Page 1 of 1
Raspbian April 2017 still says it is from Feb 2017
Posted: Mon May 29, 2017 2:44 pm
by Bosse_B
I just bought a new RPi3 to add to the ones I already use. This time I downloaded the latest available image from the Raspbian download page, where it is stated it is released 2017-04-10.
But uname -a gives this:
Code: Select all
uname -a
Linux rpi3-xxxx 4.4.50-v7+ #970 SMP Mon Feb 20 19:18:29 GMT 2017 armv7l GNU/Linux
Seems to be the Feb release....
Re: Raspbian April 2017 still says it is from Feb 2017
Posted: Mon May 29, 2017 2:49 pm
by fruitoftheloom
Bosse_B wrote:I just bought a new RPi3 to add to the ones I already use. This time I downloaded the latest available image from the Raspbian download page, where it is stated it is released 2017-04-10.
But uname -a gives this:
Code: Select all
uname -a
Linux rpi3-xxxx 4.4.50-v7+ #970 SMP Mon Feb 20 19:18:29 GMT 2017 armv7l GNU/Linux
Seems to be the Feb release....
Actually 2017-04-10
http://downloads.raspberrypi.org/raspbi ... _notes.txt you are looking at the Kernel / Firmware date not Raspbian release date, please amend your post title:
Just need to undertake:
Code: Select all
sudo apt-get update
sudo apt-get dist-upgrade
Code: Select all
uname -a
Linux raspberrypi 4.9.24-v7+ #993 SMP Wed Apr 26 18:01:23 BST 2017 armv7l GNU/Linux
Re: Raspbian April 2017 still says it is from Feb 2017
Posted: Mon May 29, 2017 3:17 pm
by Bosse_B
OK Thanks,
so there are other things that have been fixed but not the Linux kernel then?
I ran the following after posting:
Code: Select all
sudo apt-get update
sudo apt-get upgrade
This should have upgraded all packages to the latest state, I guess, but not the kernel....
I don't want a testing kernel so I will wait for that being released until I do a dist-upgrade.
Now I will go on with the installs I need to do on the new system...
Re: Raspbian April 2017 still says it is from Feb 2017
Posted: Mon May 29, 2017 3:21 pm
by DirkS
Bosse_B wrote:This should have upgraded all packages to the latest state, I guess, but not the kernel....
Update / upgrade should you get to the latest stable kernel (4.9.something)
Did you reboot?
Re: Raspbian April 2017 still says it is from Feb 2017
Posted: Mon May 29, 2017 3:33 pm
by runboy93
April release still have kernel 4.4.xx, but latest stable kernel update is already 4.9.xx, maybe default in next image.
Re: Raspbian April 2017 still says it is from Feb 2017
Posted: Mon May 29, 2017 3:34 pm
by Bosse_B
DirkS wrote:
Update / upgrade should you get to the latest stable kernel (4.9.something)
Did you reboot?
No, I did not know it would be needed. There was no message on screen to that effect either.
I have now rebooted:
Code: Select all
uname -a
Linux rpi3-xxxx 4.9.24-v7+ #993 SMP Wed Apr 26 18:01:23 BST 2017 armv7l GNU/Linux
So now the kernel is in fact upgraded too.
Since I thought that upgrade was a lesser type of upgrade (only for installed packages) than dist-upgrade I now have a follow-up question:
What is the difference between dist-upgrade and upgrade?
Re: Raspbian April 2017 still says it is from Feb 2017
Posted: Mon May 29, 2017 3:38 pm
by DirkS
Bosse_B wrote:Since I thought that upgrade was a lesser type of upgrade (only for installed packages) than dist-upgrade I now have a follow-up question:
What is the difference between dist-upgrade and upgrade?
From
http://manpages.ubuntu.com/manpages/zes ... get.8.html
upgrade
upgrade is used to install the newest versions of all packages
currently installed on the system from the sources enumerated in
/etc/apt/sources.list. Packages currently installed with new
versions available are retrieved and upgraded; under no
circumstances are currently installed packages removed, or packages
not already installed retrieved and installed. New versions of
currently installed packages that cannot be upgraded without
changing the install status of another package will be left at
their current version. An update must be performed first so that
apt-get knows that new versions of packages are available.
dist-upgrade
dist-upgrade in addition to performing the function of upgrade,
also intelligently handles changing dependencies with new versions
of packages; apt-get has a "smart" conflict resolution system, and
it will attempt to upgrade the most important packages at the
expense of less important ones if necessary. The dist-upgrade
command may therefore remove some packages. The
/etc/apt/sources.list file contains a list of locations from which
to retrieve desired package files. See also apt_preferences(5) for
a mechanism for overriding the general settings for individual
packages.
Re: Raspbian April 2017 still says it is from Feb 2017
Posted: Mon May 29, 2017 4:06 pm
by Martin Frezman
See, that's the funny thing about quoting man pages.
