User avatar
liz
Raspberry Pi Foundation Employee & Forum Moderator
Raspberry Pi Foundation Employee & Forum Moderator
Posts: 5212
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2011 7:22 pm
Contact: Website

New web browser - it's here!

Mon Sep 01, 2014 12:32 pm

Just in case you haven't seen the blog today: we launched the new web browser this morning. Plenty to play with, including hardware-optimised video, much better HTML5 support, and lots more! Check out http://www.raspberrypi.org/web-browser-released/ for more, and for a download.
Director of Communications, Raspberry Pi

gkreidl
Posts: 6307
Joined: Thu Jan 26, 2012 1:07 pm
Location: Germany

Re: New web browser - it's here!

Mon Sep 01, 2014 1:19 pm

Sorry, Liz, but the price we have to pay for this is high - too high in my opinion.

Raspbian Wheezy isn't Wheezy any more and not Jessie either, it's something in between. In order to get the new browser working you had to replace a large part of the OS with newer packages and now lots of other applications are throwing errors without end (lxterminal, synaptic, openbox and even epiphany itself ... and I've just started testing). All software using GTK+-3 may run into problems now.

HW accelerated video? Go to youtube.com and test it. About one frame /second.

And all programs using webkitgtk-3 are also affected. Wrong (complementary) colors in 32bit true color mode, pixel errors in images, Javascript freezing everything. memory segfaults (real crashes) and a terrible slow loading of images (you can see how they are built in stripes).

If only epiphany would have problems (this is still very much beta in my view), that would be OK, but lots of other programs have been affected that used to be very stable until now.
Minimal Kiosk Browser (kweb)
Slim, fast webkit browser with support for audio+video+playlists+youtube+pdf+download
Optional fullscreen kiosk mode and command interface for embedded applications
Includes omxplayerGUI, an X front end for omxplayer

User avatar
raspberrypiguy1
Posts: 379
Joined: Sun Sep 02, 2012 7:01 pm

Re: New web browser - it's here!

Mon Sep 01, 2014 1:21 pm

HW accelerated video? Go to youtube.com and test it. About one frame /second.
Incorrect. I have been watching YouTube on it this morning and I would say it delivers at least 30 frames +

The Raspberry Pi Guy
Matt, The Raspberry Pi Guy YouTube channel, author of Learn Robotics with Raspberry Pi, available now: http://mybook.to/raspirobots, Computer Science & Electronics Undergraduate at The University of Edinburgh

gkreidl
Posts: 6307
Joined: Thu Jan 26, 2012 1:07 pm
Location: Germany

Re: New web browser - it's here!

Mon Sep 01, 2014 1:44 pm

raspberrypiguy1 wrote:
HW accelerated video? Go to youtube.com and test it. About one frame /second.
Incorrect. I have been watching YouTube on it this morning and I would say it delivers at least 30 frames +

The Raspberry Pi Guy
Not here. Perhaps it's not compatible with gstreamer1.0 from vontaene.de which I have installed. But trying to uninstall that will remove half of my system including epiphany.
Minimal Kiosk Browser (kweb)
Slim, fast webkit browser with support for audio+video+playlists+youtube+pdf+download
Optional fullscreen kiosk mode and command interface for embedded applications
Includes omxplayerGUI, an X front end for omxplayer

User avatar
pluggy
Posts: 3635
Joined: Thu May 31, 2012 3:52 pm
Location: Barnoldswick, Lancashire,UK
Contact: Website

Re: New web browser - it's here!

Mon Sep 01, 2014 1:54 pm

Now I'm going to have to fire up a Pi with X still on it to test it......
Don't judge Linux by the Pi.......
I must not tread on too many sacred cows......

User avatar
liz
Raspberry Pi Foundation Employee & Forum Moderator
Raspberry Pi Foundation Employee & Forum Moderator
Posts: 5212
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2011 7:22 pm
Contact: Website

Re: New web browser - it's here!

Mon Sep 01, 2014 2:30 pm

My Pi's running full HD video from YouTube with no problems.
Director of Communications, Raspberry Pi

gkreidl
Posts: 6307
Joined: Thu Jan 26, 2012 1:07 pm
Location: Germany

Re: New web browser - it's here!

