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mikerr
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Re: Introducing PIXEL desktop: new Raspbian release

Wed Sep 28, 2016 9:08 am

Good to finally to move to a more standard browser with chromium. Long overdue.
Epiphany was increasingly old and buggy - replacing it was always my first job on install...

All nice pretty changes, good for a desktop - but not sure on removing "cryptic boot messages"
- they are a standard part of linux and raspberry pi is supposed to be educating users, not hiding details - that is the way of apple :twisted: .

Mostly a great update !
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ShiftPlusOne
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Re: Introducing PIXEL desktop: new Raspbian release

Wed Sep 28, 2016 9:22 am

mikerr wrote:Good to finally to move to a more standard browser with chromium. Long overdue.
Epiphany was increasingly old and buggy - replacing it was always my first job on install...

All nice pretty changes, good for a desktop - but not sure on removing "cryptic boot messages"
- they are a standard part of linux and raspberry pi is supposed to be educating users, not hiding details - that is the way of apple :twisted: .

Mostly a great update !
Personally, I prefer to see the boot messages as well, but it's fairly trivial to take out 'splash' from cmdline.

There is also a bit of a conflict between having a fast, parallel init system and being able to see the boot messages. It's debatable whether boot messages are a standard part of the linux experience anymore. That's a bit of a controversial idea, but seems to be the direction systemd and many mainstream distros are heading.

jamesh
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Re: Introducing PIXEL desktop: new Raspbian release

Wed Sep 28, 2016 9:33 am

Boot messages go by too fast to read....so why have them when you can use dmesg to see them at your leisure?

And yes, they are cryptic to all but a minor percentage of users! And I doubt anyone in the whole world understands ALL the messages that come up - that would require detailed knowledge of every subsystem! Most mainline distro's use splash screens and forgo boot messages, it's not like this is a bolt from the blue!
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pi-anazazi
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Re: Introducing PIXEL desktop: new Raspbian release

Wed Sep 28, 2016 9:54 am

tightvnc now with encryption supported?
Kind regards

anazazi

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PeterO
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Re: Introducing PIXEL desktop: new Raspbian release

Wed Sep 28, 2016 9:58 am

Sorry to be "an old fart", but after seeing the blog entry and I'm thinking "But what if I'm not a child and I want icons for grown ups ?" :roll:
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ShiftPlusOne
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Re: Introducing PIXEL desktop: new Raspbian release

Wed Sep 28, 2016 9:59 am

pi-anazazi wrote:tightvnc now with encryption supported?
tightvnc hasn't been touched at all. RealVNC comes pre-installed, but I don't know if the applied license allows encryption. If you would like to use tightvnc with encryption, look up tightvnc ssh tunnelling.

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jjsanderson
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Re: Introducing PIXEL desktop: new Raspbian release

Wed Sep 28, 2016 10:00 am

I'm absolutely in support of ditching startup messages. You can't read them; they make very little sense to pretty much anyone except forum regulars; as the first thing a new user sees they're absolutely terrifying. The splash screen is (literally) more welcoming and familiar, I'm entirely happy for the user to be eased into challenges. Good decision, in my book.

I like the new icon set and window chrome too - feels more like a modern desktop rather than a Windows 95-era throwback. I'm having some issues with an updated image and will likely have to reinstall, but that's hardly a deal-breaker.

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mikerr
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Re: Introducing PIXEL desktop: new Raspbian release

Wed Sep 28, 2016 10:04 am

jamesh wrote:Boot messages go by too fast to read....so why have them when you can use dmesg to see them at your leisure?
when the boot stops/fails it stops scrolling and displays the last one, which is usually what killed it...

The big welcome change IMO is addition of chromium - epiphany crashed all the time for me.
Just loading it up on a new sd now to explore all the changes.
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pi-anazazi
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Re: Introducing PIXEL desktop: new Raspbian release

Wed Sep 28, 2016 10:12 am

ShiftPlusOne wrote:
pi-anazazi wrote:tightvnc now with encryption supported?
tightvnc hasn't been touched at all. RealVNC comes pre-installed, but I don't know if the applied license allows encryption. If you would like to use tightvnc with encryption, look up tightvnc ssh tunnelling.
Hmmm...
Is my connection encrypted?
Yes, if you have an Enterprise or a Personal license. Free licenses do not support end-to-end encryption,
https://www.realvnc.com/docs/faq/encryption.html

Very bad, in my opinion. Tunneling:Don't want to make things more complicated than they are.

