kiafaldorius
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Re: Should I be able to boot off a 16GB SDHC?

Tue Sep 13, 2011 1:01 pm

Hi,

I got my hands on a Raspberry Pi (Model B). I can boot it and have been able to dd clone a copy of the 2GB SD Card that came with the development board--and boot off the copy.

However, I haven't been able to boot it off a 16GB SDHC Card. According to the wiki, I assume it should be possible, however, I can't seem to get it to boot. I assume the GPU bootloader may not recognize the card or isn't loading the partitions correctly. (I have no way to test/verify/debug this.)

So here's what I've tried:

A dd copy of the 2GB image onto the 16GB. Did not work. I was going to resize the partitions after if it worked, but alas, =[

Repartitioning the 16GB with a similar structure (but to take up the whole disk):
1) Fat32 (LBA) - 81M
2) Linux (ext3) - 15G
3) Swap - the rest

and then copying the data over. Still didn't boot. The screen shows no signal in all cases.

So...any recommendations on how to get it to boot or at least debug the bootloader process?

Thanks!

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liz
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Re: Should I be able to boot off a 16GB SDHC?

Tue Sep 13, 2011 1:06 pm

I'm assuming you mean an alpha board (the Model Bs and Model As haven't been manufactured yet). I think this is a question for James - I'll try to bring it to his attention!
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kiafaldorius
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Re: Should I be able to boot off a 16GB SDHC?

Tue Sep 13, 2011 1:14 pm

Yes, the development alpha boards. Thanks liz!

eben
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Re: Should I be able to boot off a 16GB SDHC?

Tue Sep 13, 2011 1:27 pm

We know we have boot problems with some newer, larger SDHC devices. Reasons for this include voltage incompatibility (we're 3v3 only right now, and miscellaneous timing problems). If the SD card light doesn't go on at all when you power it up, that indicates that our GPU-side bootloader is failing to mount the card to read the GPU firmware and kernel image.

I'm afraid for now you'll need to use a different card. If you can let me know the make and model of the card you're having trouble with, I'll add it to the list of "things to investigate".

Johannes
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Re: Should I be able to boot off a 16GB SDHC?

Tue Sep 13, 2011 1:36 pm

Is the boot loader in the GPU something that can be changed? If so, how is it protected against accidental changes, and is there a recovery mechanism?

eben
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Re: Should I be able to boot off a 16GB SDHC?

Tue Sep 13, 2011 1:45 pm

The bootloader is in ROM, but we have the ability to configure its interaction with SD cards using one-time-programmable (OTP) bits.

kiafaldorius
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Re: Should I be able to boot off a 16GB SDHC?

Tue Sep 13, 2011 1:59 pm

The 16GB SDHC is a Sandisk Extreme, model number SDSDRX3-016G-A21.

I'll dig at it a little more and then possibly try a downgrade to 4GB or 8GB.

Thanks!

jamesh
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Re: Should I be able to boot off a 16GB SDHC?

Tue Sep 13, 2011 2:08 pm

Quote from liz on September 13, 2011, 14:06
I'm assuming you mean an alpha board (the Model Bs and Model As haven't been manufactured yet). I think this is a question for James - I'll try to bring it to his attention!

I've only tried up to 4GB (A Kingston SDHC part SD4/4GB) but have had no issues with them at all. Sounds like Eben is on to this one...
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liz
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Re: Should I be able to boot off a 16GB SDHC?

Tue Sep 13, 2011 2:16 pm

I have a dim recollection of some of the guys at [distro name here] reporting problems with higher class SDHC cards - it appears this might be a Linux thing rather than a Raspi thing. You might have more success with something with a lower write speed.
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Svartalf
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Re: Should I be able to boot off a 16GB SDHC?

Tue Sep 13, 2011 5:08 pm

It's probably something to do with timings on the Class 6 and Class 10 cards. People had all sorts of fun with Class 6 cards with the earlier Beagleboards and when they were doing board bring-up with on the OpenPandora handheld. It was "better" with smaller cards and worse with larger ones as a FYI. Later on boards had better results with 4's and 8's, but 16's can still be twitchy. With at least the OMAP3 device cases I've mentioned, it was a silicon problem as best as everyone could tell.

hamster
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Re: Should I be able to boot off a 16GB SDHC?

