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4 Rpi's

Fri Nov 08, 2013 10:25 pm

Hello all Raspis'

What I have, what I want and how to get it? I have 4 Rpi's and where are they? Well to begin with I am 56 years old, I bought my first computer in 1988. Since I have been through how many computers, Operating Systems etc... and I am tired of messing with them, altogether. The 4 Rpi's I have are sitting in a place here and there, in which I do not even care to mess with them any longer. I have given away a couple and actually had them returned to me, because the kids have Ipads and surely they don't want to learn programming on something like an Rpi. I am middle class at best, and the computers I gave away went to children that, let me say, poor to be polite, but they go to school and the city provided them the Ipads. So the situation is that I can sell these computers or put them to use? I don't want to spend my time trying to copy an OS to the card etc... I am busy and have better things to do. The situation remains, that people my age are interested in these little gadgets they don't have a lot of money, but will buy something like an Android instead. This is a big problem you have, by having to download, update etc... and keep it going is only going to last for a short time. My self would rather buy an Android once a year and stay updated without touching it. I can buy the Google Chromecast for the same cost is a Pi and go to the store and pick it up, and have it plugged in and running within 30 minutes.
Now it seems to me that you should be putting your R and D dollars into the OS for these devices. I know you are going to tell me that there are all kinds of OS's out there, I can get, but at the same time, here we go, download, transfer to card etc... I am not interested in doing that any longer. I am retired now and was hoping that when I retired I would get interested in doing it, but I am not. Actually more frustrated with them than anything else. After all I can go to an App store and get free apps all of the time for the Androids.
You need to think of consumers like me that support you by buying your product This has yet to be seen. You need to sell the cards with the OS installed on them. Not by someone on Ebay who does it, but by a small team that someone can contact that will set up the SD card the way they want it.
What I want, and think would be a good seller is an OS that will do the following. It already exists and can be downloaded, and put on the Pi, but again, I am not going to do it, only to shut it down for a couple of months and it not working any longer when I want it to, only to start over again.
Now I have the Androids that plug into the back of my televisions, and I can do what I want with them. However, one thing I do want is a computer that is set up for FM stereo radio. What I want to do with is to record radio, and be able to access it with any computer in my home, that will record radio stations, and play recorded content from my server. Simple, I guess I am saying a Tivo for Radio, would be the way to put it. There would also need to be a simple app to be used on an XP, Mac or Linux OS and , Android etc... to control the Rpi. I use a Fitpc-2 to do this at present. By you doing this it would be possible for some to have this option for less than $100, and if you could make the Pi is a FM transmitter at the same time, for even less than that. Why didn't I do this with the Rpi? It is because I downloaded the software to my XP computer and installed it and that was it. 10 minutes tops to set it up and have it running. I looked for what the Rpi had for options to do this. The OS exists for the Rpi, but not worth the trouble in me doing it, but I would pay for it if that option if it existed for a small price. What would happen is that I copy the card, sell the computer with a specific OS and sell the card and computer, buy more computers from you and the circle continues. For someone like me it is nearly impossible finding someone to do this for me and I am sure for most others my age.
Now in closing you may all be interested in seeing this: http://norfolk.craigslist.org/sys/4174526290.html
Maybe Rpi should sell these? So much for trying to reach the low end market? :D

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Re: 4 Rpi's

Fri Nov 08, 2013 10:48 pm

Signs

The Raspberry Pi is obviously not the machine for you.

You are not interested and you do not have the time to bother with it.

Why complain about it? Why not just buy whatever else it is you want?

Signs
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Re: 4 Rpi's

Fri Nov 08, 2013 10:57 pm

Heater wrote:Signs

The Raspberry Pi is obviously not the machine for you.

You are not interested and you do not have the time to bother with it.

Why complain about it? Why not just buy whatever else it is you want?
I am not complaining about it, I just think that it could be a whole lot more with just a little help from the foundation--As in selling the SD cards with OS's already installed to perform various tasks. I think it would increase sales dramatically.

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Re: 4 Rpi's

Fri Nov 08, 2013 11:00 pm

Signs,

Oh, and what the deal with being 56? You are still young.

