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blachanc
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Location: Quebec,canada(french)

Re: Locking issues/Refund.

Sat Apr 12, 2014 3:46 am

sorry to say this,

but people are getting too emotionnaly involved on this thread:

OP is unhappy with the product, and he has the right to feel that way.
OP being right or not is irrelevant, he is unhappy, period.

I am dumb enough to offer to buy deffective items?
I hope not, but maybe OP got very unlucky, end ended up buying flaky PI (bad yield lot),
or maybe he is using them in a specific way, that outlines limitations.

If the OP is right, then I will have a lot of fun echanging debuging info, and maybe return some of the PI
to the foundation, for deeper analysis (if they ask for it).
all of this for less than the cost of a dinner in a less-than-fancy resto...

If the op is wrong, then I will challenge my kids school to jump into the PI pool, by providing 7 PI for free...
(carrie-anne blog regarding Pi challenges in school is a must read)

worst thing that could happen to theses 7 PI, is to catch dust on a shelf being unused/not debuged

my offer to OP stands, and I will gladly share info with him regarding my experience with the 7 PI.

Ben

as I have read somewhere:

dear forum, please play nice.
Autism/Asperger syndrome: what is your score on this quiz?
http://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=62&t=70191

jamesh
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Re: Locking issues/Refund.

Sat Apr 12, 2014 10:09 am

saltydog wrote:I can add my experience:
jamesh wrote: By disconnect do you mean remove a wireless dongle?
Connecting/wiggling (not removing) a wireless dongle cause a crash (reboot).
Dongles used are standard and mini Digitech brand.
jamesh wrote: I'm guessing its spiking the power somehow and causing a crash. Have you tied a different wireless dongle?
Several of the same brand. Only two different models of the same brand. A blue tooth dongle of the same brand does not cause a crash.
jamesh wrote: Does the device work fine until you disconnect?
The devices all work fine.
jamesh wrote: Does the dongle work in a desktop when you do the same thing?
The crashing problem does NOT occur in either desktop or laptop. It also does NOT occur when using the wireless dongle in a usb hub (not powered) that is connected to the pi
jamesh wrote:Why does your use case require disconnection of the dongle whilst in use?
There are plenty of occurrences when there is a need to remove the dongle. If you don't have a hub and only two usb ports.
The pi's are also connected to robots where kids are constantly picking them up a moving the dongle enough to cause a reboot.
Thanks SaltyDog, nice to get a comprehensive bug report.

Just a bit of additional information - did all the dongle you tried have the same wireless chipset? It difficult to tell whether this is a hardware issue or a software issue, my inclination is power supply/HW since they work in a powered hub. Odd that wiggling them causes problems, that sort of indicates a connection problem in the USB connector.

How recent is your Pi BTW?
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mikerr
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Re: Locking issues/Refund.

Sat Apr 12, 2014 10:24 am

If the wifi dongle is a loose fit,
wiggling it will cause a disconnect/reconnect

That will reboot the pi (unless it's a rev1 poly fused usb)
-a hub will stop the inrush of current, so you won't see the problem then.
Last edited by mikerr on Sat Apr 12, 2014 10:24 am, edited 1 time in total.
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joan
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Re: Locking issues/Refund.

Sat Apr 12, 2014 10:24 am

jamesh wrote: ...
Thanks SaltyDog, nice to get a comprehensive bug report.

Just a bit of additional information - did all the dongle you tried have the same wireless chipset? It difficult to tell whether this is a hardware issue or a software issue, my inclination is power supply/HW since they work in a powered hub. Odd that wiggling them causes problems, that sort of indicates a connection problem in the USB connector.

How recent is your Pi BTW?
I get reboots on a 256MB old Pi when I remove a wifi dongle from a Pi USB slot (that's why I don't remove it from the slot any more).

Slightly more interesting is that I now have it on a passive USB extender from a Pi USB and I don't get reboots if I remove the wifi dongle from the extender.

saltydog
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Re: Locking issues/Refund.

Sat Apr 12, 2014 11:47 am

jamesh wrote:did all the dongle you tried have the same wireless chipset?
The two wifi dongles are:
http://www.jaycar.com.au/productView.asp?ID=YN8309
http://www.jaycar.com.au/productView.asp?ID=YN8307
Small dongle causes reboot when inserting and wiggling. I have four, all do the same.
Large dongle causes reboot only when inserting. Six in total, all do the same
Have just tried a usb sound card (Creative Sound Blaster). Cause reboot when inserting.
No other usb device causes any problem. Flash drive, hub, bluetooth, card reader, mouse, keyboard.
jamesh wrote:How recent is your Pi BTW?
One made in china, 5 early UK, another 5 around 6 months old.

The small dongles and pi were attached to some biped robots that kids were using to learn python. Cause they were controlled via remote desktop, reboots were a bit of a pain. other then that wasn't much to worry about.

Chris

mikerr
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Re: Locking issues/Refund.

Sat Apr 12, 2014 12:03 pm

It's generally the higher powered USB devices that cause a reboot on Pi when plugged in due to current inrush
( i.e. wifi dongles) - but not when a hub (even unpowered) is used in between.

It's been this way since the removal of usb polyfuses:
http://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/viewt ... 63&t=23205

But if your USB devices are disconnecting when you wiggle them - that's a (design) fault of the devices not the Pi IMO.
Last edited by mikerr on Sat Apr 12, 2014 12:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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jdb
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Re: Locking issues/Refund.

Sat Apr 12, 2014 12:08 pm

When you say "small dongle" - is it one of the types that are not much bigger than the USB connector shell?

