

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Davespice
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Re: New Raspbian "Pisces" Image

Sat Jun 02, 2012 3:48 pm

lanlafi wrote:add /opt/vc/lib into ld.so.conf.d, please.
I take it this will fix the hello_pi problems I reported above?
Can you point me to where this file is located... I tried to use find -name to locate it without success.

Thanks in advance!

trn
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Re: New Raspbian "Pisces" Image

Sat Jun 02, 2012 5:47 pm

Im instaling raspbian, and i have some q:

1. openbox after startx is not over all screen, why and how to correct this

2. overclock, is same as on other distro, on /boot config.txt and cpufreq=800 ?

3. where to type tint2 to automatic starting tint2 after startx

4. which service to simple DNS service, bind is too big, what u suggest

5. which program to streaming radio in console

6.iceweasel is not show html5 video from youtube, anybody how to to play?

7. omxplayer is not in any repo, how to install omxplayer

lanlafi
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Re: New Raspbian "Pisces" Image

Sat Jun 02, 2012 5:51 pm

Davespice wrote:
lanlafi wrote:add /opt/vc/lib into ld.so.conf.d, please.
I take it this will fix the hello_pi problems I reported above?
Can you point me to where this file is located... I tried to use find -name to locate it without success.

Thanks in advance!
This adds the libraries in /opt/vc/lib so the system finds them.

(commands as root)
cd /etc/ld.so.conf.d/
echo /opt/vc/lib >broadcomlib.conf
ldconfig

trn
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Re: New Raspbian "Pisces" Image

Sat Jun 02, 2012 6:52 pm

8. how to disable screen saver

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bigsi111
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Re: New Raspbian "Pisces" Image

Sat Jun 02, 2012 7:03 pm

I'm enjoying Raspian and notice an improvement in terms of speed, there's a few issues, but I'm sure they'll be ironed out soon.

Well done all

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Re: New Raspbian "Pisces" Image

Sat Jun 02, 2012 9:35 pm

john.mills wrote: If anything the Pi is primarily not a toy for 'elitist' command line zealots. I know there is the expectation that us tinkerers can iron over bugs to get a working system by dropping down in to vi. But, we are a very small percentage of the target audience. The Pi will be shipping to hundreds of thousands of inexperienced children in the coming months. They will want an environment that is familiar and not imposing. Providing the best possible interface and software for them is what will make the Pi a success or failure.

For the 'experts' remember that it will always be possible to drop down to a terminal emulator and tinker to your heart's content. But this should not be only the goal of an educational / general desktop release .
But... The RaspPi is not capable of running a full bells-and-whistles GUI and it is supposed to be a learning environment. In my view we would do no favours to anyone if we provided a Windows-identical GUI that was horribly slow to use and promoted a point and click mentality. Of course it should not be imposing, but I think we can aim to build an efficient and educational development platform, rather than an inefficient Internet and games platform with a couple of development icons provided. I'm not seriously suggesting that we should give them a blank screen and an xterm, I was merely responding to the bug report that icons and task-bar had disappeared with a reminiscence to the effect that we shouldn't be scared of cutting out bling. That applies especially to bling that hides stuff that they need to know and that they can learn painlessly if we give them the right tools.

"Kids these days..." was meant to evoke the Four Yorkshiremen. Apologies if it was misunderstood.

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Davespice
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Re: New Raspbian "Pisces" Image

Sat Jun 02, 2012 10:15 pm

lanlafi wrote:tvservice doesn't work in pisces:
Try this;
sudo ln -s /lib/ld-linux-armhf.so.3 /lib/ld-linux.so.3
rurwin wrote:But... The RaspPi is not capable of running a full bells-and-whistles GUI and it is supposed to be a learning environment. In my view we would do no favours to anyone if we provided a Windows-identical GUI that was horribly slow to use and promoted a point and click mentality.
I take the point of what is being said here, however I'm not sure anyone is asking for a full bells and whistles GUI. I thought LXDE was quite a no bells or whistles UI myself, it certainly is if you compare it to Ubuntu, OSX or Windows.

dukla2000
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Re: New Raspbian "Pisces" Image

Sat Jun 02, 2012 11:27 pm

trn wrote:1. openbox after startx is not over all screen, why and how to correct this
Check out the setting up HDMI thread.
trn wrote:2. overclock, is same as on other distro, on /boot config.txt and cpufreq=800 ?
Yes
Daily driver: Pi3B, 64GB Samsung Evo+ @100MHz, DVB-T, onboard WiFi for internet, BT/USB dongle for KB/mouse, 250GB HDD via USB for media, Raspbian Jessie Lite with Openbox desktop.
Museum: Pi B

dukla2000
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Re: New Raspbian "Pisces" Image

Sat Jun 02, 2012 11:41 pm

I apologise if my reply appeared to ridicule anyone - it was not my intent.
john.mills wrote:... They will want an environment that is familiar ...
I thought it was precisely the objective of the RPF to get kids away from their familiar environments so that they learn to program and how computers actually work rather than just being users.

