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New Jessie Image (2017-01-11) Difference ??

Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 12:26 am
by NetSecond
Hello,

since today is the new Raspbian Image online.

Where can I find the differences to the last version ??

Re: New Jessie Image (2017-01-11) Difference ??

Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 12:43 am
by ShiftPlusOne
Exactly the same image as the previous one. The only difference is that the boot partition is FAT32 instead of FAT16.

Re: New Jessie Image (2017-01-11) Difference ??

Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 8:59 am
by beta-tester
ShiftPlusOne wrote:Exactly the same image as the previous one. The only difference is that the boot partition is FAT32 instead of FAT16.
and why is it not documented in the release_notes ?!
http://downloads.raspberrypi.org/raspbi ... _notes.txt

i mean images and its release notes always should be in sync and consistent

Re: New Jessie Image (2017-01-11) Difference ??

Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 11:19 am
by SteveSpencer
ShiftPlusOne wrote:The only difference is that the boot partition is FAT32 instead of FAT16.
Which begs the question, why?

Re: New Jessie Image (2017-01-11) Difference ??

Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 11:30 am
by NickT
I too, also am puzzled as to why this change was done. I had forgotten or more likely, never knew the precise differences between FAT32 and FAt16 and therefore Googled for the answer. That took me to this Microsoft technet page https://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/lib ... 40351.aspx which contains the line :

FAT32 volumes are not accessible from any other operating systems other than Windows 95 OSR2 and Windows 98.


Worried by this, I thought 'how am I going to touch ssh in the boot partition to enable ssh for my headless pizero?'
However, it proved perfectly possible on my Ubuntu laptop and I could get a newly created Raspian lite image working headlessly on my pizero.

Please can someone explain the rationale behind this change.

Re: New Jessie Image (2017-01-11) Difference ??

Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 11:43 am
by ShiftPlusOne
SteveSpencer wrote:
ShiftPlusOne wrote:The only difference is that the boot partition is FAT32 instead of FAT16.
Which begs the question, why?
In some edge cases, the bootcode deals with FAT32 better than FAT16. I don't know the specifics.

Re: New Jessie Image (2017-01-11) Difference ??

Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 11:49 am
by mikerr
So the new image is mainly just an integration of all updates.

Can't imagine anything supporting fat16 but not fat32
- they're generally used interchangeably now.
(exFat is far less supported though)

Re: New Jessie Image (2017-01-11) Difference ??

Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 11:50 am
by jahboater
NickT wrote: FAT32 volumes are not accessible from any other operating systems other than Windows 95 OSR2 and Windows 98.
That's nonsense.

Re: New Jessie Image (2017-01-11) Difference ??

Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 11:52 am
by fred44nl
FAT32 volumes are not accessible from any other operating systems other than Windows 95 OSR2 and Windows 98.
[/quote]

you must be joking :)
FAT32 can be handled perfectly by other operating systems, such as OS X / MacOS.

Re: New Jessie Image (2017-01-11) Difference ??

Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 11:57 am
by NickT
jahboater wrote:
NickT wrote: FAT32 volumes are not accessible from any other operating systems other than Windows 95 OSR2 and Windows 98.
That's nonsense.
Correct, just as I found out from my own test. However it wasn't me that said the above, if you look at the link I posted it comes straight from Microsoft. Hence my initial concern, which prompted my testing.

Re: New Jessie Image (2017-01-11) Difference ??

Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 12:06 pm
by ShiftPlusOne
mikerr wrote:So the new image is mainly just an integration of all updates.
Not even that. It is exactly the last image, just with the first partition formatted differently. All the package versions are the same.

Re: New Jessie Image (2017-01-11) Difference ??

Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 12:09 pm
by evilkitty
NickT wrote: Correct, just as I found out from my own test. However it wasn't me that said the above, if you look at the link I posted it comes straight from Microsoft. Hence my initial concern, which prompted my testing.
Microsoft really needs to date there documents if they are not going to update them
That document has not been updated since they made Windows ME or 98SE (around year 2001)

Re: New Jessie Image (2017-01-11) Difference ??

Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 12:23 pm
by fruitoftheloom
NickT wrote:
jahboater wrote:
NickT wrote: FAT32 volumes are not accessible from any other operating systems other than Windows 95 OSR2 and Windows 98.
That's nonsense.
Correct, just as I found out from my own test. However it wasn't me that said the above, if you look at the link I posted it comes straight from Microsoft. Hence my initial concern, which prompted my testing.
That information is about 20 years out of date :roll:

Re: New Jessie Image (2017-01-11) Difference ??

Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 12:47 pm
by dasmanul
It certainly doesn't help that the page has "© 2017 Microsoft" at the bottom.

I've clicked on "not helpful" and commented accordingly, maybe it would help if others did the same?

Re: New Jessie Image (2017-01-11) Difference ??

Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 12:53 pm
by NickT
fruitoftheloom wrote: That information is about 20 years out of date :roll:
How would one know that it is 20 years out of date? If you do a Google search for +partition +FAT32 +FAT16 + difference, then the first result you will get is the page that I linked to in my original question. The only date on that page is the copyright symbol followed by 2017.