Many of these implement the connector pads on the PCB itself. It's not unknown for these to be mechanically incompatible with USB ports - including issues like pushing up the pins inside the host connector because they don't have a mating chamfer on the front edge
Rockets are loud.
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saltydog
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Re: Locking issues/Refund.

Sat Apr 12, 2014 12:48 pm

mikerr wrote:It's been this way since the removal of usb polyfuses:
http://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/viewt ... 63&t=23205.
Thanks for the link. :D
mikerr wrote:But if your USB devices are disconnecting when you wiggle them - that's a (design) fault of the devices not the Pi IMO.
Yeah I tend to agree. But it's hard to argue the "fault" to a supplier when it 's only happening in one device.
jdb wrote:When you say "small dongle" - is it one of the types that are not much bigger than the USB connector shell?
Yeah, that's them.

Chris

rmwebs
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Re: Locking issues/Refund.

Sat Apr 12, 2014 12:50 pm

For what it's worth I've had the power problem as well. Regardless of the power supply, on many occasions if I unplug either a TP-Link TL-WN722N or either of my Edimax EW-7811UN dongles it'll power cycle the pi. It happens way too often. I did once also have it happen with an external hard drive, however I don't really tend to plug anything into the pi anymore as it's simply not got the ability to handle too many USB devices it seems.

This isn't anything new though. If you were a member of these forums in the first few weeks after they removed the polyfuse from the board design, there were multiple threads about it. The solution: Don't unplug stuff. Seriously - that's the only solution.

I have had better results with a decent powered USB hub (when I say decent, I don't mean any of the ones advertised on the rPi accessories pages of Farnell and RS as those are terribly underpowered. Get yourself a decent powered hub (a decent one will set you back ~£25), a decent power supply and try it then. The downside is that by the time you've actually found a working combination you've spent the best part of £80.

It does suck but there's little that you can do to work around it short of throwing lots of cash at expensive power supplies and hubs.

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Richard-TX
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Re: Locking issues/Refund.

Sat Apr 12, 2014 1:45 pm

ioudas wrote:Hi All,

I have several pi's that all have several major issues. Freezing, usb key stroke repeating, hdmi dvi resetting, transfers to the pi dropping over wired/wireless ssh drop outs. All products have been directly purchased on adafruit. I would like to know about the warranty/refund policy for pi's. I have tried multiple different power blocks, powered hubs etc.

When i remove wifi devices the pi will freeze and lock up permanently until a forced power reset is started, etc.

I imagine there is no refund policy directly from the pi foundation for these boards?
All of these issues really sound like OS issues. I would start with a fresh load of the 09-25-2013 Raspbian image and try again.
Richard
Doing Unix since 1985.
The 9-25-2013 image of Wheezy can be found at:
http://downloads.raspberrypi.org/raspbian/images/raspbian-2013-09-27/2013-09-25-wheezy-raspbian.zip

Joe Schmoe
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Re: Locking issues/Refund.

Sat Apr 12, 2014 1:46 pm

The solution: Don't unplug stuff. Seriously - that's the only solution.
IME, it is not the unplugging that is a problem. It is the re-plugging.

But, and this is the salient point, if the connection is loose, you could easily be re-plugging it (momentarily) as part of yanking it out.

So, it nets out to the same.
And some folks need to stop being fanboys and see the forest behind the trees.

(One of the best lines I've seen on this board lately)

ioudas
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Re: Locking issues/Refund.

Mon Apr 14, 2014 7:05 pm

Jessie wrote: Now if you want to get these working cut the crap and provide enough information for people to help you or close your pie hole.

Ah,

Quite the professionalism displayed here.
Actually you may consider the fact you are completely wrong.

I will no longer respond to your misrepresented fallacies and abuse.

Best of luck.

rmwebs
Posts: 197
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Re: Locking issues/Refund.

Mon Apr 14, 2014 9:22 pm

Jessie wrote:Now if you want to get these working cut the crap and provide enough information for people to help you or close your pie hole.
Regardless of weather or not the OP deserved that, or if he was trolling - nobody, and I mean nobody deserves to have moderating power with such an appalling attitude towards the community. There's simply no need for that. The Pi forums are already a bloody hostile place as it is without the mods making it worse.

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joan
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Re: Locking issues/Refund.

Mon Apr 14, 2014 9:33 pm

rmwebs wrote: ...
The Pi forums are already a ... hostile place as it is without the mods making it worse.
I find the forums remarkably well natured. I suppose it's what you are used to.

jamesh
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Re: Locking issues/Refund.

Tue Apr 15, 2014 9:30 am

rmwebs wrote:
Jessie wrote:Now if you want to get these working cut the crap and provide enough information for people to help you or close your pie hole.
Regardless of weather or not the OP deserved that, or if he was trolling - nobody, and I mean nobody deserves to have moderating power with such an appalling attitude towards the community. There's simply no need for that. The Pi forums are already a bloody hostile place as it is without the mods making it worse.
I don't normally post on locked threads, but will do in this case. I agree that the response quoted in over the top, and I will have a word, but would be interested in why you think the forums here are a hostile place. The mods do try and keep things as polite and hostility free as possible - and compared with many other forums this has been fairly successful - we do need to be child friendly. This will of course vary by thread, some topics are by their nature, rather difficult, this one being a case in point. Here the OP has a problem, has made various claims, but hasn't given enough information to verify or to fix the problem despite being asked to provide that information. This is very frustrating, especially to those who spend a lot of time helping out here, who really do want to help.

But hat said, please, if you do see posts you think are out of order, flag them up and a moderator will take a look. We cannot see every post as it arrives, so rely on post reports to flag up issues. If the flagging up fails, and you still think something is amiss, PM a moderator.
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