If somebody asks about something that is in the man pages, it is pretty clear that reading the man page didn't help the person, so having someone else quote the man page again (parroting it) isn't helpful.
I have to admit that I've read the man page description of the difference between upgrade and dist-upgrade several times and I still have no clue what it means. I just always do "dist-upgrade" - since that seems the most inclusive.
Adding to the confusion is the fact that some people (meaning people who should know - not fly-by newbies) have stated on this board that, in the context of Raspbian and the Pi, upgrade and dist-upgrade are synonymous. Others (also qualified speakers) have disputed this. I have no opinion on whether or not they are synonymous (and don't really care, since I always do dist-upgrade), but the mere fact that qualified speakers have asserted it does, as I have said, add to the confusion.
Re: Raspbian April 2017 still says it is from Feb 2017
Posted: Mon May 29, 2017 4:10 pm
by PeterO
Martin Frezman wrote:See, that's the funny thing about quoting man pages.
The only funny thing here is that as usual you are making assumptions about other people's level of knowledge.
Why are you assuming the OP has read the man age ?
PeterO
Re: Raspbian April 2017 still says it is from Feb 2017
Posted: Mon May 29, 2017 4:11 pm
by DirkS
Martin Frezman wrote:but the mere fact that qualified speakers have asserted it does, as I have said, add to the confusion.
And the fact that a self-confessed unqualified person (i.e. you, in case there's any doubt) feels the need to respond doesn't add anything useful to the topic.
Nothing new there, though.
BTW: what makes you think that OP has actually read the man pages?
Re: Raspbian April 2017 still says it is from Feb 2017
Posted: Mon May 29, 2017 4:12 pm
by rpdom
Martin Frezman wrote:See, that's the funny thing about quoting man pages.
If somebody asks about something that is in the man pages, it is pretty clear that reading the man page didn't help the person, so having someone else quote the man page again (parroting it) isn't helpful.
I have to admit that I've read the man page description of the difference between upgrade and dist-upgrade several times and I still have no clue what it means. I just always do "dist-upgrade" - since that seems the most inclusive.
Adding to the confusion is the fact that some people (meaning people who should know - not fly-by newbies) have stated on this board that, in the context of Raspbian and the Pi, upgrade and dist-upgrade are synonymous. Others (also qualified speakers) have disputed this. I have no opinion on whether or not they are synonymous (and don't really care, since I always do dist-upgrade), but the mere fact that qualified speakers have asserted it does, as I have said, add to the confusion.
You seem to be doing your best to confuse the issue
The difference is simple as shown on the man page. The fact is that most of the time it is better to run dist-upgrade. They are not synonymous. They do different things. "upgrade" will do a subset of "dist-upgrade".
Re: Raspbian April 2017 still says it is from Feb 2017
Posted: Mon May 29, 2017 4:55 pm
by Bosse_B
OK, I did not read the man page(s), but I have googled the upgrade command a few days ago when I wanted to bring the openvpn package (and only that) to the latest version.
I tried
and then I found myself in a situation where the supposedly quick upgrade of a single package took forever and downloaded a lot of stuff.
So I had to Google and found that the upgrade command does not look any further on the command line to find WHAT to upgrade, which I did not know beforehand....
What I do know from having done it half a year or so ago is that dist-upgrade will handle the
whole Raspbian itself. I had a Wheezy Pi which I wanted to bring over to Jessie and this was done using dist-upgrade.
In the case above I wanted the latest version of openvpn but NOT be switched over to Jessie!
Luckily it seems like the upgrade command did not do a release change...
It is clear to me in any case that there should be a difference between a command to
upgrade the various packages in a distribuition to the latest state for that release and a command to
move the operating system itself from one release to another.
Compare on Windows where one does not want to install a Windows Update thingie and find that in the process the OS moved from Win7 to Win8 or Win10! (Even though Microsoft tried just that regarding Win10! Fortunately I saw it so I could take countermeasures!)
Re: Raspbian April 2017 still says it is from Feb 2017
Posted: Mon May 29, 2017 5:02 pm
by fruitoftheloom
Bosse_B wrote:OK, I did not read the man page(s), but I have googled the upgrade command a few days ago when I wanted to bring the openvpn package (and only that) to the latest version.
I tried
and then I found myself in a situation where the supposedly quick upgrade of a single package took forever and downloaded a lot of stuff.
So I had to Google and found that the upgrade command does not look any further on the command line to find WHAT to upgrade, which I did not know beforehand....
What I do know from having done it half a year or so ago is that dist-upgrade will handle the
whole Raspbian itself. I had a Wheezy Pi which I wanted to bring over to Jessie and this was done using dist-upgrade.
In the case above I wanted the latest version of openvpn but NOT be switched over to Jessie!
Luckily it seems like the upgrade command did not do a release change...
It is clear to me in any case that there should be a difference between a command to
upgrade the various packages in a distribuition to the latest state for that release and a command to
move the operating system itself from one release to another.
