Phenman
Posts: 5
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Is raspbian a bad choice for 24/7 iot?

Sun Apr 15, 2018 7:44 pm

Hello. I am new in raspberry and I need to get choice between Android Things OS and Raspbian. I think android is better, because it is os specialy for iot "from box". In the same time there are many problems with good looking ui apps for raspbian and I do not believe in the reliability of things that are not created for any specific purposes. I do not have enough knowledge for the technical justification of my feelings. I hope you will help me to refute or confirm my thoughts. My experience and sixth sense says that I will get a lot of trouble with the raspbian for the embedded 24/7 device.

Please give me some info about similar expirience for my case.

Ps: sorry for bad English skills.

droleary
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Re: Why is raspbian bad choice for 24/7 iot?

Mon Apr 16, 2018 2:07 am

Phenman wrote:
Sun Apr 15, 2018 7:44 pm
My experience and sixth sense says that I will get a lot of trouble with the raspbian for the embedded 24/7 device.
Seems like you've got things figured out when it comes to your own needs. Have fun with Android. Bye.

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Gavinmc42
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Re: Why is raspbian bad choice for 24/7 iot?

Mon Apr 16, 2018 3:21 am

Android is not for IoT, Android things like Windows 10 IoT have been hacked down for IoT.
I use PiCore for 24/7 Linux , you start small and add stuff.
But these days I am going even smaller and use Ultibo.
Brillo has — publicly, at least — gone close to nowhere.
Is a name change going to help?

Don't get hung up on OS's, Raspbian is specifiably for education.
But your gut is right, Raspbian is not that good for IoT as it comes.
It can be made better if you really know what you are doing.
Hello. I am new in raspberry and I need to get choice between Android Things OS and Raspbian.
You don't NEED to choose either.

Use the Pi's hardware to explore options before making a choice.
And be prepared to jump ship when something better comes along, as it will.
After all you can test them all just by swapping the SD cards.
I'm dancing on Rainbows.
Raspberries are not Apples or Oranges

Phenman
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Re: Why is raspbian bad choice for 24/7 iot?

Mon Apr 16, 2018 6:13 am

Gavinmc42 wrote:
Mon Apr 16, 2018 3:21 am
But your gut is right, Raspbian is not that good for IoT as it comes.
Why? What are problems with Raspbian except the inability to make a good UI?

MaxVMH
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Re: Why is raspbian bad choice for 24/7 iot?

Mon Apr 16, 2018 7:50 am

Phenman wrote:
Mon Apr 16, 2018 6:13 am
Gavinmc42 wrote:
Mon Apr 16, 2018 3:21 am
But your gut is right, Raspbian is not that good for IoT as it comes.
Why? What are problems with Raspbian except the inability to make a good UI?
Not problems per se.

Raspbian is not the fastest or lightest OS for the RPi. It’s not the graphically best looking OS for the RPi. However, Raspbian is probably the most stable and best supported OS but those are not qualities you’re looking for, so there’s no use trying to convince you to use it if you already know you don’t like it. If you think there are other OS’s out there that will better suit you, use those.

A Raspberry Pi is for education, it’s cheap and meant for experimenting - you can try whatever OS you want without breaking your main computer ;)
Webserver stack: 2x Pi 3B | 1x Pi 3B+ ||| Pi Zero W for fooling around

Working on a soccer prediction web app:
https://github.com/MaxVMH/mijnscore
Attempt at writing up-to-date tutorials on making a Raspberry Pi webserver:
http://blog.mijnscore.be/

fruitoftheloom
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Re: Why is raspbian bad choice for 24/7 iot?

Mon Apr 16, 2018 8:17 am

Phenman wrote:
Sun Apr 15, 2018 7:44 pm
Hello. I am new in raspberry and I need to get choice between Android Things OS and Raspbian. I think android is better, because it is os specialy for iot "from box". In the same time there are many problems with good looking ui apps for raspbian and I do not believe in the reliability of things that are not created for any specific purposes. I do not have enough knowledge for the technical justification of my feelings. I hope you will help me to refute or confirm my thoughts. My experience and sixth sense says that I will get a lot of trouble with the raspbian for the embedded 24/7 device.