Mon Sep 01, 2014 2:48 pm

liz wrote:My Pi's running full HD video from YouTube with no problems.
I'm still working on removing gstreamer1.0 from vontaene.de and replacing them with the new RPi versions (older ones). I'll report back with the results when I'm through with it. This might also help other people who hade installed gstreamer1.0 previously (which was not available from the Raspbian repository formerly).
Minimal Kiosk Browser (kweb)
Slim, fast webkit browser with support for audio+video+playlists+youtube+pdf+download
Optional fullscreen kiosk mode and command interface for embedded applications
Includes omxplayerGUI, an X front end for omxplayer

gkreidl
Posts: 6307
Joined: Thu Jan 26, 2012 1:07 pm
Location: Germany

Re: New web browser - it's here!

Mon Sep 01, 2014 3:02 pm

OK, web video is now playing in epiphany and also in my experimental version of Minimal Kiosk Browser which I've published today (kweb3 from terminal, not the default version from the application menu).

The problems were caused by newer (not compatible) versions of gstreamer1 from vontaene.de. People who have them installed should do the following:

install synaptic (there may be other ways, but this is perhaps the easiest).

Select by source "vontaene.de". Right click on each installed package and from the menu select "enforce other version". Select the RPi version from the popup. Apply changes. Close synaptic,

Open /etc/apt/sources.list and remove vontaene.de.

Start synaptic again and search for gstreamer1. Add missing plug-ins (everything that is not yet installed) for installation. Apply.

I had to reboot, before it worked.
Minimal Kiosk Browser (kweb)
Slim, fast webkit browser with support for audio+video+playlists+youtube+pdf+download
Optional fullscreen kiosk mode and command interface for embedded applications
Includes omxplayerGUI, an X front end for omxplayer

simplesi
Posts: 2327
Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2012 6:19 pm
Location: Euxton, Lancashire, UK
Contact: Website

Re: New web browser - it's here!

Mon Sep 01, 2014 3:34 pm

Its extremly slow over X11VNC on my trusty old Rev1 256Mb Pi

This is just trying to load http://www.google.co.uk
getting 100% cpu load

Simon
Seeking help with Scratch and I/O stuff for Primary age children
http://cymplecy.wordpress.com/ @cymplecy on twitter

User avatar
liz
Raspberry Pi Foundation Employee & Forum Moderator
Raspberry Pi Foundation Employee & Forum Moderator
Posts: 5212
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2011 7:22 pm
Contact: Website

Re: New web browser - it's here!

Mon Sep 01, 2014 3:44 pm

Is it especially slow over VNC in comparison to using other things? (Like Midori?) Why are you trying to use a browser over VNC?
Director of Communications, Raspberry Pi

gkreidl
Posts: 6307
Joined: Thu Jan 26, 2012 1:07 pm
Location: Germany

Re: New web browser - it's here!

Mon Sep 01, 2014 3:46 pm

simplesi wrote:Its extremly slow over X11VNC on my trusty old Rev1 256Mb Pi

This is just trying to load http://www.google.co.uk
getting 100% cpu load

Simon
HW acceleration doesn't work across X11VNC.
Minimal Kiosk Browser (kweb)
Slim, fast webkit browser with support for audio+video+playlists+youtube+pdf+download
Optional fullscreen kiosk mode and command interface for embedded applications
Includes omxplayerGUI, an X front end for omxplayer

Joe Schmoe
Posts: 4277
Joined: Sun Jan 15, 2012 1:11 pm

Re: New web browser - it's here!

Mon Sep 01, 2014 4:10 pm

Could someone who has gotten this to work, please supply a known working YouTube URL?

Every one I tried generates error msg:
The Adobe Flash Player or an HTML5 supported browser is required for video playback.
I thought this *was* an "HTML5 supported browser".

Also, is a reboot necessary after installation before running this new browser?

I tried it before and after rebooting, with same results.

Although, it did seem a little peppier after the reboot, but I suppose that's just because everything is a little peppier after a reboot.

Just like in Windows…
And some folks need to stop being fanboys and see the forest behind the trees.

(One of the best lines I've seen on this board lately)

User avatar
redhawk
Posts: 3465
Joined: Sun Mar 04, 2012 2:13 pm
Location: ::1

Re: New web browser - it's here!

Mon Sep 01, 2014 4:13 pm

Could someone who has gotten this to work, please supply a known working YouTube URL?
Try http://www.youtube.com/html5 first and enable HTML5 support.

Richard S.

gkreidl
Posts: 6307
Joined: Thu Jan 26, 2012 1:07 pm
Location: Germany

Re: New web browser - it's here!

