wallacebiy
Posts: 59
Joined: Wed May 16, 2012 2:00 pm

Re: Brewery

Tue Jun 12, 2012 10:57 am

iwerebeer wrote:
Threlkeld wrote:It's surely not how you do it at this stage, it's what you need to do?

What needs to be measured and recorded, what needs to be controlled? Systems analysis first, decisions on hardware and software very much later.

And yes, how many gallons of aie, and what sort? IPA, winter warmer, mild - all good systems analysis questions I'd say.
I started to write this, and realized how complex the whole thing is going to be... I will get some documentation on what exactly would be needed, where and why, maybe with a drawing? ASAP. There are quite a few temperature sensors and switches, with a constant oversight on fermenters required.

Complex , but very acheivable . More complex if you want to fully automate than if you want to actually be around for the brew

Sensor in The HLT . Switch for the element ( set temp and Hold temp )
( If you are going to automate the mash in and the sparge you'll be adding a controlled valve , and possible a volume meter )

Sensor in the mash tun , switch for the element , ( Set temp , time at temp , hold and raise to next temp. )
( If you are going to automate the run to the Boiler , as above you'll want a control valve and a volume meter )

Sensor in the kettle , switch for the heat . ( switch on , Read Boil start , time boil )
If you want to automate hop additions that's another thing to add in .

Cooling to pitching temp ( are you going to do this in the Kettle ? if so the same sensor as was used in the boil )

Sensor in the Fermentor , switch for refrigeration , switch for heat ( set temp range and rules for when to kick either heating or cooling in )


As long as you know how to brew , and what you want to do on your system , the pieces you can automate will stand out to you .


I think the physical operation will be straight forward , but the front end UI will be where you can make it shine .
( it'd be nice to start the HLT an hour before work by logging in over the web , and then after you've mashed in , go off for breakfast and get an email at the start of the boil ...)

User avatar
AndrewS
Posts: 3625
Joined: Sun Apr 22, 2012 4:50 pm
Location: Cambridge, UK
Contact: Website

Re: Brewery

Tue Jun 12, 2012 12:21 pm

It's starting to remind me of those automated breadmakers you get where you just pour in a load of ingredients at the start, switch it on, and let it do everything else for you :)
RaspberryToast?

wallacebiy
Posts: 59
Joined: Wed May 16, 2012 2:00 pm

Re: Brewery

Tue Jun 12, 2012 12:23 pm

AndrewS wrote:It's starting to remind me of those automated breadmakers you get where you just pour in a load of ingredients at the start, switch it on, and let it do everything else for you :)
RaspberryToast?

Shhhh , you'll let the cat out of the bag ...........




in reality , the breadmaker is the next closest cousin to a Brewery ....

User avatar
RichardUK
Posts: 235
Joined: Fri Jun 01, 2012 5:12 pm

Re: Brewery

Tue Jun 12, 2012 7:35 pm

Check out Whzan
It allows remote monitoring and remote control. Has a Json interface as well as .NET. The gateways were written in c# and we have run these on the RPi using mono.

iwerebeer
Posts: 10
Joined: Mon Jun 11, 2012 6:36 pm
Location: London
Contact: Website

Re: Brewery

Wed Jun 13, 2012 7:55 am

RichardUK wrote:Check out Whzan
It allows remote monitoring and remote control. Has a Json interface as well as .NET. The gateways were written in c# and we have run these on the RPi using mono.
Wow, this looks pretty cool. So basically I would use some sort of computer (ie raspberry pi) to monitor, but it would in fact not be the controller?

PaulBuxton
Posts: 57
Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2012 11:38 am

Re: Brewery

Wed Jun 13, 2012 10:29 am

Check out my Pi Sous Vide project
http://code.google.com/p/pi-sous-vide/

I am using a USB controlled solid state relay. (Not done the wiring up yet!).
Controlling the relay is a piece of cake (instructions on my google project page).

At the moment I am looking at how to get data from my thermometer.

I have gone for a USB based approach as it makes it nice and modular, and can also develop and test on a standard Linux PC.

Paul.

