Noobs 1.3.10 and OS distros

[xDR1TeK]

Hi all
This weekend was a field day for me, all about raspberrypi; however, latest noobs 1.3.10 didn't have the other distros in the zip file. Only Raspbian.
Am i missing something?


Well, i found feedback here:
http://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/viewt ... 85#p612985

[DougieLawson]

I suspected something had gone wrong with your download. When I unzip NOOBS 1.3.10 I get the following files:

Code: Select all

Archive:  ../NOOBS_v1_3_10.zip
  inflating: BUILD-DATA
  inflating: INSTRUCTIONS-README.txt
 extracting: RECOVERY_FILES_DO_NOT_EDIT
  inflating: bootcode.bin
   creating: defaults/
   creating: defaults/slides/
  inflating: defaults/slides/A.png
   creating: os/
   creating: os/Raspbian/
  inflating: os/Raspbian/root.tar.xz
  inflating: os/Raspbian/boot.tar.xz
  inflating: os/Raspbian/partition_setup.sh
 extracting: os/Raspbian/Raspbian.png
   creating: os/Raspbian/slides_vga/
  inflating: os/Raspbian/slides_vga/G.png
  inflating: os/Raspbian/slides_vga/B.png
  inflating: os/Raspbian/slides_vga/C.png
  inflating: os/Raspbian/slides_vga/D.png
  inflating: os/Raspbian/slides_vga/E.png
  inflating: os/Raspbian/slides_vga/F.png
  inflating: os/Raspbian/slides_vga/A.png
  inflating: os/Raspbian/partitions.json
  inflating: os/Raspbian/flavours.json
 extracting: os/Raspbian/Raspbian_-_Boot_to_Scratch.png
  inflating: os/Raspbian/os.json
  inflating: os/Raspbian/release_notes.txt
   creating: os/Data_Partition/
 extracting: os/Data_Partition/Data_Partition.png
  inflating: os/Data_Partition/partitions.json
  inflating: os/Data_Partition/os.json
 extracting: os/Data_Partition/data.tar.xz
  inflating: recovery.cmdline
  inflating: recovery.elf
  inflating: recovery.img
  inflating: recovery.rfs
  inflating: riscos-boot.bin

So it does look like the new version is badly built and missing lots of stuff.

[mahjongg]

What do you mean? Either there is something wrong with the download, OR the new version is badly built and missing lots of stuff. Which of the two is the case in your opinion?

[DirkS]

Actually it's neither. See https://github.com/raspberrypi/noobs/re ... ag/v1.3.10

v1.3.10 Release
Andrew Scheller lurch released this 3 days ago

Minor release

NOOBS now only includes Raspbian by default, other distros can be network-installed. This makes NOOBS usable on 4GB cards again (fixes #176 )

[DougieLawson]

Doesn't that completely defeat the point of NOOBS since the Openelec and Raspbmc users now have to have a reliable (wired) internet connection to their Raspberry Pi earlier in the process?

[mahjongg]

Sigh, thats nice. this will cause lots of confusion!

At least there should be a clear indication on the download site what is happening!

I thought this was what NOOBS lite was for!

I warned the other moderators, and moved the thread to general discussion....

I can confirm that the OS directory now only contains the raspbian, and a data partition folder, all other OS's are not included!

[glossywhite]

I'd guess that this has more to do with bandwidth costs than "convenience", which, funnily enough, it takes AWAY.

[hippy]

I can understand the argument for having a NOOBS which suits 4GB cards but it does feel a shame to lose the choice of OS's. Perhaps the solution is a NOOBS for 4GB and a NOOBS for larger cards ?

[Joe Schmoe]

Or a way to download the OS files you need (on demand - i.e., if you want RiscOS, you download RiscOS.ZIP and unzip it onto the NOOBS card before booting it on the Pi).

[fruitoftheloom]

I can understand the argument for having a NOOBS which suits 4GB cards but it does feel a shame to lose the choice of OS's. Perhaps the solution is a NOOBS for 4GB and a NOOBS for larger cards ?

Considering the RPi is a learning tool, teaching people how to install a standalone Operating System is a must.

NOOBS was meant to make it Windows Centric Easy (this is not learning) and has now defeated its own goal, IMO

[B.Goode]

Sigh, thats nice. this will cause lots of confusion!

At least there should be a clear indication on the download site what is happening!

I thought this was what NOOBS lite was for!

I warned the other moderators, and moved the thread to general discussion....

I can confirm that the OS directory now only contains the raspbian, and a data partition folder, all other OS's are not included!

Thanks @mahjongg for your efforts to raise the profile of this. Perhaps you and the other mods could 'encourage' the developers to now update the online documentation so that it reflects the change that they have just made. The documentation linked from the RPF Downloads Page says explicitly:

The full version has the images of each of the operating systems included, so they can be installed from the SD card while offline, whereas NOOBS Lite requires an internet connection to download the selected operating system.

That's plainly WRONG and unhelpful. I have opened an Issue #212 on the NOOBS github page.

[rpdom]

Or a way to download the OS files you need (on demand - i.e., if you want RiscOS, you download RiscOS.ZIP and unzip it onto the NOOBS card before booting it on the Pi).

I think that's a good idea. Perhaps have a "NOOBS Base version", then have the "NOOBS OS Packs" downloads to add whichever OS you want.

