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mpthompson
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Re: Debian Hard Float (armhf) for RPi

Fri May 11, 2012 8:19 pm

Mostly a quiet day building the queued packages.  The current binary package count is:

Debian armhf 34355
Raspbian armhf 28014

About 6300 packages to reach parity with Debian armhf.  The build queue is looking pretty healthy right now with more than four hundred source packages lined up to be built which should be good for at least another thousand binary packages.

A couple of volunteers stepped forward to help with the bug base.  Hopefully we can reach consensus on the requirements soon and start working on implementation.

With baseball/softball playoffs beginning for my kids and Mother's Day, this weekend is looking to be pretty busy with family activities so I'm not sure how much progress will be made on adding content to the wiki or other ancillary projects related to Raspbian.  However, the builds will go on.

grantek
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Re: Debian Hard Float (armhf) for RPi

Sat May 12, 2012 4:08 am

I've been playing around with qemu and picked vnc4 as a random source package to try, and I've discovered it's not in debian armel or armhf so can be excluded from the raspbian build process:

http://packages.debian.org/tes.....vnc4server
http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin.....bug=472188

Building the package (until hitting the error above) was excruciatingly slow in QEMU, I was convinced it was because of the maximum 256MB of memory supported by the versatile machine type, but I'm running the build again with a tmpfs-backed disk as swap and it's not touching it, so it looks like it's just down to slow CPU/disk emulation and can't be avoided on an x86 system.

Even still, I'd like to set up a QEMU system that runs as fast as possible with at least 1GB of RAM (with raspbian in a chroot), but I've never used an ARM board before, so if anyone knows of a good Debian or Ubuntu image that can be plugged into QEMU emulating a Beagleboard or something, I'd like to hear about it

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mpthompson
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Re: Debian Hard Float (armhf) for RPi

Sat May 12, 2012 5:11 am

grantek said:

Building the package (until hitting the error above) was excruciatingly slow in QEMU, I was convinced it was because of the maximum 256MB of memory supported by the versatile machine type, but I'm running the build again with a tmpfs-backed disk as swap and it's not touching it, so it looks like it's just down to slow CPU/disk emulation and can't be avoided on an x86 system.
I basically gave up on QEMU as well for building.  I built a kernel and it took 12+ hours which is terribly slow.  QEMU seems OK for some types of testing, but it's not useful as a build workhorse.  I don't have a suggestion on what alternate emulated systems might be more suitable for QEMU.

iamacarpetlicker
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Re: Debian Hard Float (armhf) for RPi

Sat May 12, 2012 7:15 pm

First of all, I'm so pleased and proud this has become a reality - I remember only a month or so ago reading the posts on the Debian mailing lists about this being a dream.

Fantastic! This will make my project for the Pi as a server for our MediaBank Portal a reality.

Since we're going to be doing a lot of builds here once we start to get our deliveries, is there any chance the repos can be rsync-able so we can set up a local mirror?

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liz
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Re: Debian Hard Float (armhf) for RPi

Sat May 12, 2012 8:44 pm

I promised Hexxeh I'd post something incisive and fascinating here so he could see whether his notifications still work. I'm not doing so well on that, but here is a joke:

% got a light?
No match.
Director of Communications, Raspberry Pi

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mpthompson
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Re: Debian Hard Float (armhf) for RPi

Sat May 12, 2012 9:31 pm

iamacarpetlicker wrote:Fantastic! This will make my project for the Pi as a server for our MediaBank Portal a reality.

Since we're going to be doing a lot of builds here once we start to get our deliveries, is there any chance the repos can be rsync-able so we can set up a local mirror?
Thank you for your interest in Raspbian. Give me a few days. I do intend to set up the repository with anonymous read-only rsync, but I just haven't gotten around to it yet. I'll post back here when it is ready along with instructions on the wiki.

ljdawson
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Re: Debian Hard Float (armhf) for RPi

Sun May 13, 2012 1:48 am

@mpthompson @john.mills

I was having a play with Raspbian tonight, the following commands will setup LXDE and get you into the gui:

apt-get update
apt-get upgrade
apt-get install lxde-core
apt-get lxterminal
apt-get install xinit
apt-get xorg
startx

ljdawson
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Re: Debian Hard Float (armhf) for RPi

Sun May 13, 2012 2:11 am

One other thing, it would be great to get a browser up and running.

I think the package chromium-browser has been built but its waiting on chromium. Do you have an ETA for this package?

