Chris
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Re: Ubuntu

Sat Sep 03, 2011 7:21 pm

What version of Ubuntu did you use for the prototype. I have been trying to find which one so I can play around with it in Vbox. I am guessing 9.04 but I cant find the arm port.

Blars
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Re: Ubuntu

Sun Sep 04, 2011 5:53 am

What I've seen mentioned is the alpha boards running Debian -- possibly Squeeze but the kernel is not one standard on Debian.

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RobinJ
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Re: Ubuntu

Sun Sep 04, 2011 11:18 am

Read the FAQ...
What Linux distros will be supported at launch?
Ubuntu, Debian and hopefully Fedora and ArchLinux will be supported from the start. We hope to see support from other distros later. We will be selling SD cards with the distros preloaded.
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Chris
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Re: Ubuntu

Sun Sep 04, 2011 9:00 pm

Quote from RobinJ on September 4, 2011, 12:18
Read the FAQ...
What Linux distros will be supported at launch?
Ubuntu, Debian and hopefully Fedora and ArchLinux will be supported from the start. We hope to see support from other distros later. We will be selling SD cards with the distros preloaded.

Learn to read posts before directing to the FAQ which does NOT have the information I requested. Dont you think I havent read the FAQ 10 times already.

I asked what specific version of ubuntu they used for the media images "Raspberry Pi prototype running Ubuntu 9.04". I wanted to know the exact build as I could not find an ARM one.

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liz
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Re: Ubuntu

Sun Sep 04, 2011 9:09 pm

I actually need to go and fix the FAQ - Ubuntu have said in the last few days that they're not going to be supporting Raspi because of the ARM issue, which means they'd have to support old builds which they're not prepared to do. Meanwhile, ArchLinux, Fedora and Debian all have alphas and are sending very encouraging feedback, and we have alphas out with other distros too, so I'm afraid I'll have to suggest you go with one of them.

ETA - FAQ changed.
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Re: Ubuntu

Mon Sep 05, 2011 2:41 pm

Quote from liz on September 4, 2011, 22:09
Ubuntu have said in the last few days that they're not going to be supporting Raspi because of the ARM issue, which means they'd have to support old builds which they're not prepared to do.

ARM issue? What tidbit did I actually miss in all this mix, Liz? (And if they're not supporting it, can I get their Alpha board in hand so I can add Angstrom/OpenEmbedded to the list of supported distributions? ;) )

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Re: Ubuntu

Mon Sep 05, 2011 4:23 pm

ARM issue = Ubuntu no longer support the older ARM version that's used in the Pi. They've been saying so for quite a while (cf the Plug Computer forums), so the only usable version would be an older one, and soon with no support.
</snide> The good thing is, it woudln't have Unity !</snide>

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Re: Ubuntu

Mon Sep 05, 2011 4:33 pm

No longer support ARM11? Really? Unless you're needing to support NEON, you're talking about that level of CPU support with the "modern" ARMs- and most of the code wouldn't be doing SIMD type operations.

Lame. (Heh... I don't blame you for the snide remarks there...)

Again...if they've got an Alpha board, there's little sense in them keeping it in their possession. If they do have one, you ought to ask for it back and hand it out to someone that will make something available for it that would be useful to the community as a whole. I was more joking than anything else when I made the quip I just did there (Though I would work at and maintain the OE/Angstrom support for quite a while if I did get one handed to me... ;) )

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liz
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Re: Ubuntu

Mon Sep 05, 2011 4:36 pm

They don't have an alpha; as you can see from the Bletchley Park video, we're being quite strict about them because numbers are limited. If someone has one and isn't using it, it has to come straight back to us.
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Re: Ubuntu

Mon Sep 05, 2011 4:49 pm

Quote from liz on September 5, 2011, 17:36
They don't have an alpha; as you can see from the Bletchley Park video, we're being quite strict about them because numbers are limited. If someone has one and isn't using it, it has to come straight back to us.

Works for me, Liz. I'd hate to have one of those few boards lying fallow- and I thought you all held the same position. I was pretty much jesting there on that score... ;)

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Re: Ubuntu

Mon Sep 05, 2011 4:49 pm

Well I am officially dumping Ubuntu totally now. I dropped them on the desktop because of Unity, and I am abandoning them for not supporting the Pi, where I would have used ubuntu several times over.

Just curious, Mint is Ubuntu based but Ubuntu is Debain based, would it be possible for Linux Mint to support the R-Pi, baring in mind they are not using unity in any form.

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Re: Ubuntu

Mon Sep 05, 2011 5:20 pm

Quote from Chris on September 5, 2011, 17:49
Well I am officially dumping Ubuntu totally now. I dropped them on the desktop because of Unity, and I am abandoning them for not supporting the Pi, where I would have used ubuntu several times over.

Just curious, Mint is Ubuntu based but Ubuntu is Debain based, would it be possible for Linux Mint to support the R-Pi, baring in mind they are not using unity in any form.

No offence, but did you really expect Ubuntu/Canonical to officially support the Raspberry Pi?
That's like saying you want Ubuntu to be officially supported on each and every platform it could techically work on.

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Re: Ubuntu

Mon Sep 05, 2011 5:59 pm

Quote from Marcus on September 5, 2011, 18:20
Quote from Chris on September 5, 2011, 17:49
Well I am officially dumping Ubuntu totally now. I dropped them on the desktop because of Unity, and I am abandoning them for not supporting the Pi, where I would have used ubuntu several times over.

Just curious, Mint is Ubuntu based but Ubuntu is Debain based, would it be possible for Linux Mint to support the R-Pi, baring in mind they are not using unity in any form.

