inru
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Re: No need for the QtOnPi community?

Sun May 27, 2012 10:33 am

I quite understand the frustation. The whole QtonPi idea is quite nice, with 400 boards being sponsored for basically 400 different open-source projects, and Nokia certainly deserves some respect for setting this up.

It should be noted that before this thread, communication has been going on on the QtonPi mailing list, and between Nokia (especially Quim Gil) and the Raspberry Pi Foundation, but at a certain moment everything just dropped at the other end. As a QtonPi contributor myself I'm quite underwhelmed by the foundation, mostly due to it's lack of open communication, also given the batch size and Nokia-backed sponsoring.

I do believe the majority of the contributors wouldn't mind spending a little money on a Pi, but it seems to me that a key strategy of QtonPi was trying to get a headstart on development and get a vast number of projects rolling parallel to the board's development.. which doesn't seem to come to fruition the way things are going.

I expect someone in the foundation will be able to shed some light on this.

jppiiroinen
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Re: No need for the QtOnPi community?

Mon May 28, 2012 9:43 am

inru wrote:The whole QtonPi idea is quite nice, with 400 boards being sponsored for basically 400 different open-source projects, and Nokia certainly deserves some respect for setting this up.
And the unique thing on this was that all of them are professionals and engineers in the own field of knowledge. So even having the luxury of hunting down 400 engineers which are willing to work for "peanuts" is a task which usually is really hard (if impossible) to do. Big kudos to people at Nokia who were able to pull it off.

As a one of the Device Program members, I also had the impression in the beginning that I would receive to board as soon as possible (even possible before the public distribution), in order to develop and create "a perfect showcase project" for the RPi and Qt, which then the 3rd party people could just take into use and extend as they wish.

And as such, this whole thing started to feel like that this is not what is needed/wanted by anybody, which I think is a bit sad as if not mine then some other QtOnPi project could be the-killer-app for the RPi.

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cnxsoft
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Re: No need for the QtOnPi community?

Mon May 28, 2012 10:57 am

Max wrote:
abishur wrote: 3) You are again assuming that they have deliberately holding out on you.
Well, if you don't want people assuming such things you should be honest and open about what happened to the boards.

Nokia has stated several times that the foundation has promised them that the boards would be from the first batch.
And that the boards were ready and waiting to be dispatched when we were told to e-mail our postal address details to a @raspberrypi.org e-mail address a while ago.

Even Liz herself made a remark here to that extent on april 12:

http://www.raspberrypi.org/phpBB3/viewt ... 11&p=62933
liz wrote:That's right - Eben spoke to Quim Gil last night, and Myra's sending the boards out to the QT guys next week direct from the Foundation.
If then that turns out to be not the case, you can't blame people for thinking the foundation sold those boards to someone else.
This part is particularly frustrating as 20,000 devices have been shipped, but the "Nokia" boards were supposed to be part of the first 10,000 batch. Now, there is only a QtonPi alpha release because some people @ Nokia have had access to the boards for some time, the members of Qt community haven't, unless they purchased boards directly.

trilion99
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Re: No need for the QtOnPi community?

Mon May 28, 2012 11:10 am

This part is particularly frustrating as 20,000 devices have been shipped, but the "Nokia" boards were supposed to be part of the first 10,000 batch. Now, there is only a QtonPi alpha release because some people @ Nokia have had access to the boards for some time, the members of Qt community haven't, unless they purchased boards directly.
From the RPi blog:

"Things round here won’t stop entirely, though. The forums are really lively at the moment, while so many of you are receiving your Raspberry Pis. There are now tens of thousands out there in the hands of users, with more are arriving every day.."

It's almost funny. Feels a bit like the bouncer at the door of the club where all the super-pretty girls go in tells you can't get in because tonight it's a private party.. :-)

jppiiroinen
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Re: No need for the QtOnPi community?

Mon May 28, 2012 11:54 am

trilion99 wrote:It's almost funny. Feels a bit like the bouncer at the door of the club where all the super-pretty girls go in tells you can't get in because tonight it's a private party.. :-)
I can hear the MC Hammer - Can't Touch This as well :lol:

obarthelemy
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Re: No need for the QtOnPi community?

Mon May 28, 2012 12:05 pm

OTOH, don't forget most of us are in the same boat as you, and we'll have to pay for our boards, too.

Free stuff is nice, even if it's a bit late.

jppiiroinen
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Re: No need for the QtOnPi community?

Mon May 28, 2012 12:18 pm

obarthelemy wrote:OTOH, don't forget most of us are in the same boat as you, and we'll have to pay for our boards, too.
Join the MC Hammer with us \o/
obarthelemy wrote:Free stuff is nice, even if it's a bit late.
Yeah, but for me it is not about the price, it is about broken promises for an access to 1st row.

trilion99
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Re: No need for the QtOnPi community?