[r3d4]

NOOBS was meant to make it Windows Centric Easy (this is not learning) and has now defeated its own goal, IMO

I have also thaught that is the case for what its worth , but i guess the large popularty of the pi means some flexibility of the (ab)original goal is needed to accommodate for demand.

[mahjongg]

i'm not against the idea, it would actually make NOOBS lite obsolete, but I think its just wrong to suddenly change the way NOOBS work without warning, and without having suitable documentation in place.

[procount]

In parallel with this discussion I raised an issue #213 https://github.com/raspberrypi/noobs/issues/213 to help make the installation more flexible. Similar to the above suggestions with an extension.

[hippy]

Or a way to download the OS files you need (on demand - i.e., if you want RiscOS, you download RiscOS.ZIP and unzip it onto the NOOBS card before booting it on the Pi).

+1 and to everyone backing this and thanks to procount for officially raising the issue.

That mechanism is perfectly understandable for someone familiar with Windows. I steered clear of NOOBS Lite because I wasn't sure what obstacles I might encounter setting my Pi / network up and wanted the easiest ride possible.

It also opens the way for people to create their own OS's or distros which can then be easily used with NOOBS and easily installed by users. The Foundation can host 'official downloads', others can host their own.

[procount]

See also issue #202 https://github.com/raspberrypi/noobs/issues/202 which could be integrated.

[euhmeuh]

In the meantime... is there a way someone can briefly explain how local OSes images are structured now ?
It seems there's json description files and so on... but I didn't got the time to get into these yet.

I'd like to add an Archlinux image locally (as I used to do before) because my PI can't access the Internet, but I struggle to find any explanation about how to do that properly (I checked on my other PI which has an older version of NOOBS, there was just an "archlinux.xz" file).

How does it work now ? I'm kinda lost...

[hippy]

In the meantime... is there a way someone can briefly explain how local OSes images are structured now ? ... How does it work now ? I'm kinda lost...

I can't help with that but you can find info on NOOBS here ...

https://github.com/raspberrypi/noobs

[W. H. Heydt]

I will admit that my only use of NOOBS so far is as a demo at Jams...and that without a wired connection (though I do have a way that I could fake one by using a wireless access client...with or without a router).

Having said that, what would probably work best for the most people would be some "cookbook" process that could run on any sort of system (Windows, Linux, OSX) that would permit adding an OS package to a NOOBS image *before* loading the image to an SD card.

So...the question becomes this... IF one were to add an OS package from, say rel. 1.3.9, to 1.3.10 would 1.3.10 "see": that OS package and offer to install it without any other modifications to the overall image? If so, could the download page (or an "Advanced" download page linked from it) have NOOBS-packaged OSes that could be downloaded and manually added by end users?

[DougieLawson]

It should just work with extras in the /os folder unless the NOOBS installer has been radically rewritten for release 10.

I may give it a go tomorrow.

EDIT: I copied RaspBMC and OpenELEC from a copy of NOOBS 1.3.7 that I had on my NAS and that works with NOOBS 1.3.10

[Axilot]

So the solution is download a previous version of noobs from archive
http://downloads.raspberrypi.org/NOOBS/images/
and the copy the os on os folder of last version of noobs ?

[DougieLawson]

So the solution is download a previous version of noobs from archive
http://downloads.raspberrypi.org/NOOBS/images/
and the copy the os on os folder of last version of noobs ?

That's the non-optimal solution. The best solution is to wire your Raspberry Pi to your Router before starting NOOBS for the first time. It can then download the latest versions of OS'es that aren't included from the Internet.

[W. H. Heydt]

So the solution is download a previous version of noobs from archive
http://downloads.raspberrypi.org/NOOBS/images/
and the copy the os on os folder of last version of noobs ?

That's the non-optimal solution. The best solution is to wire your Raspberry Pi to your Router before starting NOOBS for the first time. It can then download the latest versions of OS'es that aren't included from the Internet.

Sorry. Can't agree...at least not completely. Yes, wiring the Pi to a router will certainly make NOOBS/NOOBSLite work as desired, but that is not always an option...for a variety of reasons. As I've already noted, I use NOOBS to demo OS installs at Jams. Don't have access to a wired connection, so anything I want to demo has to be on the SD card. Others may not have access to a router, either because there are no spare ports (yeah...go buy a switch and rewire...) or because their entire connection is wireless.

As I noted, I can fake a wired connection (IF the public wireless is sufficiently reliable), but that's because I have a couple of devices that can be configured as access clients. However, to config one for a public WiFi, I need to be able to access it through a web interface...which can't be done by a Pi that has yet to install an OS. Nor is this solution one that all that many people are likely to (a) have the equipment to do, and (b) would know could be done. Thus not an expected NOOBS solution.

I'm not trying to be difficult about this, but the RPF has painted itself into a corner on NOOBS. Keeping NOOBS the way it is, but either adding another NOOBS package that includes several OSes or creating a download page that has a bunch of pre-package-for-NOOBS OSes would solve these issues. With the later approach, it could be left up to those maintaining the various distros to supply current NOOBS packages to be added to the "NOOBS expansion download page".

[DougieLawson]

That's why I said "non-optimal" because the new user can't do it easily. It requires some knowledge of how NOOBS works and where to download the files for the ../os directory. It should be possible to have a "fatten NOOBS lite" package for each of the selectable os versions.

I can get a wired connection anywhere that my laptop can access the WiFi, but that requires understanding how to bridge networks on windows. (I believe it can be done on a Mac.)