Years ago my father was over retirement age (65 at the time) and bought a TRS-80. He taught himself how to program that thing. Amazing, given that those new fangled computer gadgets were mostly bought by or for teenagers at the time.

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Re: 4 Rpi's

Fri Nov 08, 2013 11:06 pm

Signs,
...as in selling the SD cards with OS's already installed to perform various tasks. I think it would increase sales dramatically.
Can't you do that already?

Here in Helsinki I can buy and Pi and optionally an SD with OS ready to go.

As for "increasing sales dramatically" I don't know. The first million Pis sold was already a hundred times more than anyone expected!

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Re: 4 Rpi's

Fri Nov 08, 2013 11:16 pm

Like I didn't need to learn how to program my first computer? The problem is that I went through it over and over it for years, not going to do any longer. A lot of wasted time only to have to start all over again. I bet he wouldn't do it again either. I have the sense now to have patience and wait till the product I want arrives on the market. Besides if you would have read the entire post you will see I have already got it, just want to do it a little cheaper, and have an offer on the market people will buy by the millions, rather than a few thousand a day, if they are doing that well? Again, I just want to explain that they could do much better with just a little more effort.

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Re: 4 Rpi's

Fri Nov 08, 2013 11:20 pm

The pre-loaded OS card has been available for several months now, it is called "NOOBS" believe it or not. It was introduced in a blog post here in June 2013. You only get a "bare" Pi with no OS if you pay the base price. For an additional $5 you get a 8 GB SD card with several different OS options already loaded in. Around here that is about the price of a sandwich. Unless you have extra cards lying around, you'd probably spend at least a few $ to buy a blank SD card anyway.

"The Raspberry Pi uses Linux-kernel based operating systems. ArchLinux, OpenElEC, Fedora, RaspBMC, Raspian and RiscOS are now bundled with the Raspberry Pi. "

Raspberry Pi Model B Board with 8GB O/S Card $39.99 http://www.mcmelectronics.com/product/83-15499
Raspberry Pi Model A Board and 8GB O/S Card $29.99 http://www.mcmelectronics.com/product/83-15500

Interesting about the iPads for students- I gather those cost $768 each. As far as I know, schools don't let the kids take them home. Needless to say the R-Pi is different from an iPad in just about every way... one being that it is cheap enough to be the kid's own personal property, even including hardware hacking, etc.

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Re: 4 Rpi's

Fri Nov 08, 2013 11:42 pm

This whole thread has "concern troll" written all over it.
And some folks need to stop being fanboys and see the forest behind the trees.

(One of the best lines I've seen on this board lately)

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Re: 4 Rpi's

Fri Nov 08, 2013 11:57 pm

Here they allow them to bring them home. If not the Ipad - a notebook. They do homework on them. Parents have to pay insurance on them. Besides that you can get a notebook here for $150, and a desktop basically anywhere for a few dollars, not new.
Anyway, yes you can buy a Rpi with the OS on the SD card from that supplier, however, if you want it something different you have to do it yourself. Again, they need to sell all of the available software on SD cards, just not the Basic OS. Or what they call "NOOB" at present. Do any of you know where there is a single place that someone can look for, other than going through forums to find them, that have all of the custom operating systems for the Rpi? The answer is "No" hard to even find one on a Google search. Apple has a place, Android has a place. Why not Rpi? Again, my comment was only added to help increase the uses of the Rpi, and return help it to sell better. It should be doing much better than what it is. You know I have never seen an Android TV stick advertised, only the phones, but they are selling much better than the Rpi, with many more options and for less of a cost. It is not that the software is better etc... Rpi developers have built the Apps for the Android, and they exist, the problem is getting them on the Rpi. Think about it!!!

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Re: 4 Rpi's

Sat Nov 09, 2013 12:01 am

Joe Schmoe wrote:This whole thread has "concern troll" written all over it.
No troll here my friend. I have been around long before the Rpi was ever sold. Sorry I am just telling you that things could be better and I am expressing my opinion. Maybe I am trying to make things a little better for the Rpi.