Mon Sep 01, 2014 4:21 pm

redhawk wrote:
Could someone who has gotten this to work, please supply a known working YouTube URL?
Try http://www.youtube.com/html5 first and enable HTML5 support.

Richard S.
Youtube will switch to HTML5 video by default if it recognizes that flash is not supported. This may take a few seconds.
Minimal Kiosk Browser (kweb)
Slim, fast webkit browser with support for audio+video+playlists+youtube+pdf+download
Optional fullscreen kiosk mode and command interface for embedded applications
Includes omxplayerGUI, an X front end for omxplayer

Joe Schmoe
Posts: 4277
Joined: Sun Jan 15, 2012 1:11 pm

Re: New web browser - it's here!

Mon Sep 01, 2014 4:22 pm

redhawk wrote:
Could someone who has gotten this to work, please supply a known working YouTube URL?
Try http://www.youtube.com/html5 first and enable HTML5 support.

Richard S.
Are you saying I need to click something to "enable" HTML5 support in epiphany? I couldn't find anything in the Preferences for that.

I tried the .../html URL - but didn't see anything to click on to say "Yes, I can do HTML5".
What exactly are you supposed to do on that page?

Anyway, no way a newuser is going to figure any of this out.
And some folks need to stop being fanboys and see the forest behind the trees.

(One of the best lines I've seen on this board lately)

User avatar
liz
Raspberry Pi Foundation Employee & Forum Moderator
Raspberry Pi Foundation Employee & Forum Moderator
Posts: 5212
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2011 7:22 pm
Contact: Website

Re: New web browser - it's here!

Mon Sep 01, 2014 4:23 pm

Not in the browser itself, but on YouTube. ;)
Director of Communications, Raspberry Pi

fruitoftheloom
Posts: 23083
Joined: Tue Mar 25, 2014 12:40 pm
Location: Delightful Dorset

Re: New web browser - it's here!

Mon Sep 01, 2014 4:27 pm

Rather than negativity think outside the box !
RPi 4B 4GB (SSD Boot)..
Asus ChromeBox 3 Celeron is my other computer...

User avatar
Douglas6
Posts: 4853
Joined: Sat Mar 16, 2013 5:34 am
Location: Chicago, IL

Re: New web browser - it's here!

Mon Sep 01, 2014 4:39 pm

gkreidl wrote:The problems were caused by newer (not compatible) versions of gstreamer1 from vontaene.de
Sorry, I'm dense when it comes to updates and branches and forks and whatnot. Does this mean I have to fallback from gstreamer 1.0 (from vontaene.de) to the old buggy 0.1, or does Raspian now include it's own 1.0?
Last edited by Douglas6 on Mon Sep 01, 2014 4:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
pluggy
Posts: 3635
Joined: Thu May 31, 2012 3:52 pm
Location: Barnoldswick, Lancashire,UK
Contact: Website

Re: New web browser - it's here!

Mon Sep 01, 2014 4:40 pm

A vast improvement (2 orders of magnitude) over Midori on my B+ overclocked to 1 Ghz on a clean Raspdian, with a real keyboard,mouse and screen. The Raspberry Pi blog used to be kind of embarrassing because the videos didn't work without a load of faffing on a Pi,but it does now, You tube works again without faffing.

Thats the good news.

Its still not a patch on browsing on my 2009 PC with Firefox on Ubuntu, Complex sites like http://bbc.co.uk are slow to load and render. (8 seconds on Midori, 4 Seconds on Epiphany, ~ 1 second on my PC). And just typing the url can be laggy. You just can't get past the Pi's slow CPU.

Its good for a Pi, is a reasonable appraisal.
Don't judge Linux by the Pi.......
I must not tread on too many sacred cows......

simplesi
Posts: 2327
Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2012 6:19 pm
Location: Euxton, Lancashire, UK
Contact: Website

Re: New web browser - it's here!

Mon Sep 01, 2014 4:47 pm

@liz
Yes - Midorii is slow but usable but I'd say the new one wasn't based on experience so far (30 mins use)

Its not a complaint :)

Just feedback for the engineers.

All my Pi are headless in my schools - we have no desktop monitors :)

I test everything over VNC


Simon
Last edited by simplesi on Mon Sep 01, 2014 5:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Seeking help with Scratch and I/O stuff for Primary age children
http://cymplecy.wordpress.com/ @cymplecy on twitter

jamesh
Raspberry Pi Engineer & Forum Moderator
Raspberry Pi Engineer & Forum Moderator
Posts: 26417
Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2011 7:41 pm

Re: New web browser - it's here!

