DirkS
Posts: 10419
Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2012 9:46 pm
Location: Essex, UK

Re: Any news on official Raspberry Display?

Sat Dec 06, 2014 2:20 pm

mung wrote:we may not see the display until after christmas :(
Shoudn't be a surprise... from http://techcrunch.com/2014/10/21/pi-pads/
“This is our first display panel that we’re going to be hopefully getting out of the door before the end of the year or early next,” he added.

jamesh
Raspberry Pi Engineer & Forum Moderator
Raspberry Pi Engineer & Forum Moderator
Posts: 27070
Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2011 7:41 pm

Re: Any news on official Raspberry Display?

Sat Dec 06, 2014 2:46 pm

mung wrote:
gsh wrote:
No unfortunately that doesn't actually help... The reason is that the DPI display has 24 signal lines that all transition up and down at the same time creating huge current spikes in the sources to those lines (i.e. the drivers in the conversion chip). The wires themselves will radiate some energy although it's unlikely they'll create a huge amount because they are so short. But those signals end up travelling out of the unit back down the power wire which tends to be around 2m long - perfect for some 100MHz type interference!

To combat this we add decoupling capacitors and chokes to the board, unfortunately these are expensive and you have to be very careful where you mount them and how you route the signals otherwise you end up coupling the noise straight back into the supply cable. Unfortunately this means the process of creating a device like the display is complicated by the problems of having to iterate the design to reduce the noise. Of course if it was someone else making the board or some Chinese outfit they'd not care, but we have to be much more careful (and we're learning as we go!)
Gordon
Well I know nothing about electronics (in the grand scheme of things) so anything I say is probably wrong, but.

Do switch mode supplies not isolate the supply (at least when switched off)? maybe chained?

You say DPI, I thought it was DSI, are DSI displays not available so that you don't have to get a DPI display and convert DSI to DPI seems a lot of extra electronics :(

What is the LAW requirements for EMC, if it were me I would split up the system sell the screen and the driver board seperately and have a legal disclaimer saying 'driver board not to be used with display as may cause unwanted RFI'. Not really very nice solution for some people when their wifi or TV sets stop working, but I will do anything to save money :lol:

So from what you are saying everything is still in development and we may not see the display until after christmas :(
The law can be interpreted in different ways, but from RS and Farnells point of view, you adhere to the EMC regs as they see them or they don't sell the product. Splitting up isn't really an options.

The display being sold is DPI with the electronics to convert to DSI and supplied with the screen as a small interface PCB. I think this is for cost and supply reasons - cheaper.
Principal Software Engineer at Raspberry Pi (Trading) Ltd.
Contrary to popular belief, humorous signatures are allowed.
I've been saying "Mucho" to my Spanish friend a lot more lately. It means a lot to him.

User avatar
Burngate
Posts: 6351
Joined: Thu Sep 29, 2011 4:34 pm
Location: Berkshire UK Tralfamadore
Contact: Website

Re: Any news on official Raspberry Display?

Sat Dec 06, 2014 5:21 pm

jamesh wrote:The display being sold is DPI with the electronics to convert to DSI and supplied with the screen as a small interface PCB. I think this is for cost and supply reasons - cheaper.
Sooo ... slightly off topic ...
It's a DPI display ... and the Pi has a DPI interface, which Gert's VGA board uses ... could we ditch the DSI-DPI converter and just connect it straight to the GPIO header?
Or am I being a DiPstIck?

jdb
Raspberry Pi Engineer & Forum Moderator
Raspberry Pi Engineer & Forum Moderator
Posts: 2437
Joined: Thu Jul 11, 2013 2:37 pm

Re: Any news on official Raspberry Display?

Sat Dec 06, 2014 5:45 pm

Burngate wrote:
jamesh wrote:The display being sold is DPI with the electronics to convert to DSI and supplied with the screen as a small interface PCB. I think this is for cost and supply reasons - cheaper.
Sooo ... slightly off topic ...
It's a DPI display ... and the Pi has a DPI interface, which Gert's VGA board uses ... could we ditch the DSI-DPI converter and just connect it straight to the GPIO header?
Or am I being a DiPstIck?
Yes, for some value of "working".

Display controllers often have very rigid timing requirements regarding sync signals, clock outputs, blanking intervals and so on. Violating any one of the timing parameters (which generally aren't well documented, if at all) results in a display that doesn't display things.

The amount of manual knob tweaking required to get a display to work, either via DSI or DPI, is not something to be underestimated.
Rockets are loud.
https://astro-pi.org

gsh
Raspberry Pi Engineer & Forum Moderator
Raspberry Pi Engineer & Forum Moderator
Posts: 1583
Joined: Sat Sep 10, 2011 11:43 am

Re: Any news on official Raspberry Display?

Sun Dec 07, 2014 2:19 pm

Yeah as Jonathan says, the DPI could be used but it isn't really much of a solution because then there'll be no GPIOs to do anything else with!

