rainer.brito
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Re: Why is the Raspbian desktop experience so slow?

Sat Feb 16, 2019 2:49 pm

Hi!

To be honest, I think Pi and its official OS, our beloved raspbian, do a great job as a daily use computer. I do not hack much -- except some small linux tweaks here or there -- or compose great projects -- a surveillance system, or home automation, a local radio stream, etc. I do not even have an actual project for my Pi except make it a standart, daily use computer. I write my thesis, my articles, I do my job as a humanities researcher and teacher; Pi has become my main computer at home and at university. I even produce some visual identities of our research projects, public lessons and so on.

I'm actually trying to use my Pi as a home studio to record my 3rd album and it is ok for me. Off course I am a low profile musician and a one instrument person, but a simple USB audio interface, a microphone and my Pi are doing the job quite nicely. Audacity is fine, many things just works great from my point of view.

I can agree with that complaint: "browsers in raspbian sucks". That is true! But it is mainly a problem with browsers development (and with this broken and bloated internet) and not with Pi -- as many people here already did write about.
The Pi has proven that with few resources it is possible to do A LOT. I really like this philosophy. I feel comfortable with it; it makes my "low-fi" soul very happy -- and my "slow science" life also seems a bit more "in home" against this fast and bleeding-edge world of non-sense competition for power and pride accumulation -- specially in computer's life.

Maybe you're looking from a bad point-of-view. If you just look at the Pi as an opportunity to "reduce" your needs and sort better what really has to be done in your "personal computing life", maybe (maybe) it will make you feel better.

Off course a best browser for the pi (a Pi browser, in our dream-world) would be the best option. But actually it doesn't exist and I am almost sure the Foundantion and the raspbian team are not planning (or are they? :o ) to develop a browser for Pi. It would be a really nice solution, but actually our best bet as users still Chromium, such a hated and loved blue elephant.

ejolson
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Re: Why is the Raspbian desktop experience so slow?

Sat Feb 16, 2019 8:21 pm

rainer.brito wrote:
Sat Feb 16, 2019 2:49 pm
But actually it doesn't exist and I am almost sure the Foundantion and the raspbian team are not planning (or are they? :o ) to develop a browser for Pi. It would be a really nice solution, but actually our best bet as users still Chromium, such a hated and loved blue elephant.
Making this forum, code club, the official website and related ones work well with all models of Pi currently being sold would be a good start towards improving the desktop experience, at least in Pi-specific educational settings. In particular, if these websites would render well with Lynx, Dillo and NetSurf, that would be enough to allow even the original Pi B to remain a self-sufficient environment for learning about computers.

cspan
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Re: Why is the Raspbian desktop experience so slow?

Sat Feb 23, 2019 7:39 pm

If one of the most noticeable slow points of the Pi [as desktop] is the browser, would it be appreciably faster if it connected to the mobile web page version of whatever www page is being addressed?

I've done a little bit of searching on this point and came across a post that indicated that web developers direct users to a mobile web page if they detect the user has a small screen. That's not always the case with the Pi, and especially not likely for anyone using it as a desktop. Moreover, I did a bit of home testing with my regular desktop - when I've tried to connect to mobile versions of sites, I've often had to go to the full page first, then click a link at bottom for "mobile version" - if that option is even presented on a regular web home page.

So - assuming the Pi could better handle versions of websites optimized for mobile devices - I'm not sure how it could get to those pages first unless you were also using a really small screen. And if you get to the regular page first, it seems you'd get bogged down in all the javascript and advertising cruft before you could even find the link for "mobile version". Any thoughts on this? Seems like if the device is roughly as powerful* as a few year old cellphone, perhaps it ought not be burdened with trying to load sites that require so much more memory/speed ... sites which would serve up a simpler version for said cellphone.

* much more versatile of course.

Gadgetguy
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Re: Why is the Raspbian desktop experience so slow?

Sat Feb 23, 2019 9:04 pm

cspan wrote:
Sat Feb 23, 2019 7:39 pm
If one of the most noticeable slow points of the Pi [as desktop] is the browser, would it be appreciably faster if it connected to the mobile web page version of whatever www page is being addressed?