Thu Nov 03, 2011 9:44 am

Quick question.. at the moment what class SDHC card do you recommend using?

I ask because a local bulk retailer has Lexar Class 4 SDHC cards going for USD$15 (which is less than I can get them a wholesaler). Should I snaffle me a few?

I know you can't guarantee anything, but it sounds like it could be a good thing that it is slow, big, cheap card (at least for initial playing around)...

obarthelemy
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Re: Should I be able to boot off a 16GB SDHC?

Thu Nov 03, 2011 10:22 am

It seems anything above Class4 is iffy, as is anything above 4GB. I'd tread carefully and go with those specs, and let the fun of sorting things out to others ^^. Also avoid microSD ones with adapters, they have been reported elsewhere to cause issues.
I actually ate my own nerd food and bought a couple of Sandisk Class 4 / 4GB ones.

Oxwivi
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Re: Should I be able to boot off a 16GB SDHC?

Thu Nov 03, 2011 10:41 am

Can we have clear-cut documentation on what's going to work and what's not going to work by release time? A way for noobs to recognize these classes of SD cards discussed above would be great.

dom
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Re: Should I be able to boot off a 16GB SDHC?

Thu Nov 03, 2011 11:13 am

I think we can only definitively say a card will work if we have tested it.
The number of sdcards in existance is greater than we can test ouselves.

A wiki seems like a suitable place where cards that have been tested to work or not work can be documented.

Personally, I have the following working cards:
Kingston SDHC 8GB class 4
Kingstone SD 2GB (no class mentioned)
Sandisk Ultra II SD 2GB class 4
Kingston SDHC 8GB class 4
Transcend SDHC 8GB class 6

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liz
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Re: Should I be able to boot off a 16GB SDHC?

Thu Nov 03, 2011 12:10 pm

Dom! Nice to see you here. Dom is a friend from Broadcom who's helping us with development (I think he knocked together the video demos we've been using, along with some other stuff). Do not *ever* agree to play any sort of game for money with him.
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bnolsen
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Re: Should I be able to boot off a 16GB SDHC?

Sat Nov 05, 2011 3:23 am

Time for that SD(HC) compatibility matrix??

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abishur
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Re: Should I be able to boot off a 16GB SDHC?

Sat Nov 05, 2011 3:51 am

Eh, I would hold my breath too much on this one. Matrix's like this are usually a community lead effort. Let the designers work on getting the next one out (especially the first batch, they're swamped!)
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portets
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Re: Should I be able to boot off a 16GB SDHC?

Sat Nov 05, 2011 8:06 am

will these sd issues be fixable via firmware? or is there a real hardware problem in this?

i was hoping to run either a 16gb or 32gb in a class 10. :/

obarthelemy
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Re: Should I be able to boot off a 16GB SDHC?

Sat Nov 05, 2011 8:09 am

Just started the consolidated topic, but now I'm wondering... are there any differences between alphas and production units, as far as the SD interface is concerned ? I seem to remember reading somewhere a while back that the interface was not finalized, which leaves the door open for differences ?

hamjudo
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Re: Should I be able to boot off a 16GB SDHC?

Fri Nov 18, 2011 6:44 pm

This leads to a related question.

Can anyone suggest reasonable quality USB SD card interfaces that work with the Raspberry Pi?

I suspect that almost every 32Gb class 10 card will work in external SD card slots, even if the system can't boot from them. This is naturally less than ideal, but given how little the USB SD card interfaces cost, it doesn't seem like a huge burden.

An ebay search for "USB SD Card", restricted to "buy it now", "Free shipping", and price of 0.00 to 1.00 returns 196 hits.

I've used some designed for full size SD cards, and many of them weren't mechanically robust. I expect that the ones for the micro SD cards would be more durable, but I haven't used them.

To me, "working well with the Raspberry Pi", means that I can plug it directly into one of the USB host slots, and still have access to the other slot. The ones I've played with, were too fat, until I snapped off the plastic case.

I know nothing of the I/O performance on these things.

obarthelemy
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Re: Should I be able to boot off a 16GB SDHC?

Fri Nov 18, 2011 7:20 pm

If you want to play it safe, just get a regular carder reader. The regular cable that goes from the Pi to the reader is sure to not take too much room. Something like that (grabbed at random for the picture, not a recommendation).

EDIT: Beware, the PI uses full-size SD, not microSD.

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