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RPi4 support to boot from USB

Posted: Tue Jun 25, 2019 11:29 pm
by odoy
will rpi4 get support to boot from usb?
this method doesn't work with rpi4.

https://www.raspberrypi.org/documentati ... des/msd.md

my current workaround is just to move the fs to the ssd. I want to move boot too and run completely from ssd again without sd

Re: RPi4 support to boot from USB

Posted: Tue Jun 25, 2019 11:48 pm
by HawaiianPi
Yes, as has been started multiple times in similar questions posted in the last day or so, USB boot is being worked on and will be enabled in a future firmware update (no time frame available at this time).

Unlike previous models, the Pi4 has on-board upgradable firmware.

Re: RPi4 support to boot from USB

Posted: Tue Jun 25, 2019 11:53 pm
by Gavinmc42
You need to wait until this is working.
It will require an updated bootloader for the boot EEPROM.

I do hope this is open sourced as it will help with the baremetal guys getting the Pi4 running.

Also help with USB-C booting like the Zero does?
That USBboot mode was open source, that might be more useful if it was done first?

Re: RPi4 support to boot from USB

Posted: Wed Jun 26, 2019 8:16 am
by jamesh
Gavinmc42 wrote:
Tue Jun 25, 2019 11:53 pm
You need to wait until this is working.
It will require an updated bootloader for the boot EEPROM.

I do hope this is open sourced as it will help with the baremetal guys getting the Pi4 running.

Also help with USB-C booting like the Zero does?
That USBboot mode was open source, that might be more useful if it was done first?
It won't be OSS. However, it will be really easy to write baremetal code, create an ELF file and have that run. The bootloader will initialise all the memory controllers for you, which is one less task to do.

Re: RPi4 support to boot from USB

Posted: Thu Jun 27, 2019 3:03 am
by Gavinmc42
It won't be OSS. However, it will be really easy to write baremetal code, create an ELF file and have that run. The bootloader will initialise all the memory controllers for you, which is one less task to do.
Can we get a Lilo/grub type bootloader into the EEPROM?
Would be nice to have boot OS options.
But I suppose we could write our own, if we knew how :oops:

Re: RPi4 support to boot from USB

Posted: Wed Aug 07, 2019 11:53 am
by pepeEL
Any news when boot from USB will be available ?

Re: RPi4 support to boot from USB

Posted: Wed Aug 07, 2019 11:58 am
by HawaiianPi
pepeEL wrote:
Wed Aug 07, 2019 11:53 am
Any news when boot from USB will be available ?
After Network booting has been implemented. 8-)

Re: RPi4 support to boot from USB

Posted: Wed Aug 07, 2019 12:16 pm
by pepeEL
yes i know :P but not share any info date?

Re: RPi4 support to boot from USB

Posted: Wed Aug 07, 2019 12:28 pm
by RaTTuS
repeat after me :-
"Are we nearly there yet?"

Re: RPi4 support to boot from USB

Posted: Wed Aug 07, 2019 1:41 pm
by jamesh
pepeEL wrote:
Wed Aug 07, 2019 12:16 pm
yes i know :P but not share any info date?
No dates available. I hear that network boot is progressing nicely.

Re: RPi4 support to boot from USB

Posted: Wed Aug 07, 2019 2:32 pm
by Andyroo
RaTTuS wrote:
Wed Aug 07, 2019 12:28 pm
repeat after me :-
"Are we nearly there yet?"
Can I drive?

Re: RPi4 support to boot from USB

Posted: Thu Aug 08, 2019 1:41 am
by Gavinmc42
I hear that network boot is progressing nicely.[/quote
Does that mean it's in testing phase?

Going to need another Pi4 to try it, plus 1GB switch, big HDD......

Software, I know exactly when mine will work, the minute it works.
Cannot predict the hour or day or week or month :oops:
Never could figure out how those people who can tell their boss exactly when things will work do it.

Re: RPi4 support to boot from USB

Posted: Thu Aug 08, 2019 10:47 am
by jamesh
Gavinmc42 wrote:
Thu Aug 08, 2019 1:41 am
I hear that network boot is progressing nicely.
Does that mean it's in testing phase?
No, it means it is progressing nicely. It's a lot of work implementing a minimal ethernet stack.

Re: RPi4 support to boot from USB

Posted: Thu Aug 08, 2019 10:48 am
by pepeEL
I dont understand why release RPI4 without in standard option boot from USB. Ehhhh

Re: RPi4 support to boot from USB

Posted: Thu Aug 08, 2019 10:52 am
by RaTTuS
pepeEL wrote:
Thu Aug 08, 2019 10:48 am
I dont understand why release RPI4 without in standard option boot from USB. Ehhhh
time - software ,
hardware ready but software needs work -

so release with working software and update later
release fast , release often

Re: RPi4 support to boot from USB

Posted: Thu Aug 08, 2019 10:56 am
by Gavinmc42
I used this a very long time ago.
http://dunkels.com/adam/software.html
Wow that guy does not age.