I've done a little bit of searching on this point and came across a post that indicated that web developers direct users to a mobile web page if they detect the user has a small screen. That's not always the case with the Pi, and especially not likely for anyone using it as a desktop. Moreover, I did a bit of home testing with my regular desktop - when I've tried to connect to mobile versions of sites, I've often had to go to the full page first, then click a link at bottom for "mobile version" - if that option is even presented on a regular web home page.

So - assuming the Pi could better handle versions of websites optimized for mobile devices - I'm not sure how it could get to those pages first unless you were also using a really small screen. And if you get to the regular page first, it seems you'd get bogged down in all the javascript and advertising cruft before you could even find the link for "mobile version". Any thoughts on this? Seems like if the device is roughly as powerful* as a few year old cellphone, perhaps it ought not be burdened with trying to load sites that require so much more memory/speed ... sites which would serve up a simpler version for said cellphone.

* much more versatile of course.




Strangely enough I have been intending to post my browsing experiences with the the Raspberr Pi for some time after this thread first appeared and your post has precipitated this response. As readers are most likely aware Chromium permits the installation of extensions from its' web store which enhance its' features and capabilities. One such extension that I have been using for a long time Is " User-Agent Switcher for Google Chrome "

https://chrome.google.com/webstore/deta ... nfo-dialog


This extension permits you to "spoof " the website you are loading into your browser into concluding you are using a different browser or OS.

One website I use to follow Canadian Politics Is the Canadian BroadcastingCorporations twitter website for its' political show " Power and Politics". Unfortunately of late they are embedding autoplay videos into its' twitter feed

https://twitter.com/PnPCBC?ref_src=twsr ... r%5Eauthor

.Since these videos appear to be using a non-accelerated codec they causes the Pi with its meagre one Gb of ram considerable difficulty when using Chromium's default user agent. However if one reloads the website using the above noted user agent switcher extension and choses Safari browser on the ipad a different version of the website is served to the user which loads with much less resource usage and which also uses an at least partially accelerated video codec. Incidentally if one goes under the hood of Chromium by navigating to Chrome flags ie chrome://flags/ (careful they might bite!!)
and then searches for autoplay policy
and replaces the default setting with "document user activation is required " this also helps. Also one can view the embedded videos in a smoothly accelerated fashion by copying the video url and pasting it into G Kreidls Omxplayergui or smplayer (guii )using hardware accelerated (mmal) mpv as its engine

cspan
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Re: Why is the Raspbian desktop experience so slow?

Sat Feb 23, 2019 9:18 pm

Interesting - yes, autoplay videos are another annoying feature of full-bodied websites that would drag browser performance on the Pi. Thanks for mentioning it.

Although I'm not too keen on browser extensions since they're such a popular attack vector (on Windows, if not other OS as well), it's good to know that there may be ways to beat a website into submission and stop them from turning on the firehose of system load. Or at least, mitigating it.

Yeahthisisausername
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Re: Why is the Raspbian desktop experience so slow?

Thu Mar 07, 2019 11:40 am

It's a Raspberry Pi. Sure, it does a lot of things great, and other things, like browsing the modern web in Chromium, less great. Keep in mind that we're using a $35 computer.

With that said, I'm using my 3B+ as a desktop computer. There are a couple of things you can do to elevate the user experience, and make it very usable as a daily driver (i.e surf the web, watch movies etc.). Some ask why, and I say why not?

STEP ONE:

Increase vRAM. The default 64 MB is low, and it will cripple the system if you try to stream a hi-res video online, or if you have a high bitrate video that you want to watch. It's fine if you only plan to use the Pi in a robot, NAS, camera etc. but not as a desktop computer. I have increased mine to 192 MB, and it makes a huge difference versus 64. 192 vs 256 isn't that noticeable though.