Mon May 28, 2012 12:42 pm

obarthelemy wrote:Free stuff is nice, even if it's a bit late.
Yeah, I see what you mean: Instead of letting you pay to enter the good party right away they give you a free ticket for the boring event on the next day (a Sunday night). But no worries, let's all do some proper warm up: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=otCpCn0l4Wo&ob=av2n

jppiiroinen
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Re: No need for the QtOnPi community?

Mon May 28, 2012 6:17 pm

trilion99 wrote:
obarthelemy wrote:Free stuff is nice, even if it's a bit late.
Yeah, I see what you mean: Instead of letting you pay to enter the good party right away they give you a free ticket for the boring event on the next day (a Sunday night). But no worries, let's all do some proper warm up: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=otCpCn0l4Wo&ob=av2n
So in other words, at the moment it seems that we got http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ by the QtOnPi Device Program. :P

jjrvi
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Re: No need for the QtOnPi community?

Tue May 29, 2012 6:51 am

Also wanted to comment on the frustrating situation. Basically the foundation itself announced that 400 developers would be getting their devices free from the first batch in this post:

http://www.raspberrypi.org/archives/369

Nokia handled vetting the deserving projects, allocated mentors and set up developer communication channels, so that the benefit to the Pi community would be maximized from useful open source projects available soon after the launch of the device itself to the general public. I was really surprised that comparatively few interested developers signed up!

Now it seems that the whole 400 devices idea was later forgotten, even though apparently Nokia actively tried to keep it alive. I wish the foundation had told us so we could've tried to compete with the scalpers for our devices like everyone else.

Even if we do eventually get our devices, it's weird that overall there was so little interest in getting software on the new device quickly, after an initial announcement made it seem like that.

hzrnbgy
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Re: No need for the QtOnPi community?

Tue May 29, 2012 11:52 am

Still no official word from the foundation?

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ukscone
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Re: No need for the QtOnPi community?

Tue May 29, 2012 12:22 pm

hzrnbgy wrote:Still no official word from the foundation?
unfortunately Liz & Eben are away this week but before she left I emailed Liz about this and she said that although there have been some problems with the QtonPi program they have now been sorted out and she (or someone else) will get on it when she returns next week.

rae
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Re: No need for the QtOnPi community?

Tue May 29, 2012 1:51 pm

FWIW I got my activation code today and ordered my model B. Should get here (Toronto) in about 4 weeks. Just downloaded QtOnPi 0.2 to put on it. But maybe 0.3 will be out by the time I get the unit.

Regarding the topic, I do think there is a need for some sort of QtOnPi community. At least a forum to share tips, code, etc..

qgil
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Re: No need for the QtOnPi community?

Tue May 29, 2012 3:49 pm

Hi, fwiw this is the picture as seen from someone that has been involved in the QtonPi project almost since its birth:

- A couple of people at Nokia with a good relationship with Broadcom knew about the Raspberry Pi at early stages of the project. They found the cool board and the Qt 5 release would fit perfectly because of the emphasis on graphics performance in limited hardware and the timeline of both projects.

- Nokia and ICS put budget and work together for the QtonPi plan, consisting on the development of an image optimized for Qt 5 and the acquisition of a batch of devices for Qt open source projects and Qt partners. The plan was shared with the Raspberry Pi Foundation, who welcomed the initiative and promised to get that order for the first batch of devices.

All this happened at a time when only a tiny % of people was aware of the Raspberry Pi project at all, and when nobody has an idea of what would be the actual reception and sales demand. QtonPi was probably one of the first "big" initiatives committing and contributing to the success of the lovely pies.

You know the rest.

For the observers here, please understand the frustration of the QtonPi participants. Most of them didn't order their device months backs just because we told them they would get one delivered as part of the first batch. Now they see that others that went through the regular purchase process have got their boards delivered, and they even see how intact RPi boxes are being sold in eBay by some of the lucky ones in the first batch. If they would have known, most of them could have afforded the price anyway. I'm happy to say that among the 400 QtonPi we have many that can't easily afford board + shipment costs to countries like China, India, Brazil and more - and I'm happy to see that eventually they will get their hardware.

Note also that even us at Nokia have done the QtonPi releases only with a few alpha boards - and nothing else. I believe there is only one surviving now. We desperately need those boards, also for our own Qt 5 launch preparations (where the RPi will be featured in marketing videos and demos) and many other Qt 5 based projects going on. If we would have known we would also have placed our orders directly to the distributors.

I'm not blaming anybody. The raspberry Pi success came (big time) and with it the difficulties to consolidate the infrastructure and supply timely all the demand. The Foundation had to make changes on their distribution plans, and those plans affected the initial plan for delivering the boards to the QtonPi community. Things seems to be moving forward right now, and I hope this thread will be anecdotal in a few weeks.