Your smug and sneering post is not helpful to me or to anyone else reading this thread. It would be better if you desisted from this type of response in future.

Re: New Jessie Image (2017-01-11) Difference ??

Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 12:58 pm
by fruitoftheloom
NickT wrote:
fruitoftheloom wrote: That information is about 20 years out of date :roll:
How would one know that it is 20 years out of date? If you do a Google search for +partition +FAT32 +FAT16 + difference, then the first result you will get is the page that I linked to in my original question. The only date on that page is the copyright symbol followed by 2017.

Your smug and sneering post is not helpful to me or to anyone else reading this thread. It would be better if you desisted from this type of response in future.
If you do not like my response REPORT it, you are not a Moderator and have absolutely zero right to tell me what I should post in this forum.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File_Allocation_Table

FAT32 was introduced with MS-DOS 7.1 / Windows 95 OSR2 in 1996

Re: New Jessie Image (2017-01-11) Difference ??

Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 1:01 pm
by Martin Frezman
Touchy, touchy...

Re: New Jessie Image (2017-01-11) Difference ??

Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 1:05 pm
by mikerr
ShiftPlusOne wrote:
mikerr wrote:So the new image is mainly just an integration of all updates.
Not even that. It is exactly the last image, just with the first partition formatted differently. All the package versions are the same.
Yes, just found that out - dist-upgrade on new image needs same as 2016-11-25

Code: Select all

61 upgraded, 18 newly installed, 0 to remove and 0 not upgraded.
Need to get 173 MB of archives.
After this operation, 128 MB of additional disk space will be used.
surely downloadable images should be as fresh and up to date as possible ?

Re: New Jessie Image (2017-01-11) Difference ??

Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 1:44 pm
by ShiftPlusOne
mikerr wrote:
ShiftPlusOne wrote:
mikerr wrote:So the new image is mainly just an integration of all updates.
Not even that. It is exactly the last image, just with the first partition formatted differently. All the package versions are the same.
Yes, just found that out - dist-upgrade on new image needs same as 2016-11-25

Code: Select all

61 upgraded, 18 newly installed, 0 to remove and 0 not upgraded.
Need to get 173 MB of archives.
After this operation, 128 MB of additional disk space will be used.
surely downloadable images should be as fresh and up to date as possible ?
Normally there is a period of internal testing and a few revisions before a proper release goes live. It was either releasing a whole new updated image without testing, sticking to what we know works (and the issues we already know about) or saving thing modification for the next release. The first option 'should' be fine, but that's exactly when things go wrong. There hasn't been a release scheduled in the next few weeks and there's no time to do one now, so that only leaves the second option.

Re: New Jessie Image (2017-01-11) Difference ??

Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 1:52 pm
by DougieLawson
Judging by the stuff posted on Twitter https://twitter.com/RPF_Dev_Updates/sta ... 5783580672 it's probably positioning things for the USB/PXE bootcode to go out on general availabilty.

Re: New Jessie Image (2017-01-11) Difference ??

Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 2:17 pm
by pi-anazazi
...just sniffing around in Wikipedia today a little.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Investiga ... s_Act_2016

sorry for (nearly?) OT!

Re: New Jessie Image (2017-01-11) Difference ??

Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 2:25 pm
by W. H. Heydt
ShiftPlusOne wrote: Normally there is a period of internal testing and a few revisions before a proper release goes live. It was either releasing a whole new updated image without testing, sticking to what we know works (and the issues we already know about) or saving thing modification for the next release. The first option 'should' be fine, but that's exactly when things go wrong. There hasn't been a release scheduled in the next few weeks and there's no time to do one now, so that only leaves the second option.
The most dangerous practice in programming is the "one line change".

Re: New Jessie Image (2017-01-11) Difference ??

Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 2:26 pm
by W. H. Heydt
DougieLawson wrote:Judging by the stuff posted on Twitter https://twitter.com/RPF_Dev_Updates/sta ... 5783580672 it's probably positioning things for the USB/PXE bootcode to go out on general availabilty.
If so, that would be a very positive development. I've been waiting for it to go live, and I'll be even more interested in it when the CM3L is launched.

Re: New Jessie Image (2017-01-11) Difference ??

Posted: Thu Jan 12, 2017 1:45 pm
by NetSecond
Thanks to all for the informations.

Re: New Jessie Image (2017-01-11) Difference ??

Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2017 3:47 pm
by beta-tester
beta-tester wrote:
ShiftPlusOne wrote:Exactly the same image as the previous one. The only difference is that the boot partition is FAT32 instead of FAT16.
and why is it not documented in the release_notes ?!
http://downloads.raspberrypi.org/raspbi ... _notes.txt

i mean images and its release notes always should be in sync and consistent
BTW: still not in the release_notes...
what is so complicated or hard to add two lines to the release_notes.txt file???
like
2017-01-11:
* boot partition is FAT32 instead of FAT16 now
2016-11-25:
* SSH disabled by default; can be enabled by creating a file with name "ssh" in boot partition
...