STEP TWO:

Increase SWAP. The Pi's default 100 MB SWAP file is ridiculously low, and unusable. With only 1 GB of RAM, web browsing will be tough, and the whole system will lock up and freeze when both RAM and SWAP are filled - which will be the case the moment you open a heavy javascript ridden site. Increase SWAP to at least 1024 MB, or even better, 2048 MB (max). The system will offload tasks to the SWAP file, and it will never completely fill up RAM again, eliminating lockups and complete freezes. There will still be lag, since the next bottleneck is the MicroSD card.

STEP THREE:

Boot from an SSD. MicroSD cards are not made to operate operating systems. They're made to do single operations like saving photos and videos on your smartphone, camera, etc. An operating system constantly reads and writes a lot of data to and from disk, and a MicroSD is the worst thing for the job. We need something that's made for an OS.

1. A MicroSD is like a single lane dirt road. Only one vehicle can drive on it at a time, and other vehicles will have to wait for their turn. No vehicle can overtake another vehcile. You will have to WAIT.

2. An SSD is like a 10 lane superhighway where traffic flows in both directions, and vehicles can overtake other vehicles. There is zero waiting. The bottlenecks now are USB 2.0 (even though it's "quick enough" at this point) and the CPU and GPU, and we can't do much with those.

---

Where I'm going with this is that you should invest in a $20-30 SSD and boot Raspbian from it. I've done it myself, and it's ridiculously faster and smoother than when running from a $99 high-end Sony MicroSD card. Even though the SSD will go through USB 2.0, it will still be much faster. About ten times faster than MicroSD, and the random read/writes will be much much faster and reliable, eliminating all the lag. Heck, I had issues downloading big files with the MicroSD since my internet was faster than the write speeds of the MicroSD! This resulted in many many pauses where the download had to pause so the MicroSD could catch up! When it was done writing, the download would start again. This made downloading stuff a nightmare.

YouTube is still a b****, but YouTube is bad on everything that's not named Chrome or Chromium on even much more powerful hardware (hint: Edge and Firefox). It will always be a bad experience. My YouTube experience, even with increased vRAM, swap and an SSD, is spotty at best. I can, in some cases, play 1080p 60p as long as I don't go fullscreen. The moment I go fullscreen, it'll start to lag, and then pretty much just give up. With regular 1080p, the experience is OK, but still not great. Depending on the bitrate of the video that the uploader uploaded, it will either play 1080p nicely in fullscreen without any issues, or it will start lagging. It's all pretty random. Meanwhile, VLC will play absolutely everything without a single stutter. Ever. HW acceleration is wonderful, isn't it? YouTube is the issue, not the hardware.

STEP FOUR (OPTIONAL)

Deactivate Javascript in Chromium and enable it again on sites that doesn't properly work without it. This forum, for example works perfectly without javascript. YouTube? Not so much. Most news sites work fine without javascript, and it'll save quite a lot of CPU time and struggle. Scrolling will also be smoother. This is fine if you pretty much browse the same 20 sites, but not if you like to surf around the web. Again, completely optional, but it makes surfing the web just a little quicker and better.

Here's a short video of my system. I have Chromium opened, with music playing in the background, and I can open 20+ tabs if I want without any issues, thanks to an increased SWAP and SSD (which again allows for quicker swapping).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uU0Sl9Uax-U

EDIT: Here's a newer video of performance: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P-EQ77KijWI

Notice the lack of lag and pauses?

What I've done to my 3B+:

- OS: Minimal install of Raspbian Lite with Openbox
- vRAM: 192 MB
- SWAP: 2048 MB
- Hardware: Heatsink and a 120 GB $28 Kingston SSD.

I can record a (bad) video of stuff so you can check the performance in <insert task/program> if that should be desirable. Bottom line, it's incredibly usable, and I use my 3B+ for everything except gaming, and it does so pretty nicely.
Last edited by Yeahthisisausername on Thu Mar 07, 2019 12:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

jamesh
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Re: Why is the Raspbian desktop experience so slow?