...I'm about to test TigerVNC.
Kind regards

anazazi

spl23
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Re: Introducing PIXEL desktop: new Raspbian release

Wed Sep 28, 2016 10:14 am

PeterO wrote:Sorry to be "an old fart", but after seeing the blog entry and I'm thinking "But what if I'm not a child and I want icons for grown ups ?" :roll:
PeterO
Just install another icon theme, or revert to the standard Gnome one we were using before. The relevant setting is in ~/.config/lxsession/LXDE-pi/desktop.conf

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DougieLawson
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Re: Introducing PIXEL desktop: new Raspbian release

Wed Sep 28, 2016 10:14 am

PeterO wrote:Sorry to be "an old fart", but after seeing the blog entry and I'm thinking "But what if I'm not a child and I want icons for grown ups ?" :roll:
PeterO
What if I'm a mainframe luddite and want 24 lines of 80 characters in green / highlighted green on a black background. My current Raspberry desktops only have the waste basket (because I've not worked out how to remove that).

I also like that big bold Raspberry Logo, I don't need some random person's random holiday snaps.
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spl23
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Re: Introducing PIXEL desktop: new Raspbian release

Wed Sep 28, 2016 10:50 am

DougieLawson wrote:My current Raspberry desktops only have the waste basket (because I've not worked out how to remove that).
In ~/.config/pcmanfm/LXDE-pi/desktop-items-0.conf, change "show_trash=1" to "show_trash=0"
DougieLawson wrote:I also like that big bold Raspberry Logo, I don't need some random person's random holiday snaps.
The big Raspberry logo is still available - it's in /usr/share/raspberrypi-artwor/raspberry-pi-logo-small.png - just select it in Appearance Settings, with the option to centre image on screen.
DougieLawson wrote:What if I'm a mainframe luddite and want 24 lines of 80 characters in green / highlighted green on a black background.
Probably can't help you there... ;)

B.Goode
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Re: Introducing PIXEL desktop: new Raspbian release

Wed Sep 28, 2016 11:37 am

Already asked in the blog comments, but apparently unanswered - maybe because it is unrelated to the UI:

"Do the kernel+firmware for this release of Raspbian change the beta/experimental status of msd and network booting?"

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sconemad
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Re: Introducing PIXEL desktop: new Raspbian release

Wed Sep 28, 2016 12:02 pm

pi-anazazi wrote:
ShiftPlusOne wrote:
pi-anazazi wrote:tightvnc now with encryption supported?
tightvnc hasn't been touched at all. RealVNC comes pre-installed, but I don't know if the applied license allows encryption. If you would like to use tightvnc with encryption, look up tightvnc ssh tunnelling.
Hmmm...
Is my connection encrypted?
Yes, if you have an Enterprise or a Personal license. Free licenses do not support end-to-end encryption,
https://www.realvnc.com/docs/faq/encryption.html

Very bad, in my opinion. Tunneling:Don't want to make things more complicated than they are.

...I'm about to test TigerVNC.
The Raspberry Pi Edition of RealVNC Server does support end-to-end encryption - see the announcement here:

https://www.realvnc.com/news/realvnc-an ... oundation/

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DougieLawson
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Re: Introducing PIXEL desktop: new Raspbian release

Wed Sep 28, 2016 12:24 pm

The kernel image (in the new Jessie Lite) is from the master branch

Code: Select all

DTOKLinux version 4.4.21-v7+ (dc4@dc4-XPS13-9333) (gcc version 4.9.3 (crosstool-NG crosstool-ng-1.22.0-88-g8460611) ) #911 SMP Thu Sep 15 14:22:38 BST 2016
so it does not have the USB/PXE booting code in there.
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dasmanul
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Re: Introducing PIXEL desktop: new Raspbian release

Wed Sep 28, 2016 12:45 pm

The blog post mentions turning off Wifi and Bluetooth on the Pi 3. Does this actually power off the respective devices? I seem to remember that this was not possible on the Pi 3 up to now. Is this also available from the command line?