Oh and just to add,
Ebay = 9,695 results for android tv (less expensive with all of the bells and whistles).
Ebay = 2,017 results for raspberry pi (mainly for add-ons and cases)
Ebay = 8 results for raspberry pi os (and only one download option in the US. All of the rest are international sellers).

Just showing you the way it is.

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Re: 4 Rpi's

Sat Nov 09, 2013 9:15 am

Signs wrote:Here they allow them to bring them home. If not the Ipad - a notebook. They do homework on them. Parents have to pay insurance on them. Besides that you can get a notebook here for $150, and a desktop basically anywhere for a few dollars, not new.
Anyway, yes you can buy a Rpi with the OS on the SD card from that supplier, however, if you want it something different you have to do it yourself. Again, they need to sell all of the available software on SD cards, just not the Basic OS. Or what they call "NOOB" at present. Do any of you know where there is a single place that someone can look for, other than going through forums to find them, that have all of the custom operating systems for the Rpi? The answer is "No" hard to even find one on a Google search. Apple has a place, Android has a place. Why not Rpi? Again, my comment was only added to help increase the uses of the Rpi, and return help it to sell better. It should be doing much better than what it is. You know I have never seen an Android TV stick advertised, only the phones, but they are selling much better than the Rpi, with many more options and for less of a cost. It is not that the software is better etc... Rpi developers have built the Apps for the Android, and they exist, the problem is getting them on the Rpi. Think about it!!!
No, I don't think we need to think about it. Because we already have. There are going on 2M Raspi's out there now, the profits the Foundation has made from those sales is going to producing better software to run on the Raspi - Weston/Wayland, Scratch etc are all being improved to make the whole experience better. Note that you cannot do this stuff without MONEY, something the Foundation didn't have when they first started selling.

As for 'something different, do it yourself' - GREAT - exactly what the device is for - get people interested, then get them learning - don't hand them everything on a plate. You simply don't learn well that way.

As for your other points, you don't seem to have been paying attention/researching enough - a lot of what you want/suggest is already available. NOOBS provided multiple OS on one install for example.

As for Android sticks>? Why on earth would the Foundation - a charity dedicated to teaching computer use and programming, what to design and sell something like that, which doesn't tick any boxes when it comes to learning whatsoever. You seem to be confusing two entirely different products.
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Re: 4 Rpi's

Sat Nov 09, 2013 10:11 am

Somebody said:
No troll here my friend.
Followed by:
I have been around long before the Rpi was ever sold.
But I fail to see what one has to do with the other...
And some folks need to stop being fanboys and see the forest behind the trees.

(One of the best lines I've seen on this board lately)

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Re: 4 Rpi's

Sat Nov 09, 2013 12:13 pm

How can you even compare an Android consumer device with a Raspberry Pi development board. You are talking about two completely different products for two completely different audiences.
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Re: 4 Rpi's

Sat Nov 09, 2013 6:49 pm

The OP does have a point about trying to give away RasPii. I have had exactly the same experience. The kid had an iPhone, so did not want something, that he would have to invest a bit of work into.

That is where there might be a problem. The way that might be solved is by kits, which are available. An arcade console kit, or the multimedia kit from Element14, or a robotics kit, or a web server kit, but a RasPi with nothing is a hard sell to a kid with a smart phone!

On idea that could catch on is a RasPi only social remote network through a web network. Basically a social version of torrents. The "conversations" stored locally but attached remotely. It would give the social connections they seem to need, to be interested in, and the impetus to work with the hardware to make it all work. This would also allow them the customization that they all feel a need for also.

They would be able to remote in with their phones to keep up. Maybe write their own app for it. They would also be able to set it up to use directly when at home.

On the other hand not every kid needs to be a programmer, not yet!
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Re: 4 Rpi's

Sun Nov 10, 2013 1:01 am

Signs wrote:
Heater wrote:Signs

The Raspberry Pi is obviously not the machine for you.

You are not interested and you do not have the time to bother with it.

