fbe
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Re: Large partition sizes, Raspbian and Windows

Mon Mar 11, 2019 7:38 pm

AirFiero wrote:
Mon Mar 11, 2019 7:12 pm
Another question, do we know the maximum size a boot partition can be under Raspbian?
The Limit is about 2TB. The boot partition should be on a drive with MBR partition table (GPT makes trouble) and must have a FAT32 filesystem (exFAT doesn't work).

AirFiero
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Re: Large partition sizes, Raspbian and Windows

Mon Mar 11, 2019 7:42 pm

rpdom wrote:
Mon Mar 11, 2019 7:21 pm
AirFiero wrote:
Mon Mar 11, 2019 7:12 pm
Another question, do we know the maximum size a boot partition can be under Raspbian?
The maximum size for a FAT32 partition is 2TB, so I guess that is all you can have.
So to confirm, I can make the boot partition of a Raspbian SD card 2 *tera*bytes? :shock: If so, yes, that would suffice. :mrgreen:

AirFiero
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Re: Large partition sizes, Raspbian and Windows

Mon Mar 11, 2019 7:44 pm

fbe wrote:
Mon Mar 11, 2019 7:38 pm
AirFiero wrote:
Mon Mar 11, 2019 7:12 pm
Another question, do we know the maximum size a boot partition can be under Raspbian?
The Limit is about 2TB. The boot partition should be on a drive with MBR partition table (GPT makes trouble) and must have a FAT32 filesystem (exFAT doesn't work).
Is an MBR partition what is created on a Pi/Linux, or Windows?

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Imperf3kt
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Location: Australia

Re: Large partition sizes, Raspbian and Windows

Mon Mar 11, 2019 8:36 pm

Your further explanation raises a few questions, are you using the Pi Zero or the Pi3b+?
Where, exactly, are you storing the music? You keep asking for a small usb stick, to transfer files onto an expensive 512GB microSD card, but in my opinion that's pointless as you just unplug the usb stick when you're done so size is irrelevant. In fact, pricewise, you're probably best off buying a small portable HDD or SSD for copying the music between PC and Pi.

Have you considered heat dissipation?
A Pi3b+ in such a cramped space will likely get quite hot.
I know my Pi3b did when encased at 33mm depth. It reached over 70°C just sitting idle at the desktop, and it had ventilation on all four sides.
55:55:44:44:4C
52:4C:52:42:41

LTolledo
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Re: Large partition sizes, Raspbian and Windows

Mon Mar 11, 2019 8:43 pm

I've just pop my RPiZWH portable volumio player's 8GB microSD card to this RPi3B to check the partition structure

Code: Select all

/boot            FAT32 
/volumio         EXT4
/volumio_data    EXT4
 
it would seem that the volumio partition is the equivalent of the "root" partition

the volumio_data EXT4 may be shrunk and another NTFS or FAT32 partition can be added (where you can store your music files)
"Don't come to me with 'issues' for I don't know how to deal with those
Come to me with 'problems' and I'll help you find solutions"

Some people be like:
"Help me! Am drowning! But dont you dare touch me nor come near me!"

AirFiero
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Re: Large partition sizes, Raspbian and Windows

Mon Mar 11, 2019 9:47 pm

Imperf3kt wrote:
Mon Mar 11, 2019 8:36 pm
Your further explanation raises a few questions, are you using the Pi Zero or the Pi3b+?
Where, exactly, are you storing the music? You keep asking for a small usb stick, to transfer files onto an expensive 512GB microSD card, but in my opinion that's pointless as you just unplug the usb stick when you're done so size is irrelevant. In fact, pricewise, you're probably best off buying a small portable HDD or SSD for copying the music between PC and Pi.

Have you considered heat dissipation?
A Pi3b+ in such a cramped space will likely get quite hot.
I know my Pi3b did when encased at 33mm depth. It reached over 70°C just sitting idle at the desktop, and it had ventilation on all four sides.
I have thought about heat dissipation, but this is being done with a Pi Zero W. Has anyone had heat issues with a Pi Zero?

The question of storage is a question, indeed. In order to keep this player as small as possible, that lead to my questions about using the bootable SD for storage, since they are available in sufficiently large sizes to contain the operating system and music library. Using a USB stick might be a problem because I have yet to find a stick that has a micro USB interface instead of the standard, full-sized USB plug, and I'm using a Pi Zero which ONLY has a micro USB. Adding an adapter takes up space, maybe more than is available in my planned player.