Thank you Raspberry Pi Foundation for doing your best, thank you QtonPi community for your patience and thank you rest of RPi community for your understanding. I hope things are more clear now, and I hope they will become clearer when you see the beauty and awe Qt developers contribute to this amazing initiative.

obarthelemy
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Re: No need for the QtOnPi community?

Tue May 29, 2012 5:24 pm

hzrnbgy wrote:Still no official word from the foundation?
as I already said a few posts back, Liz is away this week, and will certainly take care of things upon coming back. Should I lock this thread until then ? I'm trying to remain courteous and not speak my mind, but I won't be able to hold out forever.

trilion99
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Re: No need for the QtOnPi community?

Wed May 30, 2012 12:48 pm

Should I lock this thread until then ? I'm trying to remain courteous and not speak my mind, but I won't be able to hold out forever.
Hmm, if you lock the thread it probably will be a similar statement to speaking your mind. Anyway, please keep it real, noone has intended to express anything abusive here. Peace!

PS: Gil, Thanks very much for your (as usual) thoughtful words. Let's wait and see.

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Burngate
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Re: No need for the QtOnPi community?

Wed May 30, 2012 5:00 pm

Just a note from an outside observer:
not being in any respect a 'developer' I didn't try signing up to the program, but thought it seemed a good idea.
It is disappointing to hear you didn't get your Pis - 400 out of 10k, 4% of the first lot to genuine developers would have been good.
But who's fault was it? The Foundation? Nokia? RS? Farnell? Or was it actually the rest of us DDoS-ing the system on day zero!
So Mea Culpa. Sorry. ;)

jppiiroinen
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Re: No need for the QtOnPi community?

Mon Jun 04, 2012 10:11 am

PING

milhouse
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Re: No need for the QtOnPi community?

Mon Jun 04, 2012 10:23 am

jppiiroinen wrote:PING
FYI it's a Bank Holiday here in the UK for Monday and Tuesday - Queens Jubilee.

trilion99
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Re: No need for the QtOnPi community?

Tue Jun 05, 2012 5:05 am

milhouse wrote:
jppiiroinen wrote:PING
FYI it's a Bank Holiday here in the UK for Monday and Tuesday - Queens Jubilee.
How dare you ping during holdidays!
You better watch this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0X7RyGBq2E8

jjrvi
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Re: No need for the QtOnPi community?

Wed Jun 06, 2012 5:35 pm

Hope we'll get an official word from the foundation soon. I only thought to register interest in Farnell and RS when this thread was posted, the wait through those channels will be long.

jjrvi
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Re: No need for the QtOnPi community?

Fri Jun 08, 2012 10:52 am

Maybe obarthelemy or grumpyoldgit could point out the correct channel for this sort of inquiry? This forum was the last resort after many weeks of trying as far as I can tell. Maybe now is a good time for the annoyed forum regulars to speak their mind and perhaps give some insight? Apparently I'm not authorized to PM anyone, is that the solution? What I'd personally like to know is:

1. Is the foundation aware that there are 400 developers that were promised devices from the first 10k and some are starting to question if getting selected means they got lucky or unlucky, considering 85k other people already got theirs?

2. If we're still supposed to get our allocated devices, will it be before or after we could get them through RS or Farnell anyway by registering interest now?

I'm guessing the answers are "yes" and "not at all or after" but nobody wants to say it out loud. It would be helpful though, so everyone in the QtOnPi community could then get on the queue at RS and Farnell if they haven't done so yet.

farcaller
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Re: No need for the QtOnPi community?

Fri Jun 08, 2012 12:20 pm

It's clearly a time when we need to know if we still should wait for a device or go and check on the RS / Farnell queue.

qgil
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Re: No need for the QtOnPi community?

Fri Jun 08, 2012 5:15 pm

The fact is that another week went by and we didn't get any communication from any channel (including our direct requests via email). I understand ranting in public is not the right way but on the other hand it feels that only when there is some fire with visible smoke we get some kind of feedback from the sources.

Qt 5 Beta is around the corner. Qt Contributors Summit is around the corner. The production of videos, tutorials etc about Qt 5 is about to start. Since our initial plans in Autumn 2011 the Raspberry Pi had a prominent role in all these activities. Now what?

If we don't get confirmation orders by next Monday / Tuesday we will need to work in a plan B - with or without Raspberry Pi.

PS: posting these lines in this thread make me uncomfortable and in fact sad - but I don't know what else can I do to help getting those devices in our hands.

Phil Spiegel
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Re: No need for the QtOnPi community?

Fri Jun 08, 2012 8:01 pm

Have you tried 'Tweeting' Liz ? - the front page www.raspberrypi.org seems to carry a frequently monitored / commented on / updated stream of 'Tweets' (don't ask me how, I'm not a tweeter or facebook user)

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