Mon Sep 01, 2014 4:47 pm

@Pluggy.

]Blimey, you are definitely a pint half empty sort of person.

A two order of magnitude improvement in performance, but still not as good as a desktop that cost ten times as much?

New sig time....Don't judge the Pi by Linux (or the badly written, inefficient software that sometimes runs on it).

This really is a prime example of how inefficient a lot of software is. The Pi hasn't changed, yet with software optimisation, we have a massive improvement in performance. One does wonder, with the right effort in the right places, how fast a Pi really could be.
Principal Software Engineer at Raspberry Pi (Trading) Ltd.
Contrary to popular belief, humorous signatures are allowed.
I've been saying "Mucho" to my Spanish friend a lot more lately. It means a lot to him.

User avatar
liz
Raspberry Pi Foundation Employee & Forum Moderator
Raspberry Pi Foundation Employee & Forum Moderator
Posts: 5212
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2011 7:22 pm
Contact: Website

Re: New web browser - it's here!

Mon Sep 01, 2014 4:49 pm

>All my Pi are headless in my schools - we have no desktop monitors

That's kind of a shame - means all you've got is a terminal, and it's quite limiting from a learning perspective. Is it a budgetary problem?
Director of Communications, Raspberry Pi

jamesh
Raspberry Pi Engineer & Forum Moderator
Raspberry Pi Engineer & Forum Moderator
Posts: 26417
Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2011 7:41 pm

Re: New web browser - it's here!

Mon Sep 01, 2014 4:51 pm

simplesi wrote:@liz

Its not a complaint :)

Just feedback for the engineers.

All my Pi are headless in my schools - we have no desktop monitors :)

I test everything over VNC


Simon
You will never get decent performance over VNC, the overheads are simply too high, especially with video, which you would need to compress to send over the link and the thin client would need to decompress. And of course no HW acceleration.

So what do you use as clients if the Pi's themselves are headless? Can you not have browsers on them instead?
Principal Software Engineer at Raspberry Pi (Trading) Ltd.
Contrary to popular belief, humorous signatures are allowed.
I've been saying "Mucho" to my Spanish friend a lot more lately. It means a lot to him.

User avatar
DougieLawson
Posts: 38826
Joined: Sun Jun 16, 2013 11:19 pm
Location: A small cave in deepest darkest Basingstoke, UK
Contact: Website Twitter

Re: New web browser - it's here!

Mon Sep 01, 2014 4:56 pm

jamesh wrote: A two order of magnitude improvement in performance, but still not as good as a desktop that cost ten times as much?
It's a vast difference between 100% unusable (Midori, Iceweasel) and usable (Epiphany). At least now it's not a case of set a web page loading, get a cup of tea, & another tea (think about making a pot) and it may have loaded. By the time Midori has responded I've forgotten what I was aiming for or I'd need a comfort break from all the tea in my bladder.
Note: Any requirement to use a crystal ball or mind reading will result in me ignoring your question.

Criticising any questions is banned on this forum.

Any DMs sent on Twitter will be answered next month.
All non-medical doctors are on my foes list.

User avatar
pluggy
Posts: 3635
Joined: Thu May 31, 2012 3:52 pm
Location: Barnoldswick, Lancashire,UK
Contact: Website

Re: New web browser - it's here!

Mon Sep 01, 2014 4:58 pm

jamesh wrote:@Pluggy.

]Blimey, you are definitely a pint half empty sort of person.

A two order of magnitude improvement in performance, but still not as good as a desktop that cost ten times as much?

New sig time....Don't judge the Pi by Linux (or the badly written, inefficient software that sometimes runs on it).

This really is a prime example of how inefficient a lot of software is. The Pi hasn't changed, yet with software optimisation, we have a massive improvement in performance. One does wonder, with the right effort in the right places, how fast a Pi really could be.
You know me, James. I always was a half empty glass kind of person. My PC didn't cost 10 times as much as my Pi, I paid 30 quid for it (second hand) and then maybe a further £100 making what it is now. You can't really use inefficient coding as an excuse, you can hardly hold up Ubuntu 14.04 and Firefox 31.0 as examples of tight coding. The Pi's CPU is too slow for use as an effective desktop replacement.

It has the PC beat hands down as an always on low power webserver for my home monitoring system. Horses for courses........
Don't judge Linux by the Pi.......
I must not tread on too many sacred cows......

Return to “General discussion”