SteveOll
Posts: 9
Joined: Tue Jun 05, 2012 6:48 pm

Re: Brewery

Thu Jun 14, 2012 10:29 pm

I am a Mechatronics student in Ireland and I use a LabJack device for automation projects. I frequent the Labjack Forums as I saw a post that you might find interesting as you can use the Labjack with a Raspberry Pi and control it with Python - I have proven that myself - see my post on their site.

http://labjack.com/blog/labjack-and-new-raspberry-pi - Their blog refering to my forum post
http://forums.labjack.com/index.php?showtopic=5802 - My post on their forum showing one of my projects.

http://www.easydaq.biz/PagesUSB/USBDAQPODMx.htm - Labjack with 8 relay control card
http://www.easydaq.biz/PagesRelay/Relay ... sFRAME.htm - Relay cards that can be driven by Arduino or LabJack

http://labjack.com/blog/lj-turns-heat-home-brewing - Someone using a Labjack to control homebrewing process.
http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/labjack ... re-134978/ - Original post on home brewing forum
http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f170/new-ec ... ds-239558/ - More of the same with photos of setup

wallacebiy
Posts: 59
Joined: Wed May 16, 2012 2:00 pm

Re: Brewery

Thu Jun 14, 2012 11:19 pm

not being funny now steve , but the cheapest Labjack on that link is at least twice the price of the Pi . before adding sensors and switches .

Personally , I'd I'd be hoping that with a little elbow grease , research and perserverance a solution can be made that comes in about that price including the Pi ( and a case )

nigle
Posts: 4
Joined: Wed Nov 23, 2011 12:39 pm

Re: Brewery

Fri Jun 15, 2012 1:56 pm

Sounds like a fun project, I have occasionally thought about this sort of thing but coming from the other direction - I am an electronics engineer, not a brewer.

I can definitely help out with the high power control side of things, I have a lot of experience of this. My current work project is a 1 megawatt motor controller!

User avatar
piglet
Posts: 911
Joined: Sat Aug 27, 2011 1:16 pm

Re: Brewery

Fri Jun 15, 2012 2:09 pm

liz wrote:
Mjiig wrote:See also: baby monitors. (I can't believe how much those things cost.)
See also: babies. (I can't believe how much those things cost.)

And I don't mean in the "Madonna" way :P

SteveOll
Posts: 9
Joined: Tue Jun 05, 2012 6:48 pm

Re: Brewery

Fri Jun 15, 2012 3:43 pm

wallacebiy wrote:not being funny now steve , but the cheapest Labjack on that link is at least twice the price of the Pi . before adding sensors and switches .

Personally , I'd I'd be hoping that with a little elbow grease , research and perserverance a solution can be made that comes in about that price including the Pi ( and a case )
Hey no problem, just giving you an alternative to look at where you can still use your Pi and Python. Maybe you should still check out the homebrew forums as you may pick up a few ideas for your project.

I use the LabJack as I find it very versatile and the online support and documentation is second to none.

Zaf
Posts: 2
Joined: Mon Jun 25, 2012 12:29 am

Re: Brewery

Mon Jun 25, 2012 12:52 am

I've just successfully designed and implemented an arduino based brew controller for a 4 barrel microbrewery.

All the information is displayed on a 4x20 LCD and controls 5 relays, 4 temp sensors and 1 sonar sensor for the underback.

I'm looking at complementing this setup with a RPi as a webserver...
If you need to know anything just ask!

kaplanfx
Posts: 9
Joined: Fri Jun 15, 2012 10:56 pm

Re: Brewery

Tue Jun 26, 2012 6:29 pm

I'm all for using the Raspberry Pi in as many cool ways as possible, but in this instance it may not make sense to re-invent the wheel. Have you looked into the arduino powered Brewtroller: http://www.oscsys.com/projects/brewtroller/ it has already gone through several generations and been battle tested. It can even be controlled through a web browser using an ethernet module.

Then again, there's no good reason NOT to build such a system using the Raspberry Pi, it just means that hardware / software will need to be written all over again, and the GPIO I think is actually more limited than what you get in a stock Brewtroller.

-kap

Zaf
Posts: 2
Joined: Mon Jun 25, 2012 12:29 am

Re: Brewery

Sun Jul 01, 2012 2:12 am

"It can even be controlled through a web browser using an ethernet module."