EMI can be got around by selling it as a component of a product ... But that's a great sign of a poor quality product. We at Raspberry Pi are not really interested in creating poor quality anything, we're also making these things in quantities that actually get noticed by import controls who go and check our conformance

So it's not really Farnell / RS who put pressure on us to pass our EMC, but we make sure our products work properly (don't forget poor quality devices will interfere with your WiFi... How would it be if you turn on the display and find that your WiFi doesn't work?

Some things are important...

Gordon
--
Gordon Hollingworth PhD
Raspberry Pi - Director of Software Engineering

User avatar
Alexander Brown
Posts: 97
Joined: Thu Jan 23, 2014 2:36 pm

Re: Any news on official Raspberry Display?

Sun Dec 07, 2014 2:24 pm

gsh wrote:Yeah as Jonathan says, the DPI could be used but it isn't really much of a solution because then there'll be no GPIOs to do anything else with!

EMI can be got around by selling it as a component of a product ... But that's a great sign of a poor quality product. We at Raspberry Pi are not really interested in creating poor quality anything, we're also making these things in quantities that actually get noticed by import controls who go and check our conformance

So it's not really Farnell / RS who put pressure on us to pass our EMC, but we make sure our products work properly (don't forget poor quality devices will interfere with your WiFi... How would it be if you turn on the display and find that your WiFi doesn't work?

Some things are important...

Gordon
Would be a bit silly to get the display and effectively turn you pi into a tablet and then find you need a wired internet connection because of the interference from the display blocking the Wi-Fi
I am

hippy
Posts: 8249
Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2011 10:34 pm
Location: UK

Re: Any news on official Raspberry Display?

Sun Dec 07, 2014 2:52 pm

mung wrote:What is the LAW requirements for EMC, if it were me I would split up the system sell the screen and the driver board seperately and have a legal disclaimer saying 'driver board not to be used with display as may cause unwanted RFI'. Not really very nice solution for some people when their wifi or TV sets stop working, but I will do anything to save money :lol:
Professional companies cannot afford to be so blasé about their responsibility to others who are affected by what they produce or sell. That is why the Pi had to undergo its EMC testing as well.

User avatar
davidcoton
Posts: 5347
Joined: Mon Sep 01, 2014 2:37 pm
Location: Cambridge, UK
Contact: Website

Re: Any news on official Raspberry Display?

Sun Dec 07, 2014 5:11 pm

In my experience companies who take short cuts on EMC also take short cuts on the quality and safety of their products. I for one want products that are good in all those areas. If it costs a little more, so be it. It's still cheaper than killing someone by faulty mains wiring, or burning a house down with under-rated components. And don't underestimate the cost of messing about to work round EMC issues -- you can waste hours sorting out a problem caused by a careless manufacturer.
Location: 345th cell on the right of the 210th row of L2 cache

ulix
Posts: 72
Joined: Sat Apr 14, 2012 6:11 pm

Re: Any news on official Raspberry Display?

Mon Dec 08, 2014 1:26 pm

Now it's december, is there any news? Will it happen this year, or next year?
cheers

DirkS
Posts: 10419
Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2012 9:46 pm
Location: Essex, UK

Re: Any news on official Raspberry Display?

Mon Dec 08, 2014 1:30 pm

ulix wrote:Will it happen this year, or next year?
Yes.

User avatar
Alexander Brown
Posts: 97
Joined: Thu Jan 23, 2014 2:36 pm

Re: Any news on official Raspberry Display?

Mon Dec 08, 2014 1:35 pm

DirkS wrote:
ulix wrote:Will it happen this year, or next year?
Yes.
42
I am

gsh
Raspberry Pi Engineer & Forum Moderator
Raspberry Pi Engineer & Forum Moderator
Posts: 1583
Joined: Sat Sep 10, 2011 11:43 am

Re: Any news on official Raspberry Display?

Mon Dec 08, 2014 2:23 pm

First quarter 2015 is the current challenge!

Gordon
--
Gordon Hollingworth PhD
Raspberry Pi - Director of Software Engineering

shuckle
Posts: 565
Joined: Sun Aug 26, 2012 11:49 am
Location: Finland

Re: Any news on official Raspberry Display?

Mon Dec 08, 2014 2:47 pm

You need time machine for that, so challenge indeed.

gsh
Raspberry Pi Engineer & Forum Moderator
Raspberry Pi Engineer & Forum Moderator
Posts: 1583
Joined: Sat Sep 10, 2011 11:43 am

Re: Any news on official Raspberry Display?

Mon Dec 08, 2014 3:09 pm

shuckle wrote:You need time machine for that, so challenge indeed.
Oops... edited!
--
Gordon Hollingworth PhD
Raspberry Pi - Director of Software Engineering

User avatar
DougieLawson
Posts: 39867
Joined: Sun Jun 16, 2013 11:19 pm
Location: A small cave in deepest darkest Basingstoke, UK
Contact: Website Twitter

Re: Any news on official Raspberry Display?