AirFiero
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Re: Large partition sizes, Raspbian and Windows

Mon Mar 11, 2019 9:49 pm

LTolledo wrote:
Mon Mar 11, 2019 8:43 pm
I've just pop my RPiZWH portable volumio player's 8GB microSD card to this RPi3B to check the partition structure

Code: Select all

/boot            FAT32 
/volumio         EXT4
/volumio_data    EXT4
 
it would seem that the volumio partition is the equivalent of the "root" partition

the volumio_data EXT4 may be shrunk and another NTFS or FAT32 partition can be added (where you can store your music files)
I'm curious what volumio is using the /volumio and /volumio_data directories *for*, if the /boot directory is the root and boot partition? And I wonder what data it is storing in data?

And...would the Pi be able to see and use an NTFS partition?

LTolledo
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Re: Large partition sizes, Raspbian and Windows

Mon Mar 11, 2019 10:12 pm

...rather than wondering... better explore it yourself.... ;)
"Don't come to me with 'issues' for I don't know how to deal with those
Come to me with 'problems' and I'll help you find solutions"

Some people be like:
"Help me! Am drowning! But dont you dare touch me nor come near me!"

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Imperf3kt
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Location: Australia

Re: Large partition sizes, Raspbian and Windows

Mon Mar 11, 2019 10:57 pm

OK now I see.

You could buy one of these. Up to 128GB
https://www.sandisk.com/home/mobile-dev ... ve-usb-m-3

I have a different brand that's a bit smaller but mine is only 32GB

Or you could buy something like this.

https://m.aliexpress.com/item/32976342933.html
Plus
https://www.adafruit.com/product/2910
55:55:44:44:4C
52:4C:52:42:41

AirFiero
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Re: Large partition sizes, Raspbian and Windows

Mon Mar 11, 2019 11:02 pm

LTolledo wrote:
Mon Mar 11, 2019 10:12 pm
...rather than wondering... better explore it yourself.... ;)
I had a 64gb card set up with Raspbian already. I had copied some music onto it previously. Using gparted, I discovered that the music ended up in the ext4 partition, which Windows cannot see.
20190311_152223_resized.jpg
20190311_152223_resized.jpg (235.68 KiB) Viewed 1499 times

Sorry for the lousy quality of the pictures, they were cell phone pix of the RPi 7inch screen.

AirFiero
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Re: Large partition sizes, Raspbian and Windows

Mon Mar 11, 2019 11:03 pm

I also looked around the /volumio directories. There were various subfolders, but here is what they contained at the root level...
20190311_152223_resized.jpg
20190311_152223_resized.jpg (235.68 KiB) Viewed 1498 times

AirFiero
Posts: 67
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Re: Large partition sizes, Raspbian and Windows

Mon Mar 11, 2019 11:04 pm

continued
20190311_152340_resized.jpg
20190311_152340_resized.jpg (212.08 KiB) Viewed 1498 times

AirFiero
Posts: 67
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Re: Large partition sizes, Raspbian and Windows

Mon Mar 11, 2019 11:11 pm

Imperf3kt wrote:
Mon Mar 11, 2019 10:57 pm
OK now I see.

You could buy one of these. Up to 128GB
https://www.sandisk.com/home/mobile-dev ... ve-usb-m-3

I have a different brand that's a bit smaller but mine is only 32GB

Or you could buy something like this.

https://m.aliexpress.com/item/32976342933.html
Plus
https://www.adafruit.com/product/2910
Yes, those are all great finds and suggestions, thank you.

I think the easiest (although not the fastest) way to do this is what someone suggested, just copying the files from a USB stick to a bootable SD (in the ext partition) using another Pi with desktop. Then put the card into the Pi Zero and go. I can easily do this, so I'll probably just use this method. I am an old fart, not a teeny-bopper who must add the new Katy Perry song every month, so I probably won't need to add a lot of music frequently. In fact, I am setting up all my favorite music on my PC hard drive, in FLAC format and with tagging in place. Then I'll just be adding stuff periodically, so the slow transfer rates of the onboard USB 2.0 won't really be a big issue.

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HawaiianPi
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Re: Large partition sizes, Raspbian and Windows

Tue Mar 12, 2019 9:09 am

AirFiero wrote:
Mon Mar 11, 2019 4:54 pm
This sounds like a good set of solutions, thank you.