You can actually use the RPi as the Ethernet module much cheaper than buying the Ethernet Shield ;)

twenty7
Posts: 4
Joined: Sun Jul 01, 2012 7:11 pm

Re: Brewery

Sun Jul 01, 2012 7:57 pm

On a considerably smaller scale, I currently have my Pi connected to an i2c temperature sensor and monitoring my homebrew. The brew is from a cheap kit, no mashing and all that complicated stuff, and the Pi just logs the temperature and serves out a webpage with a temperature-time graph. I had planned to have the Pi turn on and off a portable heater, but it turns out the temperature is too high (25 C) and I need to find a cheap cooling appliance not a heater...any suggestions?

Photo attached.
Attachments
pi_brew.jpg
pi_brew.jpg (23.82 KiB) Viewed 6395 times

anthonyUK
Posts: 30
Joined: Tue May 29, 2012 8:18 am

Re: Brewery

Mon Jul 02, 2012 9:41 am

PaulBuxton wrote:Check out my Pi Sous Vide project
http://code.google.com/p/pi-sous-vide/

I am using a USB controlled solid state relay. (Not done the wiring up yet!).
Controlling the relay is a piece of cake (instructions on my google project page).

At the moment I am looking at how to get data from my thermometer.

I have gone for a USB based approach as it makes it nice and modular, and can also develop and test on a standard Linux PC.

Paul.
Hi Paul,
Not directly related to this brewery project but there is plenty of info available regarding using the Temper/Temper2 USB sensors e.g. https://grepular.com/Using_Linux_to_Mon ... nd_Cheaply

They implement a standard thermistor but take away the AD conversion so you can read the temp out using Python for example.
They are really well priced on fleabay.

anthonyUK
Posts: 30
Joined: Tue May 29, 2012 8:18 am

Re: Brewery

Mon Jul 02, 2012 9:46 am

Double post
Last edited by anthonyUK on Mon Jul 02, 2012 9:54 am, edited 1 time in total.

anthonyUK
Posts: 30
Joined: Tue May 29, 2012 8:18 am

Re: Brewery

Mon Jul 02, 2012 9:49 am

twenty7 wrote:On a considerably smaller scale, I currently have my Pi connected to an i2c temperature sensor and monitoring my homebrew. The brew is from a cheap kit, no mashing and all that complicated stuff, and the Pi just logs the temperature and serves out a webpage with a temperature-time graph. I had planned to have the Pi turn on and off a portable heater, but it turns out the temperature is too high (25 C) and I need to find a cheap cooling appliance not a heater...any suggestions?

Photo attached.
Try a small fridge. This is what a lot of us homebrewers use with a dedicated controller that the Pi could replace.
The Controller I use is an STC-1000 from China.
I'm looking at something similar so would be interested in what sensor you used.
At this stage I just want to measure the temperature of my fermentation fridge and wort and graph the output.

My controller
5966586039_8168b80cbc.jpg
5966586039_8168b80cbc.jpg (23.52 KiB) Viewed 6375 times

twenty7
Posts: 4
Joined: Sun Jul 01, 2012 7:11 pm

Re: Brewery

Tue Jul 03, 2012 1:54 pm

I am using a TC74A0 (http://ww1.microchip.com/downloads/en/d ... 21462c.pdf). The one I have works on 5V i2c, so I'm using a couple of BSS138 mosfets to shift the i2c level from 3v3 to 5v. I also have a DS1307 RTC chip hooked up.

I would not really recommend the TC74, it only has a an accuracy of +/- 2 C and only gives the nearest whole degree. There are loads of better i2c temperature sensors, problem is most come in surface mount only and I didn't want to solder the surface mount part as I don't have the facilities to make PCBs. I soldered the surface mount BSS138 mosfets direct to the tracks on veroboard...

User avatar
el_toro
Posts: 12
Joined: Sat Jun 30, 2012 10:26 pm

Re: Brewery

Wed Jul 04, 2012 1:00 pm

wallacebiy wrote:not being funny now steve , but the cheapest Labjack on that link is at least twice the price of the Pi . before adding sensors and switches .

