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algorithm
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Re: New Website

Sat Apr 05, 2014 7:40 pm

rmwebs wrote:Lets talk about the big scrolling panel on the homepage. […] At very least the scrolling 'latest blog posts' could be made a lot smaller, or removed entirely - I assume if this is kept, that every single blog entry from now on will require an image for it to appear on the homepage.
Oh yes. I loathe sliders. Much too big for their function. And TWO?!
rmwebs wrote:I'm going to be a bit blunt here. In my personal opinion, I dislike the use of the monospace style fonts.
I think you mean serif, not monospace.
+1 Better.

rmwebs
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Re: New Website

Sat Apr 05, 2014 10:22 pm

algorithm wrote:I think you mean serif, not monospace..
Yeah, technically it's a serif font but visually it's a lot more like a monospaced font. The extra line and letter spacing used on the new layout make it look even more so. Fonts like that were never, ever designed for large text blocks.

If you look at the image on the wikipedia page, you'll see what I mean about it being more monospace than serif, visually if not technically. :)

ripping
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Re: New Website

Sun Apr 06, 2014 5:08 am

Apologies to the website developers but I can only agree with 99% of the points that are raised by the detractors of the design and functionality.
Its is virtually impossible to use on a mobile. Yes, yes I've read that the 'mobile version' is coming. Well the site should never have gone live until all aspects were complete and tested.
The landing page is dominated by the sliding images which are conveying information that can be easily incorporated in a newsfeed link, or a 'what's new' section.
The landing page contains way to much blank space. The page could be compressed by at least 2/3'rds and still be usable and not cramped.
It looks like Windows 8 ? Now there is some irony.
Take a hint and revert to the old site, it worked, it was functional, and I'm sure quite easy to add on new sections. Change for the sake of change is a waste of your time and resources.
This is my feedback and opinion.
Thank you for your time.

shuckle
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Re: New Website

Sun Apr 06, 2014 6:31 am

ripping wrote: Take a hint and revert to the old site, it worked, it was functional, and I'm sure quite easy to add on new sections. Change for the sake of change is a waste of your time and resources.
+1 agree.

rmwebs
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Re: New Website

Sun Apr 06, 2014 9:56 am

ripping wrote:Take a hint and revert to the old site, it worked, it was functional, and I'm sure quite easy to add on new sections. Change for the sake of change is a waste of your time and resources.
This is my feedback and opinion.
I'm not so sure going back to the old site would be the right move now. I mean, personally I found the old site a lot more visually appealing - the nice clean layout, the subtle hints of grey and blue, etc - it worked really well.

The new layout could work as well - it just needs a lot of work. Removing the over the top effects, fixing the font and letter spacing (trying to read an article with the current letter spacing is a bit of a pain), and basically eliminating the 2006-esq colour scheme and getting a bit more with the times.

That does kind of sound like a complete redesign, but it's really not. Most of the site's problems could be fixed in a couple of hours. A few CSS tweaks can go a hell of a long way. It's a shame the site/theme didn't make it onto github or something as I know that there'd be a lot of us helping out to get it right.

As an example, what I did in the mockup I provided took me approx 15 minutes and was all done using chrome's inspector. It can be done, and pretty easily too. I even had bootstrap's grid being used, so the mockup was completely responsive except for the navbar.

Edit: Changing the colours can have a big impact - another mockup:
Image

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mahjongg
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Re: New Website

Sun Apr 06, 2014 1:03 pm

the colors (and other stylistic elements) are probably chosen for the real audience of the raspberry pi site, that is school children. not for older hacker/maker type of users.

i'm guessing a lot of resistance agains the new style stems from people disagreeing with this choice, who want to see a more "professional" less "childish" site.

rmwebs
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Re: New Website

Sun Apr 06, 2014 6:03 pm

mahjongg wrote:i'm guessing a lot of resistance agains the new style stems from people disagreeing with this choice, who want to see a more "professional" less "childish" site.
My personal resistance (although I probably wouldn't call it that) is based more on general aesthetics and more importantly, usability. Unfortunately with the site as it is right now, a UX consultant would be screaming.