I haven’t tried yet, but I need to see if Volumio has a method for file transfer under its GUI, or if I will need to turn off the GUI when I need to use the command line to have SSH access.
I do believe Volumio creates a network share, so all of this may be moot, but...

You don't need to use the Pi for transferring files. It just needs to be connected to the same network as your Windows PC, then you can copy files from Windows to the PiPOD. Options I suggested above don't require Windows to read/write the Pi SD card directly. Copying over your network eliminates the file-system barrier. You could copy directly to the music folder on the destination (don't need huge /boot partition).

For example, here is WinSCP running on my Windows 10 laptop connected to my Linux torrent box, another SBC running ARMbian Lite (no GUI). The right pane is the torrent box, and on the left is the download folder on my Win10 PC. I can just drag files from one to the other.
WinSCP.gif
WinSCP.gif (33.89 KiB) Viewed 1475 times

WinSCP uses the Secure Copy Protocol (SCP), which is a way to securely transfer files between a local host and a remote host or between two remote hosts. It is based on the Secure Shell protocol (SSH). Recent versions of Win10 have SCP included, so you could do this from Windows PowerShell without WinSCP, but WinSCP saves you a lot of typing (and we all know how much Windows users hate to type ;)).

AirFiero wrote:
Mon Mar 11, 2019 7:42 pm
So to confirm, I can make the boot partition of a Raspbian SD card 2 *tera*bytes? :shock: If so, yes, that would suffice. :mrgreen:
Theoretically, yes, but in reality, no. However, that's only because there are no real 2TB micro SD cards available (yet). 1TB cards are supposed to ship next month (April) from SanDisk, Micron and one other company (Lexar, I think). They're going to be :shock: :cry: expensive, though (and as I said above, you don't really need a giant /boot partition).
My mind is like a browser. 27 tabs are open, 9 aren't responding,
lots of pop-ups...and where is that annoying music coming from?

AirFiero
Posts: 67
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Re: Large partition sizes, Raspbian and Windows

Tue Mar 12, 2019 5:59 pm

HawaiianPi, PiPod, that’s also a good name! :) :idea:

I downloaded WinSCP, and will play around with it when I get a chance.

I’m wondering if just making the boot partition take up most of the card is possible and workable, allowing easy file transfer in Windows (you know, for us lazy Windows non-typers ;) )? This is something else I will experiment with. I have a 64gb card I can use to test for now. Since this project is a dedicated music player, and doesn’t need to do anything else, can you think of a downside to this approach?

I will likely order a 400gb card for this project. I can’t imagine running out of storage for music with that much space. If so, bigger cards will become available.

I still need to figure out how the 4.3 inch display sends touch screen data to the pi. I’m assuming it’s on the USB connection, but the Pi Zero USB data port supposedly is only for data, and the other port is for power. If the display powers up via USB, and the data comes from the display via USB, will I need to split the output from the display so data goes to one USB ports, and the power goes to my power source?

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HawaiianPi
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Re: Large partition sizes, Raspbian and Windows

Tue Mar 12, 2019 8:01 pm

AirFiero wrote:
Tue Mar 12, 2019 5:59 pm
HawaiianPi, PiPod, that’s also a good name! :) :idea:
Thought you might like that. :D

I’m wondering if just making the boot partition take up most of the card is possible and workable, allowing easy file transfer in Windows (you know, for us lazy Windows non-typers ;) )? This is something else I will experiment with. I have a 64gb card I can use to test for now. Since this project is a dedicated music player, and doesn’t need to do anything else, can you think of a downside to this approach?
Mucking about with partitions seems unnecessarily complicated to me, since there are easy options available.

I will likely order a 400gb card for this project. I can’t imagine running out of storage for music with that much space. If so, bigger cards will become available.
There are 512GB cards now. The Samsung EVO Select is the cheapest I've seen, but I haven't really monitored prices all that much. I do know that the 512GB cards are much more expensive than the SanDisk Ultra A1 400GB.

I still need to figure out how the 4.3 inch display sends touch screen data to the pi. I’m assuming it’s on the USB connection, but the Pi Zero USB data port supposedly is only for data, and the other port is for power. If the display powers up via USB, and the data comes from the display via USB, will I need to split the output from the display so data goes to one USB ports, and the power goes to my power source?
Depends in the screen. Most screens designed for Pi computers use GPIO for touch input. Most standard touch screen monitors use USB.