Yup I am a GOG with a toy, but (tenuously linking back to the thread topic!) I figure Raspian is a giant leap in a few weeks towards my possible goal of retiring my desktop computer. My computer usage is 98% browsing and email, I do like a mouse and a GUI but plainly on a $35 computer I will have to sacrifice some things. I think it will be possible to do my browsing and email on a Pi, just I will have to do it differently to how I do it today. Raspian with openbox (compared to stock Debian with LXDE) has shown me I will have to sacrifice less than I thought.
Daily driver: Pi3B, 64GB Samsung Evo+ @100MHz, DVB-T, onboard WiFi for internet, BT/USB dongle for KB/mouse, 250GB HDD via USB for media, Raspbian Jessie Lite with Openbox desktop.
Museum: Pi B

john.mills
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Re: New Raspbian "Pisces" Image

Sun Jun 03, 2012 5:22 am

Hi all,

I just wanted to clarify a few points I think I might of been misunderstood.
But... The RaspPi is not capable of running a full bells-and-whistles GUI and it is supposed to be a learning environment. In my view we would do no favours to anyone if we provided a Windows-identical GUI that was horribly slow to use and promoted a point and click mentality. Of course it should not be imposing, but I think we can aim to build an efficient and educational development platform, rather than an inefficient Internet and games platform with a couple of development icons provided. I'm not seriously suggesting that we should give them a blank screen and an xterm, I was merely responding to the bug report that icons and task-bar had disappeared with a reminiscence to the effect that we shouldn't be scared of cutting out bling. That applies especially to bling that hides stuff that they need to know and that they can learn painlessly if we give them the right tools.

"Kids these days..." was meant to evoke the Four Yorkshiremen. Apologies if it was misunderstood.
No apologies needed, I completely understood the reference. 'Appen he's rate.'

I do however have some thoughts regarding the so called 'point and click mentality.' If you think about applications like Scratch visual information and interaction is crucial. A small child of the age of 5 or 6 sitting in front of a computer is more able to understand basic logic constructs by interacting with them in a graphical manner. The WIMP metaphor is certainly hear to stay and not going anywhere soon. If anything the next area I would like to see taught to children is the touch metaphor so prevalent on mobile devices.

Also I think an environment like LXDE provides enough familiarity not just to the child, but also teacher that learning will be accelerated. It is a relaity that 99% of computer users either run MS Windows or Apple OSX on their desktops. As the Pi is primarily a 'desktop' computer to provide an interface that is so different will hinder the child once he / she 'grows' out of the Pi. I am not saying that one should blindly copy, but familiarity will speed the uptake of the Pi. A good many children are 'taught' ICT in schools by over worked and not tech literate teachers. The Pi is not just about creating the next generation of wonder programmers but also introducing children how to use a computer in a productive manner and inform them of some of the mechanics behind the interface.

I also believe (though I have to say my Pi has not arrived yet) that the hardware is capable of running a modern desktop environment. I realise KDE, GNOME, Unity etc are out of the question, but I was running an Amiga 4000 in my youth that had much less technical capabilities than the Pi and it was fast and I learned a lot. Likewise I had a Pentium 100 laptop running Windows 98 SE with only 32MB RAM and despite the lack of some pretty graphics the interface there is not a whole lot different from Windows 7. I ran Delphi, MS Office 97, Visual Basic and did not feel constrained. Yes times of moved on, of course, but if the interface is chosen well a lot can be accomplished, considerably more than only having icons on a desktop to open applications. I mentioned Mephis Antix before, perhaps this or LMDE could prove a good template to follow if targeted towards an specific release strategy. I am aware the Mike Thompson would like to see something like Mint ported if possible.

Also, I think providing an efficient Internet Browser (in as much as possible) is also key, so many online courses are available for children to partake in. My own children are big fans of a web site called Mathletics, I know this is flash based, but you get the idea. The Foundation could also deliver education material through this medium for children to follow in clash.