Why complain about it? Why not just buy whatever else it is you want?
I am not complaining about it, I just think that it could be a whole lot more with just a little help from the foundation--As in selling the SD cards with OS's already installed to perform various tasks. I think it would increase sales dramatically.
If you want a linux based OS you can buy a NOOBs preloaded SD Card for a few dollars, if you want RISC OS you can buy an official preloaded RISC OS SD Card from ROOL (the orginization that maintains RISC OS) for 10 British Pounds plus P&P. So you are asking for someting that has already been done.
RPi = The best ARM based RISC OS computer around
More than 95% of posts made from RISC OS on RPi 1B/1B+ computers. Most of the rest from RISC OS on RPi 2B/3B/3B+ computers

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Re: 4 Rpi's

Sun Nov 10, 2013 9:10 am

Lob0426 wrote:The OP does have a point about trying to give away RasPii. I have had exactly the same experience. The kid had an iPhone, so did not want something, that he would have to invest a bit of work into.

That is where there might be a problem. The way that might be solved is by kits, which are available. An arcade console kit, or the multimedia kit from Element14, or a robotics kit, or a web server kit, but a RasPi with nothing is a hard sell to a kid with a smart phone!

On idea that could catch on is a RasPi only social remote network through a web network. Basically a social version of torrents. The "conversations" stored locally but attached remotely. It would give the social connections they seem to need, to be interested in, and the impetus to work with the hardware to make it all work. This would also allow them the customization that they all feel a need for also.

They would be able to remote in with their phones to keep up. Maybe write their own app for it. They would also be able to set it up to use directly when at home.

On the other hand not every kid needs to be a programmer, not yet!
I'm not sure that's anything the Foundation can do anything about though - if someone simply isn't interested, they simple are not interested. There will always be a large percentage of the population who simply have no interest whatsoever - the difficult bit is getting the remainder going.
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Re: 4 Rpi's

Sun Nov 10, 2013 3:05 pm

I'm not sure that's anything the Foundation can do anything about though - if someone simply isn't interested, they simple are not interested. There will always be a large percentage of the population who simply have no interest whatsoever - the difficult bit is getting the remainder going.
I am not sure I agree with you about that. Maybe the Foundation should look into some alternative options. The Rpi is a great learning tool. It can be so much more with just a little innovation, and get in the hands of many more children to learn programming. In my opinion, please don't jump on me again, is that at present the whole selling system is targeted for adults, not children. It is up to the adult to download the software etc... And then the adult has to sell the child with what it can do. The real thing is that this is not just an adults toy, or tool, it crosses the boundaries of not only being a tool, but to to being a toy, also. If anyway possible the foundation should look at toys like the erector set, and also Lego. Maybe even into model trains, remote control planes etc... The companies that produce these types of items would love to you hear from you I am sure. I am saying basically any toy that the Rpi will fit into or with. The Rpi Foundation is something great, and really I would have thought by this time that many industries would have adapted the Rpi for many things, and the Rpi should be setting in about every retailer that exists. I have not seen this. The Rpi foundation is in the best place it can be. Now I have seen comments about putting in a bigger processor so it will do more. Again, my opinion it is the ideal speed etc... Increasing the processor size or even increasing the memory is something that is not going to help. (If it could be done to reduce cost of the unit, or not at an additional cost, by all means do it). By doing this may increase sales of the unit for a little while but not over a long time. This Universal computer possibilities have not been touched yet, something that does so much with so little. I am sure the foundation is perfectly aware of what it can do, and really most users. Get out the software to show what it can do, and make it easy to get and use at the very least, so a 7 year old can do it without an adults help. Just build a downloader so the the file will go directly to the SD card, that does it all. - Formats the card, and downloads any image to the SD card that will work on any system. You are almost there with the Noob images, but it should be able to be used with all images. Maybe even charge a couple of dollars for the downloader. Something I was taught my entire life is "KISS". I am in no way criticizing the Rpi, and I have seen it in the real world. I sit back and think on how many possibilities this little computer can be used for, and they are endless. I am just offering suggestions on what I think could help in getting children and adults alike to use the Rpi with a much larger following.
Think about this on the packaging of a toy. This is just an instance.
"Did you know that this talking doll (automated doll )uses a Computer named the Raspberry Pi? Did you know it is capable of doing many more functions than just being used for this purpose? and go on and explain the Foundation and what it does and what the computer can do etc... with the link to Raspberry Pi. Anyone remember "Teddy Ruxpin"? :)

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Re: 4 Rpi's

Sun Nov 10, 2013 5:55 pm

jamesh wrote:
I'm not sure that's anything the Foundation can do anything about though - if someone simply isn't interested, they simple are not interested. There will always be a large percentage of the population who simply have no interest whatsoever - the difficult bit is getting the remainder going.
The social network not specifically aimed at the foundation more at the community. The overall goal would be to get a "lazy" kid to look at the Raspberry Pi.