The power traces are directly connected between the Pi0 Data and Power micro USB ports. When using Pi0 USB Gadget Mode the Data port is used to both power the Pi0 and to transfer data (the power port is not used with USB Gadget Mode). And hey, there's another option! If for some reason you have trouble with Volumio's network share, USB Gadget Mode could be another way to connect your Pi0 to transfer files.
My mind is like a browser. 27 tabs are open, 9 aren't responding,
lots of pop-ups...and where is that annoying music coming from?

AirFiero
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Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2019 10:56 pm

Re: Large partition sizes, Raspbian and Windows

Wed Mar 13, 2019 7:33 pm

HawaiianPi wrote:
Tue Mar 12, 2019 8:01 pm
Mucking about with partitions seems unnecessarily complicated to me, since there are easy options available.
I make backup images of all of my operating system SD cards once they are running well. I can just re-flash the card if things go south.
There are 512GB cards now. The Samsung EVO Select is the cheapest I've seen, but I haven't really monitored prices all that much. I do know that the 512GB cards are much more expensive than the SanDisk Ultra A1 400GB.
That's the ticket. The 400GB should be plenty large enough capacity, and I've seen them selling for about $72. The 512s are all well over $100.
Depends in the screen. Most screens designed for Pi computers use GPIO for touch input. Most standard touch screen monitors use USB.
The monitor I just ordered uses USB data. Problem should be solved.
The power traces are directly connected between the Pi0 Data and Power micro USB ports. When using Pi0 USB Gadget Mode the Data port is used to both power the Pi0 and to transfer data (the power port is not used with USB Gadget Mode). And hey, there's another option! If for some reason you have trouble with Volumio's network share, USB Gadget Mode could be another way to connect your Pi0 to transfer files.
Gordon from IQaudio indicated that the data USB on the Pi Zero does in fact carry power. This should solve the power issue. Although, I would prefer to split the power output from the UPS board to feed the Pi Zero and the monitor separately, so the Pi Zero isn't dealing with any power issues. This will need to be tested.

AirFiero
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Re: Large partition sizes, Raspbian and Windows

Thu Apr 04, 2019 7:25 pm

Project update:

I received the Waveshare 4.3 inch display, and a Lexar 512gb Micro SD card. I'm doing tests on smaller cards with Raspbian and Volumio. Raspbian seems to work nicely on the RPi Zero with Waveshare display. The touchscreen is a little bit off (your finger and where the cursor is ends up about 1/8in apart), but the display came right up. Music plays.

As for Volumio, the GUI isn't showing very well on this monitor, but I haven't done the configuration yet, I just did a "fire it up" test. No problem. At least I know the hardware is compatible.

The Lexar 512 card was from B&H Photo, price was $99. Price is same today on their website. Storage hardware solved, now to experiment with file location and partitions.

Card link:
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/ ... _633x.html

In another thread, I learned more details about the /boot partition and potential issues with using it. I'll try the methods listed in this thread for music storage and copying files.

Oh, and the answer to the touch screen data connection...it uses a USB port that connects to the RPi Zero USB data port. Video (and sound, if needed) runs to the display (which has it's own headphone jack).

Here is a picture of the mockup/test of the PiPod...
PiPod test_resized.jpg
PiPod test_resized.jpg (187.45 KiB) Viewed 1192 times

fruitoftheloom
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Re: Large partition sizes, Raspbian and Windows

Fri Apr 05, 2019 7:24 am

AirFiero wrote:
Thu Apr 04, 2019 7:25 pm
Project update:

I received the Waveshare 4.3 inch display, and a Lexar 512gb Micro SD card. I'm doing tests on smaller cards with Raspbian and Volumio. Raspbian seems to work nicely on the RPi Zero with Waveshare display. The touchscreen is a little bit off (your finger and where the cursor is ends up about 1/8in apart), but the display came right up. Music plays.

As for Volumio, the GUI isn't showing very well on this monitor, but I haven't done the configuration yet, I just did a "fire it up" test. No problem. At least I know the hardware is compatible.

The Lexar 512 card was from B&H Photo, price was $99. Price is same today on their website. Storage hardware solved, now to experiment with file location and partitions.

Card link:
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/ ... _633x.html

In another thread, I learned more details about the /boot partition and potential issues with using it. I'll try the methods listed in this thread for music storage and copying files.

