reijin
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Re: Will the device be sort of "fairtrade"?

Sun Oct 09, 2011 2:16 pm

Hey guys!
I recently asked myself, if the RaPi, will be manufactured under fair conditions for workers. Since other manufacturers like Apple are known for headlines like \"Apple admits to toxic chemicals at China plant\"; \"Survey accuses Foxconn of more labor law violations\" or \"Apple secretive about its supply chain\". Please dont get me wrong, I really like the idea of a affordable PC for everyone.
But consider the following: would a technology like this be worth it, if it was achieved by causing bad (working) conditions of other humans?

Greetings,
reijin

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ukscone
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Re: Will the device be sort of "fairtrade"?

Sun Oct 09, 2011 2:26 pm

The device is being manufactured in the UK so all UK labour laws will be followed.

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Jongoleur
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Re: Will the device be sort of "fairtrade"?

Sun Oct 09, 2011 2:33 pm

OMG......
I'm just a bouncer, splatterers do it with more force.....

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Gabriel
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Re: Will the device be sort of "fairtrade"?

Sun Oct 09, 2011 2:42 pm

Wow ! I missed this point !
But what does \"manufactured\" means ? Only assembled with already produced chips or build from scratch?
Anyway wow ! ;)
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Re: Will the device be sort of "fairtrade"?

Sun Oct 09, 2011 2:44 pm

ok probably poor choice of words.

the board will be assembled in the UK, the chips will come from where ever chips come from these days.

reijin
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Re: Will the device be sort of "fairtrade"?

Sun Oct 09, 2011 3:10 pm

[quote]Quote from ukscone on October 9, 2011, 15:44
ok probably poor choice of words.

the board will be assembled in the UK, the chips will come from where ever chips come from these days. [/quote]
glad to hear that :)

@Jongoleur:
//misunderstanding! ;)

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Re: Will the device be sort of "fairtrade"?

Sun Oct 09, 2011 3:39 pm

@reijin:

*sigh*

The scope of \"OMG...\" was merely an insular response to ukscones reply. :-)

(Its ok, I\'d just read an article on the BBC News website about unscrupulous UK employers - NO connection with anything technical, I may add...)
I'm just a bouncer, splatterers do it with more force.....

reijin
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Re: Will the device be sort of "fairtrade"?

Sun Oct 09, 2011 3:49 pm

[quote]Quote from Jongoleur on October 9, 2011, 16:39
@reijin:

*sigh*

The scope of \"OMG...\" was merely an insular response to ukscones reply. :-)
[/quote]
arghs xD
very sry for the misunderstanding - I take my answer back right now! :)

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Re: Will the device be sort of "fairtrade"?

Sun Oct 09, 2011 3:57 pm

well i\'m not exactly sure what Jongoleur means by the \"OMG\"

reijin
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Re: Will the device be sort of "fairtrade"?

Sun Oct 09, 2011 3:58 pm

[quote]Quote from ukscone on October 9, 2011, 16:57
well i\'m not exactly sure what Jongoleur means by the \"OMG\" [/quote]
yeah, it is a bit tooo short to be an answer - but on the other hand is very open for interpretations :D

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Re: Will the device be sort of "fairtrade"?

Sun Oct 09, 2011 5:48 pm

Broadcom are a fabless semi company, so all manufacture is contracted out to who ever made semiconductors for others, which is a pretty small list. And generally, pretty well paid for those who work there as it\'s a very skilled job.

In my experience, Broadcom is a good employer too.
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Re: Will the device be sort of "fairtrade"?

Mon Oct 10, 2011 1:39 am

There are more parts involved in making one of these things than there are in your average banana. If you know of fair-trade certified manufacturers of, say, resistors, transistors, diodes, a variety of integrated circuits, LEDs and capacitors, then we\'d be more than happy to take a look, but imposing fair trade constraints on a project like this is infinitely more complicated than it would be in making a chocolate bar. What I *can* say, though, is that by making lots of these devices we are ensuring that people have jobs not just where the Raspberry Pi is assembled, but where its parts are made too.
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Re: Will the device be sort of "fairtrade"?

Mon Oct 10, 2011 3:11 am

fairtrade meh. The Victorians had the right idea.

if you were rich then you\'d have a wet nurse then a nanny then once they were old enough you\'d send the kids away to boarding school until they were 18 or could hold a decent conversation.

If you were poor then as soon as the kids could walk you\'d send them down the mines or up a chimney.

Oh how I miss the good old days, now get off my lawn
:D

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Re: Will the device be sort of "fairtrade"?

Mon Oct 10, 2011 7:15 am

It came as quite a shock to me when I discovered that I could no longer send my children up chimney\'s so they could earn their keep. Now I have to pay for everything.,

Political correctness gone mad, I tell ya.
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Re: Will the device be sort of "fairtrade"?

Mon Oct 10, 2011 7:23 am

At least you can get proper chocolate under the fairtrade banner nowadays. I remember when all you could get was that revolting \"carob\" stuff.... Bananas with melted chocolate drizzled over them, now THATS a fair trade!
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Re: Will the device be sort of "fairtrade"?

Mon Oct 10, 2011 7:51 am

@jamesh: send them *down* the chimney and tell them it\'s vocational training for father christmas jobs ?

More seriously, fair trade seems more relevant to me in the case of stuff that\'s mainly agricultural (stuff we eat), or extractive (copper...) or manual-manufacturing-intensive (shoes, clothes, furniture...). The Pi is mainly a bunch of robot-produced chips and robot-produced connectors, robot-mounted on a board ( and we already know that last stage happens in England). I\'m sure there\'s a bit a cringe-worthy nastiness in the process somewhere, but probably not a lot, and it would cost a bundle to identify it, root it out, and keep checking it doesn\'t pop back in.