Thu Mar 07, 2019 12:23 pm

There is a reason we have swap set low, and that is that is wears out SD cards quite quickly if it's large. SD cards are not particularly good devices to be using as swap, but it's all we have on the default system. It's a tradeoff, if you happy with reduced SD card life then go for it.
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DougieLawson
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Re: Why is the Raspbian desktop experience so slow?

Thu Mar 07, 2019 12:26 pm

jamesh wrote:
Thu Mar 07, 2019 12:23 pm
There is a reason we have swap set low, and that is that is wears out SD cards quite quickly if it's large. SD cards are not particularly good devices to be using as swap, but it's all we have on the default system. It's a tradeoff, if you happy with reduced SD card life then go for it.
Swapping to a spinning thing or a USB based flashy thing isn't a problem. If you boot from a USB device you really should think about setting swap to 1 or 2 GB.
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Yeahthisisausername
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Re: Why is the Raspbian desktop experience so slow?

Thu Mar 07, 2019 12:27 pm

Yup! Which is why I got an SSD, since they're made for swapping and whatnot, while MicroSDs are not. Still, 200 MB would be better than 100, but I understand WHY you've set it to 100. People who want to increase it does so themselves though, so no harm has been done, lol.

cspan
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Re: Why is the Raspbian desktop experience so slow?

Thu Mar 07, 2019 12:32 pm

Yeahthisisausername, your post is a keeper! Thanks.

I have thus far resisted going to an SSD since my Rpi is merely a backup computer (meaning, it's a lifeboat when my main computer dies). There's also the aesthetic factor - that an SSD is external, bulkier, requires yet another cable connection (or two - do they use a power supply of their own?).

However, for daily use I can see how it makes sense from a speed/efficiency perspective ... and, as a desktop, who cares if it's not quite as neat and elegant? It's not going to be picked up and moved around much.

Arguably I should set up an SSD in advance of needing to get in my computer lifeboat, though it's hard to want to spend too much effort on it in case there's a RPi4 by the time that's necessary.

In setting up your SSD, did you just do SD Card Copier to it and then ran it from there (after setting the Pi up to do USB boot)? If you spent as little as you said on the SSD, I presume you have some other medium for file storage? I'd be inclined to use my external HDD for that. If you also use an external HDD, do you leave it plugged into the Pi all the time as well? I can see those would take 3 of the 4 USB ports: 1 for keyboard/mouse combo (K410r), 1 for SSD, 1 for HDD. As a full time desktop, the 4th would likely go to the printer.

Just thinking through here.

Yeahthisisausername
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Re: Why is the Raspbian desktop experience so slow?

Thu Mar 07, 2019 12:48 pm

Just look at this bad boy!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P-EQ77KijWI

I completely agree on the bulk of an SSD, and that's why I've hidden it inside my desk! It's not even remotely practical in case I want to take it with me (it would take a minute or two to get it out), but it looks at least very clean. Here's a picture of my Pi setup. Yes, this is only used for the Pi, and it's completely overkill.

https://i.imgur.com/CSr9AHA.jpg
In setting up your SSD, did you just do SD Card Copier to it and then ran it from there (after setting the Pi up to do USB boot)?
There is no setup if you have the 3B+. It supports booting via USB out of the box! Just copy the Raspbian files (or image) to the SSD, just like with a MicroSD, and you're good to go! Install takes literally 5 seconds vs several minutes with a MicroSD. The only thing to keep in mind while booting from an SSD is that it will boot slower than with a MicroSD. You'll notice that it'll take a few seconds before it even reacts, and that's because it will first look for a MicroSD, and if it doesn't find one, it will look for bootable devices in the USB. It might get annoying if you power your Pi down quite often, but it's not a problem for me since I reboot mine like once a month or something.

I re-installed Raspbian on the SSD, and then I've kept the MicroSD as a backup, with everything set up, in case I need it.
If you spent as little as you said on the SSD, I presume you have some other medium for file storage? I'd be inclined to use my external HDD for that. If you also use an external HDD, do you leave it plugged into the Pi all the time as well?
I do have an HDD, but I rarely use it, so the few times that I use it, I don't let it be plugged in, since the spinning disk makes some noise. The 120 GB that the SSD provides is enough for me right now, since I tend to delete movies etc. from the Pi once I've watched them. Plus I have a laptop and MS Office (with 1 TB cloud storage).

cspan
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Re: Why is the Raspbian desktop experience so slow?