Compare on Windows where one does not want to install a Windows Update thingie and find that in the process the OS moved from Win7 to Win8 or Win10! (Even though Microsoft tried just that regarding Win10! Fortunately I saw it so I could take countermeasures!)
Regards update from Wheezy to Jessie, one must manually change the Sources, it can not be undertaken by a straight forward update / upgrade / dist-upgrade. The same will be so from Jessie to Stretch...
Re: Raspbian April 2017 still says it is from Feb 2017
Posted: Mon May 29, 2017 5:32 pm
by Bosse_B
Thanks for the information!
Right now I am just starting up a new Pi so any upgrade is just to bring the April release image up to date before I start the installations I need on it. I just asked because I had read the threads about the upcoming major release and checked uname...
Case closed for me!
Re: Raspbian April 2017 still says it is from Feb 2017
Posted: Mon May 29, 2017 10:10 pm
by rpdom
upgrade does not take a package name as a parameter. It just upgrades everything.
To install a newer version of just one package (openvpn for example), just use the install option and it will upgrade just that package and dependencies if there are any available.
Re: Raspbian April 2017 still says it is from Feb 2017
Posted: Mon May 29, 2017 11:59 pm
by hippy
One thing I noted with the man pages is that both upgrade and dist-upgrade only mention packages, not firmware or kernel.
What confused me is people seeming to suggest it requires dist-upgrade to get a new kernel when upgrade seems to be enough. However, it also seemingly requires a reboot, which rarely gets mentioned.
Re: Raspbian April 2017 still says it is from Feb 2017
Posted: Tue May 30, 2017 4:59 am
by rpdom
hippy wrote:One thing I noted with the man pages is that both upgrade and dist-upgrade only mention packages, not firmware or kernel.
The man page of a package manager only mentions packages?
lol!
The firmware and kernels are in packages. Just the same as everything else. The package manager doesn't care what is in the packages.
What confused me is people seeming to suggest it requires dist-upgrade to get a new kernel when upgrade seems to be enough. However, it also seemingly requires a reboot, which rarely gets mentioned.
On most Debian based systems you do need to do a dist-upgrade to pull in a new kernel as each kernel version has its own package. There is a kernel meta-package that gets updated and Depends on the latest actual kernel package. So when you try upgrade it won't do it as it will require the installation of a new package (kernel-x.y.z).
The Pi is different as it only has the one package whose name doesn't change.
Re: Raspbian April 2017 still says it is from Feb 2017
Posted: Tue May 30, 2017 6:36 am
by PeterO
hippy wrote:
What confused me is people seeming to suggest it requires dist-upgrade to get a new kernel when upgrade seems to be enough. However, it also seemingly requires a reboot, which rarely gets mentioned.
I'm trying to find out just how many kernel upgrades there have been in the last six months, as I think there's some bad advice being given.
PeterO
Re: Raspbian April 2017 still says it is from Feb 2017
Posted: Tue May 30, 2017 7:51 am
by DirkS
PeterO wrote:hippy wrote:
What confused me is people seeming to suggest it requires dist-upgrade to get a new kernel when upgrade seems to be enough. However, it also seemingly requires a reboot, which rarely gets mentioned.
I'm trying to find out just how many kernel upgrades there have been in the last six months, as I think there's some bad advice being given.
PeterO
http://archive.raspberrypi.org/debian/p ... -firmware/
5 since december last year.
Re: Raspbian April 2017 still says it is from Feb 2017
Posted: Tue May 30, 2017 7:57 am
by PeterO
DirkS wrote:PeterO wrote:hippy wrote:
What confused me is people seeming to suggest it requires dist-upgrade to get a new kernel when upgrade seems to be enough. However, it also seemingly requires a reboot, which rarely gets mentioned.
I'm trying to find out just how many kernel upgrades there have been in the last six months, as I think there's some bad advice being given.
PeterO
http://archive.raspberrypi.org/debian/p ... -firmware/
5 since december last year.
Thanks, that was what I was looking for, but I was looking on GitHub where it isn't quite so obvious !
PeterO
Re: Raspbian April 2017 still says it is from Feb 2017
Posted: Tue May 30, 2017 8:48 am
by hippy
rpdom wrote:hippy wrote:One thing I noted with the man pages is that both upgrade and dist-upgrade only mention packages, not firmware or kernel.
The man page of a package manager only mentions packages?
lol!
The firmware and kernels are in packages.
I was not aware of that. That was a gap in my understanding.
Part of the reason for that was, though I am regularly running update and upgrade, and dist-upgrade when packages are kept back, that never actually updated the kernel in the same way that other non-kernel packages were updated.
That led me to believe upgrade and dist-upgrade were not updating the kernel, that kernels were different to packages.
The frequent claims that 'all one has to do to keep a system up to date is to run update, upgrade and/or dist-upgrade' seems not to be correct, is incomplete when it comes to kernels, because a reboot appears to be required.
I can understand why; it all makes sense now the situation is better understood. I had simply been led into not understanding what that situation was. Thanks for clarifying.