Please give me some info about similar expirience for my case.

Ps: sorry for bad English skills.

IoT can mean many different things to different people, there is no one size fits all.

One chooses the tools to accomplish the end goal.


Though you are correct that the Raspberry Pi is not an Embedded Device, it is a Small Board Computer:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single-board_computer
Retired disgracefully.....

SteveSpencer
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Location: Nottingham, UK

Re: Why is raspbian bad choice for 24/7 iot?

Mon Apr 16, 2018 8:55 am

MaxVMH wrote:
Mon Apr 16, 2018 7:50 am

A Raspberry Pi is for education, it’s cheap and meant for experimenting - you can try whatever OS you want without breaking your main computer ;)
Actually, at home, I have a Pi as my main computer. However, because they are so cheap, I have many others for experimenting with.
Despite the fact I have ~35 years of working in IT/development, I still find them very educational, and knowing some basic electronics, I have managed not to break any of them yet, although I have had to recreate SD and microSD cards from time to time :)
Steve S
No, I can't think of anything funny that won't offend someone if they want it to...

Phenman
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Re: Why is raspbian bad choice for 24/7 iot?

Wed Apr 18, 2018 7:41 am

MaxVMH wrote:
Mon Apr 16, 2018 7:50 am
If you think there are other OS’s out there that will better suit you, use those.
The problem is that I'm not sure of the correctness of my thoughts. However I'll must take reasoned decision for my customer.

I am .NET developer, raspberry is new for me and I see few problems with raspbian in theory:
1) There are'nt good tools or frameworks for GUI (Even using the more familiar for Raspberry python). At same time I can use Xamarin, android sdk capabilities and many external tools and components.
2) The complexity of studying and supporting a large number of different technologies. Even if I hire an employee for development, this removes only one problem. In addition, finding a developer with the experience of Android and/or Xamarin is much easier.

Problems with Android Things in theory:
1) Performance

The logical question that you should ask me is: "Hey man, what about Windows 10 IoT?" Unfortunately, the customer is afraid of windows, despite the fact that all the company's computers are equipped with windows. In addition he is afraid of Android smartphones (but he uses him) but he blindly believes that raspbian is ideal because it looks like legendary Linux :roll: :?
Last edited by Phenman on Wed Apr 18, 2018 7:53 am, edited 1 time in total.

fruitoftheloom
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Re: Why is raspbian bad choice for 24/7 iot?

Wed Apr 18, 2018 7:50 am

Phenman wrote:
Wed Apr 18, 2018 7:41 am
MaxVMH wrote:
Mon Apr 16, 2018 7:50 am
If you think there are other OS’s out there that will better suit you, use those.
The problem is that I'm not sure of the correctness of my thoughts. However I'll must take reasoned decision for my customer.

I am .NET developer, raspberry is new for me and I see few problems with raspbian in theory:
1) There are'nt good tools or frameworks for GUI (Even using the more familiar for Raspberry python). At same time I can use Xamarin, android sdk capabilities and many external tools and components.
2) The complexity of studying and supporting a large number of different technologies. Even if I hire an employee for development, this removes only one problem. In addition, finding a developer with the experience of Android and/or Xamarin is much easier.

Problems with Android Things in theory:
1) Performance

The logical question that you should ask me is: "Hey man, what about Windows 10 IoT?" Unfortunately, the customer is afraid of windows, despite the fact that all the company's computers are equipped with windows. :roll: :?

1) https://wiki.python.org/moin/TkInter


As I stated above no one size fits all :D
Retired disgracefully.....

Phenman
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Re: Why is raspbian bad choice for 24/7 iot?

Wed Apr 18, 2018 8:11 am

fruitoftheloom wrote:
Wed Apr 18, 2018 7:50 am
Phenman wrote:
Wed Apr 18, 2018 7:41 am
MaxVMH wrote:
Mon Apr 16, 2018 7:50 am
If you think there are other OS’s out there that will better suit you, use those.
The problem is that I'm not sure of the correctness of my thoughts. However I'll must take reasoned decision for my customer.