The kits are something that should be looked at. They would help the overall goals of the foundation, in my opinion.

A bare board has less appeal than a working robot!
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Re: 4 Rpi's

Sun Nov 10, 2013 7:05 pm

Lob0426 wrote:
jamesh wrote:
I'm not sure that's anything the Foundation can do anything about though - if someone simply isn't interested, they simple are not interested. There will always be a large percentage of the population who simply have no interest whatsoever - the difficult bit is getting the remainder going.
The social network not specifically aimed at the foundation more at the community. The overall goal would be to get a "lazy" kid to look at the Raspberry Pi.

The kits are something that should be looked at. They would help the overall goals of the foundation, in my opinion.

A bare board has less appeal than a working robot!
The foundation say's they have sold over 2 million of the Raspberry Pi. I don't doubt that, however, I would be willing to bet there are few hundreds of thousands sitting on the distributors shelves, that they have sold them to. Its is sad when you have a difficult time of giving them away to someone that would appreciate it. My opinion is to put them into real world operations such is toys. Also, sell kits for them. When I was a youngster, and had something that died, I could wait to get into it and try to fix it. Wow, if was able to be fixed easily by me, that was a real plus. If not it went into the garbage. Even when the first desktops arrived, it was an adventure to upgrade them, build them etc... You could learn that from the internet or by someone else easily. Now, coding is much different for my still young but feeble mind. The average person needs to learn coding, no matter what age they are. If you are able and have the time to teach it, a Rpi is a good tool to teach with. Other than that you might as well give a kid a blackboard and a piece of chalk. They would learn more.
Maybe I do have it wrong, but here in the United States you can find a decent fast computer that will work for that same $35. It will not be new, but usable, to at least run Ubuntu. What am I missing? Is there places in third world countries that have programmers and cannot afford a computer? I don't think so much. You will have to have someone with programming knowledge to teach them. Now at the same time are there places in the world that could use a computer to perform basic automation needs? I am sure, millions of places with millions of uses. I would like to see a picture of a classroom of children setting behind a desks learning how to code on Rpis'. Not going to happen, because the monitor cost more than the Rpi. If they could afford the monitor, they would be using better computers. Again repeating what you believe is that kits are a way to go, but also, including them in toys or other appliances also, that can use them. Even on Liz's blog it shows children, with the help of their parent, building something, and that is only for one use at a time. So yes kits are a viable option. There are 315 million people in the United States alone. How many programmers are there that know how to do and will teach programming? Maybe 1 million if we are lucky, and I doubt that many throughout the world. So, Raspberry Pi Foundation do your job, and either build things that actually teach, and not just something that requires someone to be taught or teach themselves. We need programmers. PERIOD!!! If you don't make it interesting to kids, it ain't going to happen.

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Re: 4 Rpi's

Sun Nov 10, 2013 7:25 pm

Signs wrote: So, Raspberry Pi Foundation do your job, and either build things that actually teach, and not just something that requires someone to be taught or teach themselves. We need programmers. PERIOD!!! If you don't make it interesting to kids, it ain't going to happen.
I don't think The Foundation are doing anything wrong. They've created the most exciting piece of computer hardware I've seen in thirty years. They've created a support organisation and this user community. They've created a regularly published users magazine. Google for "Raspberry Pi" and you get millions of hits.

Quit moaning.
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Re: 4 Rpi's

Sun Nov 10, 2013 8:40 pm

I don't think The Foundation are doing anything wrong. They've created the most exciting piece of computer hardware I've seen in thirty years. They've created a support organisation and this user community. They've created a regularly published users magazine. Google for "Raspberry Pi" and you get millions of hits.