Thanks

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mpthompson
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Re: Debian Hard Float (armhf) for RPi

Sun May 13, 2012 6:04 am

ljdawson wrote:I think the package chromium-browser has been built but its waiting on chromium. Do you have an ETA for this package?
Unfortunately, I don't have an ETA. Packages basically become available for building as their dependencies are cleared. The browsers, being complex applications, have many dependencies. To reach package parity with Debian armhf, we basically have a little under 6000 packages left to build and we are now building at a rate between 250 to 500 packages a day. Therefore, I expect almost all the packages to be built within the next two weeks (ignoring the few hundred problem packages). Of course, this isn't factoring any unknown problems that might be encountered along the way. If my assumptions hold true, in the worst case the browsers won't be built for another week to two weeks, but it could be much sooner.

Also, plugwash and I can often speed things along by manually building certain packages to satisfy build dependencies of other packages. In the next day or so I'll see what I can do manually to get chromium or midori build dependencies satisfied. Sometimes just manually building one package frees up dozens or hundreds of other packages.

Hexxeh
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Re: Debian Hard Float (armhf) for RPi

Sun May 13, 2012 11:28 am

I dunno if the Debian build process applies any patches to Chromium, but if it doesn't, you're likely to find that it fails to build. There are a few assumptions that ARM == ARMv7 in recent versions (probably why the latest version on Debian repos for ARM is version 4, latest is 21).

I've submitted a patch for this issue: http://chromiumcodereview.appspot.com/10387100/

Also, Native Client is a no-go on anything below ARMv7 I believe, so you'll want to disable that by putting disable_nacl=1 in GYP_DEFINES.

ljdawson: Thanks for the package list, I'll put together an image containing those by default.

plugwash
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Re: Debian Hard Float (armhf) for RPi

Sun May 13, 2012 1:05 pm

hexxh, if you have not already done so could you submit those chromium patches to debian?

merlz42
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Re: Debian Hard Float (armhf) for RPi

Sun May 13, 2012 1:27 pm

I just installed this for testing. Ran the firmware update and is going fine. If it helps developers I can provide ssh to it (it'll be running 24/7).

I am mainly interested in stuff like openCV but if anyone has other suggestions to try to compile I'll happily look at it. I'm not really familiar with the apt system or building .deb packages though.

Hexxeh
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Re: Debian Hard Float (armhf) for RPi

Sun May 13, 2012 1:32 pm

Uh, I'm not entirely sure how. If you read the comments on the link I posted, apparently there's a better way to patch it so it might be best to wait for that.

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mpthompson
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Re: Debian Hard Float (armhf) for RPi

Sun May 13, 2012 8:15 pm

There have been requests for web browsers on Raspbian to fill out the GUI experience. I've looked into it and at a minimum we won't have one for at least another 4 days or so. The reason is that Midori and Chromium both rely on webkit which according to the Debian armhf build logs is an 81 hour build on similar type of hardware we are using to build Raspbian. Gulp!!! 81 hours!!! That's a 3+ day build...

Even worse, it looks like they both rely on different versions of webkit. Firefox/IceWeasel even a separate huge build. No matter what, these are going to be very painful builds to get through and we'll have to exercise patience. I don't have knowledge of how to cross-compile such complex Debian packages so there isn't much of option to use more powerful Intel hardware for these builds (which isn't the Debian way anyway).

To get through this as quickly as possible, I've stopped autobuilding on one server and devoted it to building webkit for the next 3+ days. I had to use a handful of Debian armhf packages to satisfy build dependencies so there is a risk that at the end of these builds we can't use the packages as they may have ARMv7 contamination and won't run on the Raspberry Pi. However, this risk is generally pretty low so it's probably worth taking to these critical pieces of a GUI experience built.

Since the build system I do manual builds on will be devoted to webkit for the next few days this will give me time to turn my attention to fixing up the Raspbian.org website and some infrastructure issues I've been meaning to get to for the last week or so. Plugwash has been busy with his own set of manual builds on another build server so we'll have three to four other autobuilders pounding on the scheduled set of packages. Binary packages will be coming out slower for a little while, but they progress will continue to be made.

PS. If you want to go old school, you can use the lynx browser on Raspbian which is a text-mode browser. Doing so, at least you'll really appreciate Midori or Chromium when they do show up on Raspbian. :)

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mpthompson
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Re: Debian Hard Float (armhf) for RPi

Sun May 13, 2012 8:22 pm

BTW, the binary package counts are now:

Debian armhf 34355
Raspbian armhf 28895

And as plugwash notes, Raspbian cannot yet build itself so that critical threshold has not yet been reached. However, we are creeping closer to that threshold every day.