Mon Dec 08, 2014 3:17 pm

gsh wrote:
shuckle wrote:You need time machine for that, so challenge indeed.
Oops... edited!
I bet your bank used to reject all the cheques you wrote in January.
Note: Any requirement to use a crystal ball or mind reading will result in me ignoring your question.

Criticising any questions is banned on this forum.

Any DMs sent on Twitter will be answered next month.
All fake doctors are on my foes list.

ulix
Posts: 72
Joined: Sat Apr 14, 2012 6:11 pm

Re: Any news on official Raspberry Display?

Mon Dec 08, 2014 6:06 pm

Hi Gordon,
thank you for your feedback! It's very appreceated 8-)

AndersNM
Posts: 1
Joined: Mon Jan 19, 2015 11:49 am

Re: Any news on official Raspberry Display?

Mon Jan 19, 2015 12:19 pm

Any update on a shipment date?

ShiftPlusOne
Raspberry Pi Engineer & Forum Moderator
Raspberry Pi Engineer & Forum Moderator
Posts: 6238
Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2011 5:36 pm
Location: The unfashionable end of the western spiral arm of the Galaxy

Re: Any news on official Raspberry Display?

Mon Jan 19, 2015 12:25 pm

When there is, it will be posted here and/or on the blog.

User avatar
DougieLawson
Posts: 39867
Joined: Sun Jun 16, 2013 11:19 pm
Location: A small cave in deepest darkest Basingstoke, UK
Contact: Website Twitter

Re: Any news on official Raspberry Display?

Mon Jan 19, 2015 1:44 pm

AndersNM wrote:Any update on a shipment date?
Ask again in April.
Note: Any requirement to use a crystal ball or mind reading will result in me ignoring your question.

Criticising any questions is banned on this forum.

Any DMs sent on Twitter will be answered next month.
All fake doctors are on my foes list.

User avatar
RaTTuS
Posts: 10574
Joined: Tue Nov 29, 2011 11:12 am
Location: North West UK
Contact: Twitter YouTube

Re: Any news on official Raspberry Display?

Mon Jan 19, 2015 1:47 pm

1st march ;)
How To ask Questions :- http://www.catb.org/esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
WARNING - some parts of this post may be erroneous YMMV

1QC43qbL5FySu2Pi51vGqKqxy3UiJgukSX
Covfefe

User avatar
Alexander Brown
Posts: 97
Joined: Thu Jan 23, 2014 2:36 pm

Re: Any news on official Raspberry Display?

Mon Jan 19, 2015 2:11 pm

RaTTuS wrote:1st march ;)
Is this a set release date?
I am

User avatar
RaTTuS
Posts: 10574
Joined: Tue Nov 29, 2011 11:12 am
Location: North West UK
Contact: Twitter YouTube

Re: Any news on official Raspberry Display?

Mon Jan 19, 2015 2:15 pm

Alexander Brown wrote:
RaTTuS wrote:1st march ;)
Is this a set release date?
:roll: http://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/viewt ... 00#p674241
How To ask Questions :- http://www.catb.org/esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
WARNING - some parts of this post may be erroneous YMMV

1QC43qbL5FySu2Pi51vGqKqxy3UiJgukSX
Covfefe

BillStephenson
Posts: 256
Joined: Thu May 17, 2012 1:25 am
Location: SW Missouri Ozarks
Contact: Website

Re: Any news on official Raspberry Display?

Fri Jan 23, 2015 7:28 pm

ShiftPlusOne wrote:When there is, it will be posted here and/or on the blog.
Or on a vendor's site, or some other blog, but I always miss those so I check here instead.

But for some reason I woke up this morning feeling we're getting close to seeing that post. I might be wrong again about that, but I'm almost positive we're closer...

W. H. Heydt
Posts: 13334
Joined: Fri Mar 09, 2012 7:36 pm
Location: Vallejo, CA (US)

Re: Any news on official Raspberry Display?

Fri Jan 23, 2015 7:51 pm

BillStephenson wrote:
ShiftPlusOne wrote:When there is, it will be posted here and/or on the blog.
Or on a vendor's site, or some other blog, but I always miss those so I check here instead.

But for some reason I woke up this morning feeling we're getting close to seeing that post. I might be wrong again about that, but I'm almost positive we're closer...
Well....yes... Every day we are 24 hours closer.

ulix
Posts: 72
Joined: Sat Apr 14, 2012 6:11 pm

Re: Any news on official Raspberry Display?

Wed Feb 04, 2015 12:19 pm

It would be great to know something more precise. Now the Pi V2 is out, most people thought this wouldn't happen before the display, what happens with the display? Is the Raspberry Team so bussy that we have to wait another half-year/ year? Is the display gone on hold? Aren't we a community, which loves computing and science, that shares? :?

Return to “General discussion”