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Re: Introducing PIXEL desktop: new Raspbian release

Wed Sep 28, 2016 1:06 pm

dasmanul wrote:The blog post mentions turning off Wifi and Bluetooth on the Pi 3. Does this actually power off the respective devices? I seem to remember that this was not possible on the Pi 3 up to now. Is this also available from the command line?

A recent addition to the comments:
The command-line tool is called rfkill.

To turn off wifi, do rfkill block wifi; to turn it on, do rfkill unblock wifi.

For Bluetooth, rfkill block bluetooth and rfkill unblock bluetooth.

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Paeryn
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Re: Introducing PIXEL desktop: new Raspbian release

Wed Sep 28, 2016 2:09 pm

Not a fan of the splash screen (I like my messages), and definitely not a fan of these almost borderless windows which extend past the visible point. W10 annoyed me with that, shame to see the RPi going down the same route. Borders are around the windows for a very good reason, it's not as though modern displays haven't got enough room to spare a few extra pixels. It's really annoying when you want to select something on a window behind (or at the side of) the current one that you can clearly see but the window manager says "no, I'll resize the window that you clearly are not pointing at instead".

Photographs as backgrounds aren't my thing either, I want the background to be unobtrusive. Similarly with the icons, whilst they are nice they are bit too childish for my taste. Can anyone tell me what that icon in the middle of the Public Folder icon is supposed to represent? It reminds me of an old Kempston Joystick (albeit green rather than red).

Ho hum, time to go hunting to see what I need to change to get a proper desktop look back.
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frtlr
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Re: Introducing PIXEL desktop: new Raspbian release

Wed Sep 28, 2016 2:48 pm

Hi,

I hav a question. After the upgrade lcpanel gone and even after restart it does not show up. Did some one faced that issue? And does anyone have a solution for that.

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pi-anazazi
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Re: Introducing PIXEL desktop: new Raspbian release

Wed Sep 28, 2016 3:03 pm

sconemad wrote:The Raspberry Pi Edition of RealVNC Server does support end-to-end encryption - see the announcement here:

https://www.realvnc.com/news/realvnc-an ... oundation/
Very nice! Thanks for reply!

would like to eat your avatar, btw...
Kind regards

anazazi

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fruitoftheloom
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Re: Introducing PIXEL desktop: new Raspbian release

Wed Sep 28, 2016 3:48 pm

BELLISIMO :D :D
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mikerr
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Re: Introducing PIXEL desktop: new Raspbian release

Wed Sep 28, 2016 4:10 pm

Changing/removing the splash screen:

Removing it:
edit /boot/cmdline.txt

Code: Select all

dwc_otg.lpm_enable=0 console=serial0,115200 console=tty1 root=/dev/mmcblk0p2 rootfstype=ext4 elevator=deadline fsck.repair=yes rootwait quiet splash plymouth.ignore-serial-consoles
remove the word splash to get rid of the splash screen
remove the word quiet to get more of the scrolling dmesg text back too.

You can also replace the splash screen with a pic of your choice by placing a png here:
/usr/share/plymouth/themes/pix/splash.png
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linux_author
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Re: Introducing PIXEL desktop: new Raspbian release

Wed Sep 28, 2016 4:30 pm

that "trail of cryptic boot messages" is helpful to me and has been helpful over the last year or so when crafting the Raspbian distro for duplication on my RPis...

ah well... <sigh> yet another editing task to add to the list...

i'm sure there are other improvements... will check out the browser, etc.

willie
on the trying-to-keep-distro-bloat-in-check Gulf of Mexico

scotty101
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Re: Introducing PIXEL desktop: new Raspbian release

Wed Sep 28, 2016 4:57 pm

There are always critics.

This is a brilliant change given the initial aims of the Raspberry Pi to inspire young people to get in to computing the way the Spectrum etc. did for the kids of the 1980s.

Great work.
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