Thu Mar 07, 2019 1:28 pm

Ah yes, I had forgotten that. I have both the 3B and 3B+ ... and have set up the 3B accordingly, so that's what I was remembering.

I'm not a movie guy, as far as file storage goes, but I do have a fair # of jpgs from my camera (and some video clips, which take up a disproportionate amt of space). I do quite a bit of email and browsing, and beyond that, it's largely office files (spreadsheets, text documents, and PDFs). Scanning of documents (to PDFs) is a regular thing I do that might be challenging on the Pi or even RPD.

Aside these, I do use search functions quite a bit on my desktop, and have found it to be pretty slow on the Pi. I search old emails, and my desktop files quite often to find something in the past I need to reference today. On my Win7 desktop that would be Thunderbird's own search utility, and outside of email, either Win7's search (which periodically blanks and requires re-indexing, for some reason), and a utility called Agent Ransack (which lets me easily specify the search, such as for extensions, text strings, dates, folders, etc).

If those kind of searches could not be done on the Pi at a remotely comparable speed, it might be difficult to use it as a daily machine. I'd be more inclined to buy a mainstream Windows PC to get higher performance hardware, and install Raspberry Pi Desktop on it. Hope to not ever go back to Windows for my next desktop, but have not ruled out Apple/Mac just yet. Would love for my next desktop to just be the Pi, but it depends on how major the performance compromises are and how effective any work-arounds for functional limitations might be. From my limited perspective right now, web browsing, search (files, email) , and scan are my main areas of concern for the Pi desktop experience.

Reiterating/restating one point I hinted at above: I think it's a little unfair to blame the Pi entirely for its shortcomings in browsing experience. The web has become a dumpster fire of bloated design, autoplaying videos, and popup ads that resist blocking, etc. Even on powerful hardware it can be bad. I wish there was a parallel low-resource-load web, but it's so advertising-supported that I'm not sure we can or will ever go back to simpler times. People will put up with all sorts of garbage in order to get stuff nominally "free", and that explains a lot of the browsing experience.

Yeahthisisausername
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Re: Why is the Raspbian desktop experience so slow?

Thu Mar 07, 2019 1:47 pm

If those kind of searches could not be done on the Pi at a remotely comparable speed, it might be difficult to use it as a daily machine.
Indeed. I'm a minimalist, so I'm running a minimal install of Raspbian Lite with Openbox without an email client or anything. I don't even have a clock. If I do need to access my email, I'll just open Chromium and open Gmail or Outlook.com, which are both tolerable after the swap bump and SSD, but it's still not perfect. I do however have a Surface Laptop that's my main machine, and I do pretty much anything on it, that I can't or won't bother doing on the Pi. I've written a couple of documents on the Pi in Nano (and Leafpad), but I do prefer to either use Word or Google Docs if I can, but Google Docs is pretty unusable on the Pi. Not because it's weak, but because Google is going full mongo will javascript.

Wait, I literally just remembered that Microsoft Office is available via a web browser. Guess I'll have to see how well it works on the Pi! I'm guessing it won't be running well.
I think it's a little unfair to blame the Pi entirely for its shortcomings in browsing experience. The web has become a dumpster fire of bloated design, autoplaying videos, and popup ads that resist blocking, etc. Even on powerful hardware it can be bad.
Just look at YouTube. Disable Javascript and it will barely load the site. Try to load Google Maps. Nope! The web is broken, and we need a 2.0 ASAP where we've learned from our mistakes. Maybe.

What you might want to take a look at is the Udoo Bolt V8

https://www.udoo.org/get-started-bolt/

Give me a V8 with 32 GB of RAM and a Vega 8 GPU. It's not $35, but I'm willing to spend some cash on one if I can get my hands on one.