Aiming a site at a young audience does not mean making it impossible to see a consistent colour pallet.

fruitoftheloom
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Re: New Website

Sun Apr 06, 2014 6:18 pm

mahjongg wrote:the colors (and other stylistic elements) are probably chosen for the real audience of the raspberry pi site, that is school children. not for older hacker/maker type of users.

i'm guessing a lot of resistance agains the new style stems from people disagreeing with this choice, who want to see a more "professional" less "childish" site.
If that is the aim, then will accept the situation, reluctantly......
Retired disgracefully.....
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GTR2Fan
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Re: New Website

Sun Apr 06, 2014 6:26 pm

mahjongg wrote:the colors (and other stylistic elements) are probably chosen for the real audience of the raspberry pi site, that is school children. not for older hacker/maker type of users.
I don't think there's any argument about who the site is aimed at from most people commenting.
i'm guessing a lot of resistance agains the new style stems from people disagreeing with this choice, who want to see a more "professional" less "childish" site.
Regardless of the stylistic choices regarding the website's design, resistance will inevitably come from anyone who tries accessing the site from a Pi running Midori, as it's simply not usable anymore unless you're running at a high-ish desktop resolution and a 'Turbo' overclock.
Pi2B Mini-PC/Media Centre: ARM=1GHz (+3), Core=500MHz, v3d=500MHz, h264=333MHz, RAM=DDR2-1200 (+6/+4/+4+schmoo). Sandisk Ultra HC-I 32GB microSD card on '50=100' OCed slot (42MB/s read) running Raspbian/KODI16, Seagate 3.5" 1.5TB HDD mass storage.

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DougieLawson
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Re: New Website

Sun Apr 06, 2014 6:35 pm

GTR2Fan wrote:Regardless of the stylistic choices regarding the website's design, resistance will inevitably come from anyone who tries accessing the site from a Pi running Midori, as it's simply not usable anymore unless you're running at a high-ish desktop resolution and a 'Turbo' overclock.
That's got to be an awful citation for Midori (which is a Truly Awful Thing™), but is probably the best benchmark for any RPi related site.
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andrum99
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Re: New Website

Sun Apr 06, 2014 7:24 pm

shuckle wrote:
ripping wrote: Take a hint and revert to the old site, it worked, it was functional, and I'm sure quite easy to add on new sections. Change for the sake of change is a waste of your time and resources.
+1 agree.
+1

jamesh
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Re: New Website

Sun Apr 06, 2014 8:07 pm

rmwebs wrote:
mahjongg wrote:i'm guessing a lot of resistance agains the new style stems from people disagreeing with this choice, who want to see a more "professional" less "childish" site.
My personal resistance (although I probably wouldn't call it that) is based more on general aesthetics and more importantly, usability. Unfortunately with the site as it is right now, a UX consultant would be screaming.

Aiming a site at a young audience does not mean making it impossible to see a consistent colour pallet.
I guess they can scream away. As a charitable organisation, with limited funds for things like this (otherwise, there wouldn't be any £1M fund for teaching/learning), consultants are not exactly on the shopping list. People should realise this is not multimillion $ company trying to entice customers with a hugely expensive website. It's a charity with better things to spend it's money on.

Anyway, they have a decent list of things to look at that should improve things over the next few days, so mobile, and improved performance should appear soon.
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rmwebs
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Re: New Website

Sun Apr 06, 2014 10:48 pm

jamesh wrote:I guess they can scream away. As a charitable organisation, with limited funds for things like this (otherwise, there wouldn't be any £1M fund for teaching/learning), consultants are not exactly on the shopping list. People should realise this is not multimillion $ company trying to entice customers with a hugely expensive website. It's a charity with better things to spend it's money on.
Please don't pull that card James - you and I both know very well that several of us here have offered help if the site was open sourced. Money doesn't even come into it. Too many 'charity' projects try pulling this card when something goes wrong - blaming it on funds when theres an army of volunteers screaming to help.

Napier
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Re: New Website

Mon Apr 07, 2014 7:50 am

jamesh wrote:I guess they can scream away. As a charitable organisation, with limited funds for things like this (otherwise, there wouldn't be any £1M fund for teaching/learning), consultants are not exactly on the shopping list. People should realise this is not multimillion $ company trying to entice customers with a hugely expensive website. It's a charity with better things to spend it's money on.
Completely agree with this point - which makes me wonder why people (person) was / were having to work on this 'Until stupid O'clock' for several days. The foundation is a charity, doesn't have any penalty contracts in place for a missed deadline etc. I understand that that the Gandalf defence of a 'Website arrives when it is ready' can't apply either as it can't be drawn out for ever, but surely a few days or even weeks later wouldn't have made much of a difference, would have allowed for some testing on multiple devices (I presuming this wasn't done judging by the comments here) and would have allowed a good sleep pattern for the person that put this together. I don't think it is fair to argue that the Foundation is a charity, but then drive someone like they work for an uncaring Multinational (tm). Like I say, sure there has to be deadlines, but as Douglas Adams once said, 'I love deadlines, the sound they make as they go whizzing past'

