Is this legal? "www.Raspberry-Pi-Store.co.uk"

[zardoz99]

I saw this on Ebay. Would this even be legal to use?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Raspberry-Pi- ... 556wt_1200

I suspect it violates trademark and domain-squatting policies. Liz?

Update. Just read http://www.raspberrypi.org/trademark-rules and notified the seller that it's a violation.

Z

[liz]

Thanks for the spot. We do have someone (the most excellent Helen) spending a few hours a week chasing down trademark violations for us, but it's really helpful when you guys spot things and let us know about them.

We don't enforce the trademark because we're horrid people; we have to be seen to defend it properly in case someone in the future tries to assert that they own it. If we haven't demonstrably gone after stuff like this, it would mean that such a person would have a defence in any court case. It does cause us some pain when we have to ask some people (especially some good folk who are running websites or making something as a hobby) to stop using our logo, or to retitle their sites. It's a horrible thing to have to do, and I try to make sure that I explain as well as I can to those people why we have to ask them to do that.

But then you get guys like this one, who are just using this thing we've made (at quite a large personal cost and with no salaries) to make money for themselves without giving anything back, and we don't suffer *any* pangs of conscience asking them to stop. We'll be sending him a request to stop too, and then escalating with eBay if he doesn't.

[xxxstarmanxxx]

Curious to how this turns out - because as I understand it Raspberry-Pi-Store doesn't infringe on the 'Raspberry Pi' word mark due to the dashes.

I may be wrong but I don't think that can be classed as a trademark violation

Take a look at these sites that have been up for months without challenge::

http://www.raspberry-pi.co.uk
http://www.raspberrypiforums.com

Personally I don't see anything wrong with the domain name providing its offering the community something of use.

Justin

[liz]

We gave both of those fan sites our permission and a licence to use those domains. The hyphens in this case don't make any difference at all. (I used to be a lawyer, btw; this isn't "as I see it". It's how IP law works.)

[Westmead Hawk]

[quote]I may be wrong but I don't think that can be classed as a trademark violation[/quote

The mere addition of hyphens would not be enough to escape an allegation of infringement of a validly registered word mark.

The relevant laws in Europe derive from Council Directive 89/104. If you're interested, Google the directive and have a look at Articles 5(1)(a) and 5(1)(b) which describe the rights which each member state must confer on the proprietors of registered trade marks in those states.

In the UK, Articles 5(1)(a) and 5(1)(b) were enacted as sections 10(1) and 10(2) of the Trade Marks Act 1994.

In a case like this one, the claimant would allege infringement under both sections, with 10(2) being the banker. However, you wouldn't bother with UK law, you would just invoke the eBay rule book.

Invoice follows.

[xxxstarmanxxx]

It seems the Ebay seller has already sold a Raspberry Pi domain name back in May 2012 for £6.50 lol

Doesn't seem like his new money making venture is working as he's dropped the price of the latest offering to £19.99 haha!

Got to love Ebay sharks

[zardoz99]

What this shows is that :

a) he is now aware of the trade mark violation (I got a one word reply from him within Ebay).
b) he has no intention of withdrawing the listing but is trying to "shift it" as fast as possible.

Over to the Foundation now I guess to invoke Ebay...

Z.

[hippy]

I saw this on Ebay. Would this even be legal to use?

That's an interesting question and, importantly, "use" is not the same as owning or trading the domain name.

The seller is obviously suggesting it could be used with the Raspberry Pi computer product but there are other products out there, particularly related to the pi symbol when raspberry coloured, for which it could also potentially be used. Those products appear to pre-date and not relate to the Raspberry Pi Foundation and computer product. It seems somewhat unfair that people could not use a domain name which relates to their product and could even be 'put out of business' through alleged trademark infringement. The courts have undoubtedly dealt with such situations in the past and case law is where one would really have to look.

The seller may be infringing the mark in other ways but in relation to the domain name being owned or traded it may be more complicated and less clear-cut than it first seems.

[zardoz99]

For example?


Z.

[tufty]

Pi-product, rather than product-pi, surely?

As for the ebay seller, he should be strung up fom the nearest greengrocer's shopfront as atonement for his awful grammar and spelling.

Simon

[Westmead Hawk]

in relation to the domain name being owned or traded it may be more complicated and less clear-cut than it first seems

In England at least it's pretty clear cut where the domain name was registered after the trade mark was registered and is being openly offered for sale.

Nominet's website has a clear explanation of why owning/trading in domain names that incorporate other people's trade marks can land you in trouble:

http://www.nominet.org.uk/disputes/case ... x/million/

[hippy]

I think the thing there is "can" and the judge indicates that there can be times where the use of registered trademarks in third party domain names can be acceptable. There's similar case law in the US where the same judgement has been made.