Yeahthisisausername
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Re: Why is the Raspbian desktop experience so slow?

Thu Mar 07, 2019 2:00 pm

Quick update: Office Web works "fine" on the Pi, but I wouldn't use it too often. I'll keep it as a backup solution for that one time I have no other way of editing a document that's stored in OneDrive. There's a slight delay - or latency, while typing in Word. Probably not more than 100 ms or so, but it's very noticeable when typing fast. Excel works also fine, but I would not try to work on a 50 x 5000 sheet on the Pi. I'd prefer to be beaten with a beefy stick chainsaw instead.

Now we know! Yay, javascript.

EDIT: *cough* that last part came out wrong

cspan
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Re: Why is the Raspbian desktop experience so slow?

Thu Mar 07, 2019 2:13 pm

For a variety of reasons, I prefer to work locally if possible. So I use LibreOffice rather than Google Docs or the online MS Office (on my Win7 computer too, not just the Pi). And, as implied before, I use an email client (and POP) rather than leave stuff in the cloud. So that's a different use case and perhaps a different set of challenges to the hardware of the Pi and associated peripherals.

ejolson
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Re: Why is the Raspbian desktop experience so slow?

Sat Mar 09, 2019 5:03 am

jamesh wrote:
Thu Mar 07, 2019 12:23 pm
There is a reason we have swap set low, and that is that is wears out SD cards quite quickly if it's large. SD cards are not particularly good devices to be using as swap, but it's all we have on the default system. It's a tradeoff, if you happy with reduced SD card life then go for it.
Does the size of the swap partition affect how frequently swapping occurs?

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Gavinmc42
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Re: Why is the Raspbian desktop experience so slow?

Sat Mar 09, 2019 6:43 am

The result is that the Pi as a browsing experience is very under par (
Try the browsers in Gento64, they are a bit better, Debian based Raspbian is a bit behind Sakaki's Gentoo64 version.
They still have some way to go in WebGL.
Most Browsers are now optimized for 64bit cpu's, in fact they say they won't support 32bit now/soon.

Companies like Samsung, Google, Firefox can throw much more resources at problems than RPF can do.

The latest 4.19 kernel and Mesa 19 plus latest video/camera stuff is already in Gentoo64 and coming soon to Raspbian64?.
A fast Desktop like the one in PiCore make a difference but it not compatible to the usual browsers.

Raspbian lite can be run with a choice of desktops installed.
Is the Desktop slow or is it the massive apps trying to suck all the resources?
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rpdom
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Re: Why is the Raspbian desktop experience so slow?

Sat Mar 09, 2019 7:02 am

ejolson wrote:
Sat Mar 09, 2019 5:03 am
jamesh wrote:
Thu Mar 07, 2019 12:23 pm
There is a reason we have swap set low, and that is that is wears out SD cards quite quickly if it's large. SD cards are not particularly good devices to be using as swap, but it's all we have on the default system. It's a tradeoff, if you happy with reduced SD card life then go for it.
Does the size of the swap partition affect how frequently swapping occurs?
It's not the size of the swap file/partition. It's the "swapiness" value, ie. how soon the system will swap out idle processes. On a system with a fast swapfile that is unlikely to wear out the media the swapiness is set to a high value. Things get swapped out of memory if they haven't done anything for a while, even if there is plenty of memory available. On the Pi the swapiness is set to a very low value. Things only get swapped out if free memory is really low.
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jahboater
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Re: Why is the Raspbian desktop experience so slow?

Sat Mar 09, 2019 8:47 am

That's right.
You can easily see the swappiness with

Code: Select all

$ cat /proc/sys/vm/swappiness 
60

cspan
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Re: Why is the Raspbian desktop experience so slow?

Sat Mar 09, 2019 3:37 pm

Stuff like this makes me tempted to try out a text-based browser like links, elinks, lynx, etc. Just think of the popups, banner ads, and other junk that would be left behind. So tempting! But I suspect it won't work well with most banking or investment company sites.