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Re: Will the device be sort of "fairtrade"?

Mon Oct 10, 2011 2:47 pm

[quote][The Pi is mainly a bunch of robot-produced chips and robot-produced connectors, robot-mounted on a board..... I\'m sure there\'s a bit a cringe-worthy nastiness in the process somewhere,....[/quote]
Sure. No one thinks of the mistreatment of the robots, and then something like this http://www.theonion.com/articles/americ ... obot,1232/ happens.

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Re: Will the device be sort of "fairtrade"?

Mon Oct 10, 2011 3:23 pm

If it\'s not \"Fair trade\" then it\'s \"Unfair Trade\" and all that implies.
Me I would rather pay more for a Fairtrade Raspi, very glad to hear it\'s being assembled at least in UK, well done!

williamsj
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Re: Will the device be sort of "fairtrade"?

Wed Oct 12, 2011 6:26 pm

OK, read enough.

My view on the whole project is that it is an attempt to re-enforce what the BBC did with the BBC Computer and what Clive Sinclair did with the MK14 et al a loooong time ago :-)

This is a matter or trying to set a standard that the education community can use to teach our kids the 3 R\'s of the 21st century.

It does not matter who sets the standard as long as it is open and free for everyone to learn the new vital skill of driving computers. And I do not mean how to create a spreadsheet!!

This skill of not only knowing how to drive the vehicle, but also how to service and maintain it is as vital today as the skills of writing and arithmetic were 20 years ago.

Those of us in the industry can benefit from this standard mass production by creating products at a far lower cost than was previously feasible. Home NAS solutions, Video Surveillance, Alarm Systems etc. Exactly the same thing was done on the base of the BBC Computer a long time ago.

This setting of standards was picked up an severely abused by Microsoft in the late 70\'s and early 80\'s, and I for one would be overjoyed if there were to be a repeat performance of the BBC Micro project in an environment where all can share and no one corporation grabs all the profit.

Finally if you are going to benefit from the project financially, then you should also contribute to the project, either with open source versions of your applications, or with premium payments for the systems. If you are going to make 2-300% profit on your product because a charity has designed and manufactured your platform, the I feel it is only right that you pay your share of the costs..

OK now I will stop rambling

John

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Re: Will the device be sort of "fairtrade"?

Thu Oct 13, 2011 12:51 am

@williamsj - well put but... how does that relate to fair trade?
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Re: Will the device be sort of

Mon Oct 14, 2013 1:27 am

Is is now possible to get FairTrade Foundation-certified gold, and ethically-sourced tantalum, tin, and tungsten.

The Fairphone was recently announced in London, and is getting a fair bit of attention.
http://inhabitat.com/the-worlds-first-e ... in-london/

Would someone like to help me contact Fairphone, investigate the Raspberry Pi BOM, and see whether this is practical?

I'd be very pleased to see a FairTrade Raspberry Pi on the market. Already the RPi is proving that small charities can succeed in electronics manufacturing - we don't have to set up a large multinational to build a product. Small startups and charities often set an example to large companies by proving what's possible. Given the continued media attention to the Raspberry Pi, this could be a huge opportunity to inspire the industry.

The FairTrade premium is typically invested in communities for sustainable development and education, so it fits with the educational goals of the Foundation.

Peter

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Re: Will the device be sort of

Mon Oct 14, 2013 7:58 am

"Fair trade" is when I pay someone for a product and we both agree that it's a fair exchange of value. My money for his goods. We are both happy.

"Un-fair trade" is when I don't buy something because someone down the supply chain is perceived to be getting a bad deal.
Then I am miserable because I don't get the goods, my supplier is miserable because he does not get my money and every one down the supply chain is miserable because they have no job any more.

ergo "fair trade" is unfair.

obarthelemy has not thought his trough enough. Ultimately the Pi is extracted (like copper) out of the ground. The materials for all those pars had to come from somewhere. There are some horror stories about the extraction of the raw materials required in electronics, for example tantalum: http://www.globalissues.org/article/442 ... ell-phones

I suspect the mere administrative overhead of checking the "fairness" of treatment of everyone in the supply chain that creates the Pi would drive it's price in to the stratosphere. It would no long be a marketable proposition. Immediately resulting in 40 odd lost jobs in the production plant in Wales and further bad effects rippling down the line.

Perhaps Apple can make a show of policing it's suppliers, but then look at the huge profits they have been making and the excessively high price of their goods.

Just say no to "fair trade".

P.S. I suspect that such a political debate is beyond the scope of these forums.
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Re: Will the device be sort of

Mon Oct 14, 2013 9:36 am

Zombie thread, but hey:

http://www.sony.net/SonyInfo/csr_report ... materials/

Sony has a policy of preventing "conflict minerals" from entering their supply chain. This includes all of the components that end up in an assembled Pi.
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toxibunny
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Re: Will the device be sort of

Mon Oct 14, 2013 10:06 am

That's not fair to the warlords.
note: I may or may not know what I'm talking about...

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Re: Will the device be sort of

Mon Oct 14, 2013 11:22 am

It's not fair to me either. It increases the price of the PI:)

Of course those miners of "conflict materials" don't have so much work to do so they are getting hungry as well, perhaps increasing the conflict.

Who knows. The road to hell is paved with good intentions as they used to say.
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