No offence, but did you really expect Ubuntu/Canonical to officially support the Raspberry Pi?
That's like saying you want Ubuntu to be officially supported on each and every platform it could techically work on.

No, I dont expect them to support every platform, but all the good points ubuntu had have been demolished one by one since 9.10, they even showed that they would be supporting arm and were trying to move into intel atom and arm based hardware to bring the good of linux to the masses. The arm support is the last point to have been demolished.

The R-Pi was the last chance I would give ubuntu before completly dismissing it as something I want nothing to do with anymore.

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Re: Ubuntu

Mon Sep 05, 2011 6:23 pm

Just for the record, I quite like Unity. Couple of niggles but on the whole a good effort.

I'm not overly worried not having Ubuntu support on the Raspi - plenty of other distros you can use, and they are pretty much all the same!
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RobinJ
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Re: Ubuntu

Mon Sep 05, 2011 6:29 pm

Quote from jamesh on September 5, 2011, 19:23
Just for the record, I quite like Unity. Couple of niggles but on the whole a good effort.

I'm not overly worried not having Ubuntu support on the Raspi - plenty of other distros you can use, and they are pretty much all the same!
Agreed! :p
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Re: Ubuntu

Mon Sep 05, 2011 6:52 pm

I was glad to hear that RPi intend to offer ARM based distro's so as not to be faced with Unity. Or to be more correct having to download another GUI and get it working; even though that would be what a half hour's work?!

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Re: Ubuntu

Tue Sep 06, 2011 3:43 pm

Quote from Marcus on September 5, 2011, 18:20
No offence, but did you really expect Ubuntu/Canonical to officially support the Raspberry Pi?

Actually...yes.


That's like saying you want Ubuntu to be officially supported on each and every platform it could techically work on.

No, but in the same vein, the reasoning they're giving is almost totally specious- the processor's "old" but the bulk of the code (perhaps ALL of it...Ubuntu's not really doing anything SIMD specific- and the main and only substantive difference as far as the userland's concerned is NEON...) will work just fine on it. It's not a good reason to give. Lack of manpower to validate? I'd buy that one and not make snide remarks. Not supporting it because it's ARM11? Not buying it. :D

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Re: Ubuntu

Tue Sep 06, 2011 3:46 pm

Quote from jamesh on September 5, 2011, 19:23
Just for the record, I quite like Unity. Couple of niggles but on the whole a good effort.

It's radically different enough that, while I can drive it, it slows me down right at the moment. Like you, I've a few niggles, the aforementioned radical change being one of them- but it's much more usable if you're on a tablet from what I understand, and it's a nice effort.


I'm not overly worried not having Ubuntu support on the Raspi - plenty of other distros you can use, and they are pretty much all the same!

Yep. I'm not too upset...just disappointed that they used the reasons you've told us for not doing the support at this time. :D

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liz
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Re: Ubuntu

Tue Sep 06, 2011 3:56 pm

Well, the reason they gave was that they don't want to be spending dev time supporting old releases, which I do understand. It's disappointing, though.
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Svartalf
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Re: Ubuntu

Tue Sep 06, 2011 4:06 pm

Quote from liz on September 6, 2011, 16:56
Well, the reason they gave was that they don't want to be spending dev time supporting old releases, which I do understand. It's disappointing, though.

Heh... I can relate on that score... Knowing a bit about ARM stuff, "old releases", "older architectures", and the like rings hollow on the ears when they're read and said. ;)

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Re: Ubuntu

Tue Sep 06, 2011 4:12 pm

Offtopic regarding Unity:
- I can't use it, 'coz I've got 2 screens, with the main one on the right. I need the menu bar on the right too, otherwise it's in the middle of my setup, which is ugly, and a pain to use since my mouse will sail right through the menu bar and go on to my secondary screen. Especially with a collapsed menu bar that's a few pixels wide, this happens all the time. Not allowing users to move the menu bar is... inconceivable (and yes, that word means what I think it means ^^)
- My technology-challenged parents can't use it, 'coz they need several folders on their menu bar (and in the right order too, otherwise they get confused). Apparently, that's not allowed.
Plus honestly, I fail to see what was wrong with gnome or xfce. Same "it ain't broke, let's fix it, but not user-test it nor debug it" as with grub2 (which single-handed screwed up half my Ubuntu installs).

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Gert van Loo
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Re: Ubuntu

Tue Sep 06, 2011 5:35 pm

I think it will be up to us ALL to get them to change their mind. All we need is sell a few million boards and they will get enough requests to make it worth changing strategy...

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Re: Ubuntu

Tue Sep 06, 2011 5:50 pm

Well for me it means removing Ubuntu and installing debian on my laptop and nettop. I do not want to waste the time, on an operating system that does not want to waste the time. Considering that ARM is the fastest growing architecture in the market, especially in the Linux market, I would think it would be in their interest to at least look into it.
ARM is in almost all of the tablets and just about all of the phones, I don't know I must be missing something here?
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Re: Ubuntu

Tue Sep 06, 2011 5:53 pm

Why do we need to change their minds? It's not an optimal OS for the raspberry pi. They don't shy away from bloat, which is something that could cripple an r-pi. It's best to focus on distros which are designed to be lightweight than those designed to be mainstream. Distros like Angstrom, Gentoo, Crux and Arch are where it's at.

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Re: Ubuntu

Tue Sep 06, 2011 6:52 pm

I don't care what sub-flavor of Linux the Pi runs, as long at it runs OK and supports the right hardware and software. Which I'm fairly sure the "motivated" distros will do. Actually, I"d rather the Pi's distro be a different one, that way I can try something new out, and maybe adopt it on the desktop, too. Ubuntu has been pissing me off and giving me pointless grief for a bit of time.

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