It sounds appealing to substitute CLI programs for that would otherwise slow down the Pi to a crawl, as well as some ancillary benefits (greater multitasking, fewer attack vectors on the WWW, etc). I have tried a few CLI programs, such as abook and calcurse, but I found them too limited (fields), un-intuitive (e.g., I don't know how to use vim for the notes part), and for a novice, too easy to fall into unrecoverable errors.

Turning back the clock and going full CLI isn't necessarily what I want [though if I could do it without losing the full functionality of programs that use GUI, you bet I'd be tempted. Just knowing how fast I used to be able to go in a CLI environment ... and thinking how much more powerful the Pi is than the computers I used back then ... it's the stuff of dreams]. But it's really only the challenges of overall slowness or rapid SD card wear that make the CLI environment tempting.

So there are a few things we ask the Pi to do which are just disproportionately demanding on its resources, and the possibility of a vastly more efficient CLI alternative is awfully enticing, a potential solution to the slow desktop experience vis-a-vis browsing. I don't care much if it gives up style points. Functionality is a little harder to yield, however. If the only functionality yielded is that it can't serve me ads as well, GREAT! But I suspect it yields more than that.

Anyone else feel similarly?

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Re: Why is the Raspbian desktop experience so slow?

Sat Mar 09, 2019 6:47 pm

:lol: I've tried using lynx/links/link2/w3m, but it is frustrating, as most modern websites use so much 'stuff' that they just don't handle. :D

The lightest browser that I've personally found of any use is dillo, but you likely don't want to try using that on bank websites! :roll:

cspan
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Re: Why is the Raspbian desktop experience so slow?

Sat Mar 09, 2019 9:03 pm

k-pi wrote:
Sat Mar 09, 2019 6:47 pm
:lol: I've tried using lynx/links/link2/w3m, but it is frustrating, as most modern websites use so much 'stuff' that they just don't handle. :D

The lightest browser that I've personally found of any use is dillo, but you likely don't want to try using that on bank websites! :roll:
Out of curiosity ... because? Does it have something to do with TLS? I wonder if any text-based browsers have encryption, secure browsing etc.

I guess the simpler version of my rambling point was, among the "stuff" that text-based browsers don't handle, how much is it stuff you'd actually want? You'd want (er, need) security features, of course. But it would be nice if the "stuff" it didn't handle was limited to the unwanted garbage.

ejolson
Posts: 5594
Joined: Tue Mar 18, 2014 11:47 am

Re: Why is the Raspbian desktop experience so slow?

Sat Mar 09, 2019 10:11 pm

k-pi wrote:
Sat Mar 09, 2019 6:47 pm
:lol: I've tried using lynx/links/link2/w3m, but it is frustrating, as most modern websites use so much 'stuff' that they just don't handle. :D

The lightest browser that I've personally found of any use is dillo, but you likely don't want to try using that on bank websites! :roll:
It would be nice if the Raspberry Pi website and forum at least worked well with dillo, netsurf and even some of the text mode browsers. Not only would this make the site easier to navigate with the original B+ and Zero computers, but text and command line interfaces are important to those who are visually impaired as they work better with screen readers. The benefits of making the Pi websites compatible would also seem consistent with the mission to make computer literacy available for everyone.

Heater
Posts: 16309
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2012 3:02 pm

Re: Why is the Raspbian desktop experience so slow?

Sun Mar 10, 2019 5:08 am

Back in the day I had remote/home banking with the Bank of Scotland. They gave customers a little terminal device, it had a built in modem to dial up the bank and displayed on a TV using Teletext. It allowed all the usual banking operations, was dead simple and worked fine.

Ergo, I see no reason why a modern day banking over the web cannot be done using a text based browser.
Memory in C++ is a leaky abstraction .

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Gavinmc42
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Re: Why is the Raspbian desktop experience so slow?

Sun Mar 10, 2019 7:45 am

When I was using PiCore a lot I found the Fifth browser worked the best but that was about 2 years ago?
Will it work on Raspbian?
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