Oh, and the answer to the touch screen data connection...it uses a USB port that connects to the RPi Zero USB data port. Video (and sound, if needed) runs to the display (which has it's own headphone jack).

Here is a picture of the mockup/test of the PiPod...


Two whole posts and you now have lots of information to digest, so it is now time for your good self to make a decision, one size does not fit all :D

The other post

viewtopic.php?f=66&t=237458&sid=72caaec ... 0dfe401a2e
Last edited by fruitoftheloom on Fri Apr 05, 2019 8:58 am, edited 1 time in total.
Retired disgracefully.....

jahboater
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Re: Large partition sizes, Raspbian and Windows

Fri Apr 05, 2019 7:48 am

AirFiero wrote:
Sun Mar 10, 2019 11:17 pm
I also believe that Raspbian makes a series of 2 or 4 gb partitions. Wouldn't I end up with 100 2gb partitions on a 256gb card?
No it does not. You will still get two partitions.
The filesystem Raspbian uses for its main partition has no practical size limit.

fruitoftheloom
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Re: Large partition sizes, Raspbian and Windows

Fri Apr 05, 2019 8:09 am

jahboater wrote:
Fri Apr 05, 2019 7:48 am
AirFiero wrote:
Sun Mar 10, 2019 11:17 pm
I also believe that Raspbian makes a series of 2 or 4 gb partitions. Wouldn't I end up with 100 2gb partitions on a 256gb card?
No it does not. You will still get two partitions.
The filesystem Raspbian uses for its main partition has no practical size limit.

The OP should stop reading nonsensical information :?

Linux gparted can create as many partitions as you need in differing formatting:

https://gparted.org
Retired disgracefully.....

jahboater
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Re: Large partition sizes, Raspbian and Windows

Fri Apr 05, 2019 8:53 am

The OP should actually install Raspbian (with etcher) on the 512GB card and see.

(Lets hope the 512GB card is not a fake)

AirFiero
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Re: Large partition sizes, Raspbian and Windows

Wed Apr 10, 2019 11:18 pm

jahboater wrote:
Fri Apr 05, 2019 8:53 am
The OP should actually install Raspbian (with etcher) on the 512GB card and see.

(Lets hope the 512GB card is not a fake)
I've been doing tests on smaller cards (16 or 64gb) with some sample music to see what works before I use the 512gb card.

I read reviews on Amazon of the various large SD cards and noticed that a lot of people were complaining about the sizes being wrong (or fraudulent). I'm hoping that B&H will honor any warrantee issues.

I put the 512 card in my Windows PC, and it reports 460gb free.

Here is a check of the card by Ismyhdok:
mini-20190410_161450.jpg
mini-20190410_161450.jpg (166.58 KiB) Viewed 966 times

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Gavinmc42
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Re: Large partition sizes, Raspbian and Windows

Thu Apr 11, 2019 12:41 am

PiCoreplayer uses PiCore the Pi version of TinyCore Linux.
https://www.picoreplayer.org/

I have also use PiCore for years, the default partition sizes need modifiying to add an other stuff.
For that I use a Linux box and Gparted after the image has been burned.
I increase the boot partition a little and the TinyCore 2nd partition gets increased so I can add apps.
The rest of the SD card is formatted as a third partition for data.

If PiCore is only going on a particular Pi then the alternative kernels can be deleted and the 1st partition shrunk.
Use Linux and Gparted or the command line methods "dd" etc.
I tried Disk manager in Windows 10, blue screen a few times :o
I'm dancing on Rainbows.
Raspberries are not Apples or Oranges

AirFiero
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Re: Large partition sizes, Raspbian and Windows

Thu Apr 11, 2019 1:19 am

Gavinmc42 wrote:
Thu Apr 11, 2019 12:41 am
PiCoreplayer uses PiCore the Pi version of TinyCore Linux.
https://www.picoreplayer.org/

I have also use PiCore for years, the default partition sizes need modifiying to add an other stuff.
For that I use a Linux box and Gparted after the image has been burned.
I increase the boot partition a little and the TinyCore 2nd partition gets increased so I can add apps.
The rest of the SD card is formatted as a third partition for data.

If PiCore is only going on a particular Pi then the alternative kernels can be deleted and the 1st partition shrunk.
Use Linux and Gparted or the command line methods "dd" etc.
I tried Disk manager in Windows 10, blue screen a few times :o
PiCore looks promising. I'll dive into it next tine I fire up the Pi. Thanks.

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