Personally , I'd I'd be hoping that with a little elbow grease , research and perserverance a solution can be made that comes in about that price including the Pi ( and a case )
There's another thread for a cheap AD board (Vellemans K8055) available from Maplins ( viewtopic.php?f=37&t=8598 )

p.s. see my other thread for "mine came with a case" viewtopic.php?f=40&t=9859 :-)

barrybarryk
Posts: 20
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2012 12:11 pm

Re: Brewery

Thu Jul 19, 2012 12:31 pm

I'm actually thinking of starting something similar at the minute but for the pub/bar end. Using a Pi with a micro controller and a few sensors to monitor real ale casks to try and minimise ale wastage.

I'm looking at measuring the temperature of the cellar and the temperature of the beer in the cask along with the weight of the cask to estimate volume and using spikes in the 'weight' registered to keep track of when casks are tapped (and hopefully prompt for it if needed) etc to provide advance warning of when a cask will be reaching the end of its life or when another cask needs to be prepared (which can be hard to keep track of if you don't have the same staff members on every day).

It'll report back to a simple webserver running on the pi so staff can check on the ales without playing 20 questions with the staff from the previous shift or running down to the cellar and hopefully might be able to take some of the guesswork out of maintaining real ale lines. It's just a hobby project at the minute with no real view to rolling it out (if it works!) to pubs, but I reckon a great project to get my pi started and an excellent excuse to keep a cask or two in the house :)

anthonyUK
Posts: 30
Joined: Tue May 29, 2012 8:18 am

Re: Brewery

Mon Jul 23, 2012 7:12 am

I have a rough build working with a Temper2 USB dual sensor device.
The external sensor appears to be slightly erratic compared to the internal.
Perhaps a small fan to circulate the air would help.
An STC-1000 is controlling the set point and is currently at 15°c.

Once it looks stable enough I'll put another batch on to ferment.

Image

samuelsons_jon
Posts: 2
Joined: Wed Aug 08, 2012 7:32 am

Re: Brewery

Wed Aug 08, 2012 7:43 am

I'd be really interested to see how this goes too.

I run a small business that makes soft drinks - lemonades of various flavours basically - in Oxfordshire. We've just rented our first industrial unit and there's a lot of similarities with the brew control system and what I'd like to do which is control a pasteuriser or three.

Effectively it's a gargantuan sous vide. Imagine a 10ft by 4 ft big tank, split in to three equal sized and separate tanks. Each one with it's own heating elements (2 x 3.5kW). Each one needs it's own individual temperature controller and timer. Heat to 72 C, alarm when at temperature, then hold at temperature for X minutes, then alarm to state that heating is complete. That's it basically, but we've been quoted between 2&3 thousand pounds for what we've been doing up til now with what amounts to a kitchen timer, a 10 pound temp probe that with alarm and some very careful adjustments of the inbuilt thermostats that are inbuilt in to the heating elements. That's just crazy money!

I'll be honest, I haven't done any coding (although I'm a linux user) in well over a decade, and what I did do I've entirely forgotten. The pi seems ideal to control these kind of things and costs buttons.

Any help would be invaluable!

texy
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator
Posts: 5160
Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2012 10:59 am
Location: Berkshire, England

Re: Brewery

Wed Aug 08, 2012 9:04 am

Is that for just the electronics/heating? I,d imagine the tank itself is not cheap.

Texy
Various male/female 40- and 26-way GPIO header for sale here ( IDEAL FOR YOUR PiZero ):
https://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=93&t=147682#p971555

samuelsons_jon
Posts: 2
Joined: Wed Aug 08, 2012 7:32 am

Re: Brewery

Wed Aug 08, 2012 9:42 am

texy wrote:Is that for just the electronics/heating? I,d imagine the tank itself is not cheap.

Texy
Hi Texy,

You're right, it's not - but we're manufacturing it ourselves out of fibreglass which makes it considerably cheaper. That price of 2-3k was just for the heating controls. Completely nuts.

I could show you a picture of our current tank called Bertha the Sweatbox, she's a 100+ year old antique water tank that we've repurposed. But you'd laugh.

A commercial pasteuriser from someone like Vigo costs about 4.5k, and we'd need about 8 or 9 of them. Crazyness. We could go for a tunnel pasteuriser, but I don't have 70-150k to hand right now. Maybe I'll look down the back of the sofa... ;-)

Jonathan

Return to “General discussion”