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hexelpdkk
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Re: Debian Hard Float (armhf) for RPi

Sun May 13, 2012 8:36 pm

mpthompson wrote: PS. If you want to go old school, you can use the lynx browser on Raspbian which is a text-mode browser. Doing so, at least you'll really appreciate Midori or Chromium when they do show up on Raspbian. :)
dillo is available as well - I could browse to the raspbian site with it, but it is really horrible!

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mpthompson
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Re: Debian Hard Float (armhf) for RPi

Sun May 13, 2012 10:25 pm

Looks like Debian Wheezy will start freezing code sometime in June in preparation to go stable sometime early next year.

http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-an ... 00004.html

As Raspbian is built over Debian Stable this will probably mean that updates to the repository will become less frequent as time goes by. I guess we'll need to consider whether to move to the "new" testing branch of Debian or stay with Wheezy for a period of time. Nothing that has to be acted upon soon, but something to be considered down the line.

plugwash
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Re: Debian Hard Float (armhf) for RPi

Sun May 13, 2012 11:05 pm

At some point we will want to put raspbian wheezy onto low level maintinence and focus on wheezy+1 but I do think we should focus on getting raspbian wheezy finished first.

merlz42
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Re: Debian Hard Float (armhf) for RPi

Mon May 14, 2012 12:19 am

Is there an easy way/a point to setting up autobuilding within a raspbian install? build-essential, etc is all working and I'd be keen to contribute some build time...

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mpthompson
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Re: Debian Hard Float (armhf) for RPi

Mon May 14, 2012 4:18 am

plugwash wrote:...but I do think we should focus on getting raspbian wheezy finished first.
Absolutely... Quite frankly I'll look forward to seeing wheezy go stable as I cry a little on the inside when a new version of source code comes in and we have to recompile a bunch code that we just finished compiling a little while back.

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mpthompson
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Re: Debian Hard Float (armhf) for RPi

Mon May 14, 2012 4:30 am

merlz42 wrote:Is there an easy way/a point to setting up autobuilding within a raspbian install? build-essential, etc is all working and I'd be keen to contribute some build time...
merlz42, I appreciate your willingness to help, but the build system just isn't set up to reliably work with autobuilders outside the firewall. It would be a lot of work to fix things up to do so. That being said, please feel free to email me at mpthompson(at)gmail.com with details of what you have in mind and we can discuss it outside this forum thread.

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mpthompson
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Re: Debian Hard Float (armhf) for RPi

Mon May 14, 2012 6:10 pm

Rsync mirroring of the Raspbian repository should now be possible. Information for doing so can be found on the Raspbian Wiki here:

http://www.raspbian.org/Mirrors

Once the initial build of Raspbian is complete I believe it will begin to get a LOT of use by Rasberry Pi users looking for a well optimized OS that has an enormous selection of pre-built packages available for download. Ideally, I would like to have a number of mirrors in place to help handle the load when this happens and more Raspberry Pi hardware becomes available. If someone or an organization you know could host a mirror of the Raspbian repository, please point them to the wiki page linked above.

Currently, the repository is about 65GB in size and will likely grow to at least 80GB in size when all the binary packages have been built. Anyone hosting a Raspbian repository mirror should plan on devoting about 100GB to the mirror to handle SD images and future growth of the repository.

Hexxeh
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Re: Debian Hard Float (armhf) for RPi

Mon May 14, 2012 10:15 pm

Threw together a new SD card image for Raspbian at mpthompson's request over the weekend, it's available here: distribution.hexxeh.net/raspbian/raspbian-r3.zip

Changes are as follows:

SSH server included, launches on boot by default
LXDE and Xorg server now included, type "startx" to launch this after logging in
Changed the sources.list to point to the new .org address
rpi-update is included (as is Git, since rpi-update requires this)
Updated to the latest firmware and kernel as of 13th May

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fjen
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Re: Debian Hard Float (armhf) for RPi

Mon May 14, 2012 10:29 pm

Hexxeh wrote:Threw together a new SD card image for Raspbian at mpthompson's request over the weekend, it's available here: distribution.hexxeh.net/raspbian/raspbian-r3.zip
Made a torrent of the image: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/4593149/raspbian-r3.zip.torrent

Is there an official way to get a new kernel or should we compile ourself?

Hexxeh
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Re: Debian Hard Float (armhf) for RPi

Mon May 14, 2012 10:34 pm

You could compile from source, but dom maintains a GitHub repo with the latest firmware/kernel images. I mirror these in another repo in a slightly different format, along with a tool that updates your image for you automatically.

If you're using Raspbian-R3, just type "rpi-update" and you'll get the latest firmware/kernel installed for you.

rsyncing as detailed above now, should be complete in a few minutes. This is mirroring to a box in Atlanta, GA. I can mirror across to more boxes in Europe if you'd like, too.

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