Ouch, Ethernet stacks, ok will not ask again ;)

Re: RPi4 support to boot from USB

Posted: Thu Aug 08, 2019 10:58 am
by DougieLawson
RaTTuS wrote:
Thu Aug 08, 2019 10:52 am
release fast , release often
Ah ha, the Agile way.

"Release fast, release often" == "Release with bugs and test in the field" so we all get to share the joy of things that don't work.

Re: RPi4 support to boot from USB

Posted: Thu Aug 08, 2019 11:04 am
by RaTTuS

Re: RPi4 support to boot from USB

Posted: Thu Aug 08, 2019 11:05 am
by jamesh
pepeEL wrote:
Thu Aug 08, 2019 10:48 am
I dont understand why release RPI4 without in standard option boot from USB. Ehhhh
So, we could have waited until the USB boot was ready. Let's say another 6 months. So for 6 months, a machine that works for most people would be unavailable to buy. Why would we do that? We are selling a huge number of devices right now, many 100's of thousands already sold, so clearly USB boot is entirely unnecessary for a lot of users.

I don't understand why people don't understand this.

Re: RPi4 support to boot from USB

Posted: Thu Aug 08, 2019 11:07 am
by pepeEL
But many user buy to test it and know thaht now boot from USB is unavailable. But buy to test on SD

Re: RPi4 support to boot from USB

Posted: Thu Aug 08, 2019 11:10 am
by B.Goode
pepeEL wrote:
Thu Aug 08, 2019 10:48 am
I dont understand why release RPI4 without in standard option boot from USB. Ehhhh


So the many (probably thousands, maybe tens of thousands) users who have been able to get useful work out of their RPi4 boards since 24th June would still be waiting?

Perhaps the licensees who put their company money up front for manufacturing might not be happy to be sitting on valuable stock that they cannot sell to recoup their expenses?

Re: RPi4 support to boot from USB

Posted: Thu Aug 08, 2019 11:18 am
by Gavinmc42
I don't understand why people don't understand this.
Expectations are higher now?

Probably most of these new users don't code at all and have no idea how long it takes.
After all only 10% of PI go to the education market they at least probably use them to code.
The other 90% go where? 50% to embedded apps by expert installers, 30% to YTers and media buffs.
Last 10% to grumpy old fan boys?

Re: RPi4 support to boot from USB

Posted: Thu Aug 08, 2019 11:20 am
by DougieLawson
jamesh wrote:
Thu Aug 08, 2019 11:05 am
pepeEL wrote:
Thu Aug 08, 2019 10:48 am
I dont understand why release RPI4 without in standard option boot from USB. Ehhhh
So, we could have waited until the USB boot was ready. Let's say another 6 months. So for 6 months, a machine that works for most people would be unavailable to buy. Why would we do that? We are selling a huge number of devices right now, many 100's of thousands already sold, so clearly USB boot is entirely unnecessary for a lot of users.

I don't understand why people don't understand this.
In the old days of mainframes with waterfall development, a new software feature (not delivered on a version or release change) would be called a "new function fix". IBM have been adding new functions forever (inside IBM they used a kilo lines of code (kloc) metric to decide whether something need to wait for a release).

With hardware changes those were often known, affectionately, as "the golden screwdriver" (because there was usually a price to pay), when some piece of dormant hardware was suddenly enabled with what was officially known as an "EC" or "engineering change". In some cases the "EC" needed a "new function" software fix to drive it. Quite often an "EC" would mean the engineer pulled a card out of the frame and inserted a new one.

I have no problems with waiting for PXE & USB boot in just the same way that I have no problems waiting for the supply chain to catch up with my desire for a RPi4B with 4GB. [Which the household finance director will frown at.]

Re: RPi4 support to boot from USB

Posted: Thu Aug 08, 2019 11:44 am
by Gavinmc42
I have no problems with waiting for PXE & USB boot in just the same way that I have no problems waiting for the supply chain to catch up with my desire for a RPi4B with 4GB. [Which the household finance director will frown at.]
Hmm, sounds very familiar. I think I should put my spare change in a jar labeled Pi4B4 :lol:
Wonder if I have enough yet? Will start counting tomorrow :D

Re: RPi4 support to boot from USB

Posted: Thu Aug 08, 2019 1:50 pm
by jamesh
pepeEL wrote:
Thu Aug 08, 2019 11:07 am
But many user buy to test it and know thaht now boot from USB is unavailable. But buy to test on SD
Do they? The lack of USB boot has been well publicised and there are workarounds (use an SD card with just bootcode.bin and config on it).