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Re: New Website

Mon Apr 07, 2014 8:56 am

rmwebs wrote:
jamesh wrote:I guess they can scream away. As a charitable organisation, with limited funds for things like this (otherwise, there wouldn't be any £1M fund for teaching/learning), consultants are not exactly on the shopping list. People should realise this is not multimillion $ company trying to entice customers with a hugely expensive website. It's a charity with better things to spend it's money on.
Please don't pull that card James - you and I both know very well that several of us here have offered help if the site was open sourced. Money doesn't even come into it. Too many 'charity' projects try pulling this card when something goes wrong - blaming it on funds when theres an army of volunteers screaming to help.
After the event....everyone volunteers. After the event. And people need to realise that the organisation of a 'crowd sourced' project is a complete nightmare - just look at Linux and Linus' recent problems. Would you, as a volunteer, be willing to spend 5 hours a day in the Raspberry Pi office? No? How many hours *would* you be willing to put in on the project? 100? 200?

I'm a volunteer on the camera apps. There's a reason why they have a list of bugs and features requests a mile long, and that's because my volunteer time is severely limited. When you want something done, the ONLY way of ensuring it is done is to pay for it. Volunteering in too unreliable.

And what has actually gone wrong? Nothing really bad. The site works, just not as well as it could. Mobile was always intended to follow this week, so raving on about it is pointless. It will get fixed, as was always intended.

As for the deadline, I have no idea why there was a deadline, or why it was when it was, so cannot really comment. My initial thought though, is that without deadlines, things simply don't get done. They waft along, eventually coming to some sort of conclusion that probably isn't what is required, and later than actually needed. My second thought is to do with the educational timetable. With the new curriculum on its way, a delay in getting out the required information would be problematical. And remember, this site is much more targeted at the educational side of things.
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fruitoftheloom
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Re: New Website

Mon Apr 07, 2014 9:03 am

Yes jamesh, here you loud and clear, be nice if Liz would put this to bed by posting, it is now just boring boring boring, everyone do what I have done, just accept and move on, plenty of other ways to grab the information if "dis-like" the new layout !
Retired disgracefully.....
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Re: New Website

Mon Apr 07, 2014 9:11 am

fruitoftheloom wrote:Yes jamesh, here you loud and clear, be nice if Liz would put this to bed by posting, it is now just boring boring boring, everyone do what I have done, just accept and move on, plenty of other ways to grab the information if "dis-like" the new layout !
I believe there are more important posts being worked on... you heard it here first....

But the point of this thread is to find out where there are problems - so if anyone has any comments (that are not already covered) please post here.
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redhawk
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Re: New Website

Mon Apr 07, 2014 9:38 am

And what has actually gone wrong? Nothing really bad.
Lets see: broken links, links to empty pages, pages not fitting the screen correctly, unreadable white text on light grey background (why??), weird behaviour with certain browsers etc.

While I have nothing against sites having a major overhaul you would at least expect everything to be properly tested beforehand this isn't exactly some Joe Bloggs homepage we're talking about.

Richard S.

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Re: New Website

Mon Apr 07, 2014 9:51 am

What is better:
Site is now full of information to explore - I'm much happier pointing newbies at this one.

TBH the previous site was just a blog, and remained so o too long.
You had to goto elinux.org or elsewhere to get much info, now it's all in one place.
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Re: New Website

Mon Apr 07, 2014 10:16 am

redhawk wrote:
And what has actually gone wrong? Nothing really bad.
Lets see: broken links, links to empty pages, pages not fitting the screen correctly, unreadable white text on light grey background (why??), weird behaviour with certain browsers etc.

While I have nothing against sites having a major overhaul you would at least expect everything to be properly tested beforehand this isn't exactly some Joe Bloggs homepage we're talking about.

Richard S.
You misunderstand - those are not problems that stop the website being used (I'm using it without problem for example). There's nothing 'really bad' in your list. Clearly, they are all areas of improvement that need pointing out, but they don't stop the majority of the site from working. I'd really characterise the majority of issues so far reported as teething trouble rather than massive problems, not withstanding the mobile screen issue which is due for sorting out this week (as per the plan)
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Contrary to popular belief, humorous signatures are allowed. Here's an example...
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