I am .NET developer, raspberry is new for me and I see few problems with raspbian in theory:
1) There are'nt good tools or frameworks for GUI (Even using the more familiar for Raspberry python). At same time I can use Xamarin, android sdk capabilities and many external tools and components.
2) The complexity of studying and supporting a large number of different technologies. Even if I hire an employee for development, this removes only one problem. In addition, finding a developer with the experience of Android and/or Xamarin is much easier.

Problems with Android Things in theory:
1) Performance

The logical question that you should ask me is: "Hey man, what about Windows 10 IoT?" Unfortunately, the customer is afraid of windows, despite the fact that all the company's computers are equipped with windows. :roll: :?

1) https://wiki.python.org/moin/TkInter


As I stated above no one size fits all :D
Hmm... Great thanks for link. It sounds promising. Shall you suggest a more modern free framework considering your experience?
Last edited by Phenman on Wed Apr 18, 2018 8:27 am, edited 1 time in total.

scotty101
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Re: Why is raspbian bad choice for 24/7 iot?

Wed Apr 18, 2018 8:25 am

Kivy is a more modern GUI framework.
Electronic and Computer Engineer
Pi Interests: Home Automation, IOT, Python and Tkinter

fruitoftheloom
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Location: Delightful Dorset

Re: Why is raspbian bad choice for 24/7 iot?

Wed Apr 18, 2018 8:35 am

scotty101 wrote:
Wed Apr 18, 2018 8:25 am
Kivy is a more modern GUI framework.

https://kivy.org/#home
Retired disgracefully.....

Phenman
Posts: 5
Joined: Sun Apr 15, 2018 7:27 pm

Re: Why is raspbian bad choice for 24/7 iot?

Wed Apr 18, 2018 9:00 am

Many thanks to all who participated! I think I found optimal solution. I will have to hire a third-party programmer, but in the end it will be the lesser of evils for everybody. :)

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Gavinmc42
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Re: Is raspbian a bad choice for 24/7 iot?

Thu Apr 19, 2018 12:38 am

but he blindly believes that raspbian is ideal because it looks like legendary Linux
The customer is always right :D

You might want to look at QT, it is a bit bloated for my use, which is learning to make GUI from scratch ;)
https://ultibo.org/forum/viewtopic.php? ... g&start=10
As for GUI's, I am still looking, pretty much gave up and decided to roll my own using OpenVG.
However customer always under estimate the time to do these things.

Raspbian has the Lite version which saves a lot of bloat and unnecessarily software.
You could try Netbeans with JavaFX, it would look familiar enough to you.

Quickie GUI's I have done with Python and Pygame, not good for 24/7 I found out, memory leaks I think?

Buildroot will get you a basic Linux OS with only what you need, only takes a weekend to learn ;)
You don't need to use the Raspbian Linux, it has far too much for single purpose IoT use.
But it could be used as a starting point, to get up and running quicker.
"Deliver early, deliver often". Customer always use what you deliver in ways you do not expect :lol:

Netbeans or even Processing are probably going to be quickest, QT has a learning curve.
Processing has the advantage of porting to Android which you might find interesting,
You will meed Pi3 's to run these Java based tools, they can be slower.

Linux is hackable these days too, so that may be an issue for IoT stuff.
That is one major reason I moved to Ultibo.
Ultibo is not yet secure as some core stuff was just released this week and only a few know how to use it yet ;)

Long term, tools like Ultibo, in theory can be made more secure than Linux which could have many more Zero days exploits.
But that is a lot of crystal ball gazing.
IoT is still early days and the Linux/Busybox OS's that have been used till now are hackable.

Eben said recently "Pi's will be in IoT".
They are great to learn how to do IoT and offer cheap computing to solve emerging issues.
I'm dancing on Rainbows.
Raspberries are not Apples or Oranges

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