Thanks all.

RussB
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Re: New Raspbian "Pisces" Image

Mon Jun 04, 2012 7:55 pm

marsman2020 wrote:Russ - can you add your findings to the bug on github at https://github.com/raspberrypi/linux/issues/29 ? Especially that it happens in Raspbian as well as Squeeze.

I've found that installing gpm (console mouse driver) and starting it can also cause the issue with the pings.

Still haven't managed to convince some folks that it's not a power issue, I'm going to have to go use the oscilloscope at my hackerspace to prove that I guess.
Will do, I've repeated the testing today with the Debian image and the Raspbian images and can reproduce the issue on both, I'll dig out my digital multimeter to get some readings and then will update your bug report with my findings.

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Re: New Raspbian "Pisces" Image

Tue Jun 05, 2012 7:03 pm

I just got my Pi yesterday and installed the Debian image. It worked OK but when I ran Midori there was a problem with the CPU usage going to 100% and not being able to type. So I thought I'd give Pisces a try and it does seem to have solved that problem. Apparently it has the same problem as Debian with DHCP.

One question (so far), when I tried to launch Midori from the panel, nothing happened. So I tried searching for it in the menu and it wasn't there. So I tried launching it from a terminal and it said it wasn't found. I had to use apt-get to install it. Apparently there is no browser installed as part of the image. Or did I do something wrong?

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Re: New Raspbian "Pisces" Image

Tue Jun 05, 2012 8:39 pm

lewmur wrote:Apparently there is no browser installed as part of the image. Or did I do something wrong?
Nothing wrong. The image did not include a browser and you had to install one using apt-get.

marsman2020
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Re: New Raspbian "Pisces" Image

Tue Jun 05, 2012 9:14 pm

I recommend trying chromium-browser (the open source branded version of Google Chrome) as well as midori.

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mpthompson
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Re: New Raspbian "Pisces" Image

Tue Jun 05, 2012 10:33 pm

marsman2020 wrote:I recommend trying chromium-browser (the open source branded version of Google Chrome) as well as midori.
Unfortunatley, chromium-browser is having problems building. There is another thread on the chromium browser with the details of the build failure. Hopefully someone can point to what the fix would be.

trn
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Re: New Raspbian "Pisces" Image

Wed Jun 06, 2012 5:47 pm

My rpi is hangout.
In which logs must look if something is wrong?

brocja01
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Re: New Raspbian "Pisces" Image

Thu Jun 07, 2012 2:52 pm

Hey all, I'm getting a GPG error when I try and do an apt-get update. Any suggestions? I have a firewall here at work, and need a browser to log in, and since there isn't a browser installed, I'm running into some issues I think. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
JBro

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mpthompson
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Re: New Raspbian "Pisces" Image

Thu Jun 07, 2012 5:15 pm

brocja01 wrote:Hey all, I'm getting a GPG error when I try and do an apt-get update. Any suggestions?
Sounds like the GPG public keys for apt-get are no longer on your system. You can try the information at the following link to restore them:

http://www.raspbian.org/RaspbianFAQ#Wha ... ository.3F

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mpthompson
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Re: New Raspbian "Pisces" Image

Thu Jun 07, 2012 5:19 pm

trn wrote:In which logs must look if something is wrong?
In general, the directory '/var/log' should contain the logs you'll want to look at. Depending on the nature of the problem the files 'messages', 'syslog', 'dmesg', 'debug', 'daemon.log', 'auth.log' and others may have useful information.

Keep in mind that if your Raspberry Pi is locking up hard, the kernel may not have a chance to write log information to the file system before the system crashes. In that case, you may not find information related to the crash in the logs.

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Re: New Raspbian "Pisces" Image

Fri Jun 29, 2012 2:40 pm

Fantastic work on this!
Having just got my Pi today, first port of call was to get 'Pisces' running - primarily due it using hardfloat but also because of the automated ssh.

Just a slight hiccup, during initial setup:

Code: Select all

sudo apt-get update && apt-get dist-update
complains about not being able to access the lock file

Code: Select all

sudo touch /var/lib/dpkg/lock
was sufficient to continue, though I separated out the two apt commands (old habits..) ;)

Poor Pi has taken ages to run the updates and does appear to be stable, with minimal hardware attached.

I was thinking of trying mobile version of browsers to see if any improvements could be noticed (though I do like Midori) - Fennec looks like a possibility.
EJ

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