Quit moaning.
I am just trying to make things better for them, to be able to extend their mission. Of course I am moaning because the squeaky wheel gets the grease. For you is a programmer it is great. How many people have you taught programming with it? You think by posting something on the internet is teaching and it is not, so you cannot include that, and I already know the answer. For me an idiot in programming, it has no value at all. Just an expense. Honestly I Google Raspberry Pi nearly everyday, and look and read articles about it. The reason they started is to provide a computer to teach programming with. This is not so, it is only used so experienced programmers (like you) can use them and show what amazing things they can do. It would be like me selling you a ratchet wrench and telling you that you are now able to be a mechanic, because you can use it to teach yourself how to work on machinery. Oh, and if you want a socket for that ratchet you will need to hunt it down, file it down so it will fit, and be able to attach it. Don't worry I will send you instructions on how to do that, however, I didn't write them, so I am not sure they will be correct. If you can't do that, you should not have bought the ratchet. And at least on the back end of that, when you were through with it, I bet you could find a kid that would actually take it and use it. This is my last comment. I have proven myself too stupid to become a programmer, and the children that live around me, have smart phones and Ipads and a computer at home, so they are garbage to them, also. It is sad when you cannot even give something away. Can't even buy an app or a program for it to make work for something useful. At least I know when to quit. I will just buy the end product, because they are much less expensive in the long run and give me instant gratification. Just like one of the articles I read. Bye,Bye Raspberry Pi, you now sit in the bottom of my rubbish bin. And that article was written by a Ham radio operator. So, in my opinion is that don't buy it unless you know how to use it to begin with, or have someone around that you know can teach you how to use it. Even at that, personally I would recommend a tablet or notebook. Call me a troll if you want, call me anything you desire, but I speak the truth!!!

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Re: 4 Rpi's

Sun Nov 10, 2013 9:14 pm

Signs wrote:
I don't think The Foundation are doing anything wrong. They've created the most exciting piece of computer hardware I've seen in thirty years. They've created a support organisation and this user community. They've created a regularly published users magazine. Google for "Raspberry Pi" and you get millions of hits.

Quit moaning.
I am just trying to make things better for them, to be able to extend their mission. Of course I am moaning because the squeaky wheel gets the grease. For you is a programmer it is great. How many people have you taught programming with it? You think by posting something on the internet is teaching and it is not, so you cannot include that, and I already know the answer. For me an idiot in programming, it has no value at all. Just an expense. Honestly I Google Raspberry Pi nearly everyday, and look and read articles about it. The reason they started is to provide a computer to teach programming with. This is not so, it is only used so experienced programmers (like you) can use them and show what amazing things they can do. It would be like me selling you a ratchet wrench and telling you that you are now able to be a mechanic, because you can use it to teach yourself how to work on machinery. Oh, and if you want a socket for that ratchet you will need to hunt it down, file it down so it will fit, and be able to attach it. Don't worry I will send you instructions on how to do that, however, I didn't write them, so I am not sure they will be correct. If you can't do that, you should not have bought the ratchet. And at least on the back end of that, when you were through with it, I bet you could find a kid that would actually take it and use it. This is my last comment. I have proven myself too stupid to become a programmer, and the children that live around me, have smart phones and Ipads and a computer at home, so they are garbage to them, also. It is sad when you cannot even give something away. Can't even buy an app or a program for it to make work for something useful. At least I know when to quit. I will just buy the end product, because they are much less expensive in the long run and give me instant gratification. Just like one of the articles I read. Bye,Bye Raspberry Pi, you now sit in the bottom of my rubbish bin. And that article was written by a Ham radio operator. So, in my opinion is that don't buy it unless you know how to use it to begin with, or have someone around that you know can teach you how to use it. Even at that, personally I would recommend a tablet or notebook. Call me a troll if you want, call me anything you desire, but I speak the truth!!!
Sorry, this post is full of inaccuracies.

1) The Raspi has value for YOU an idiot (your words). You can do loads of stuff with it without programming AT ALL. Run OpenELEC, do timelapse photography, use it as a web browser, email client, web server. Non of these things require programming expertise. They DO however require some gumption on behalf of the user - there's not such things as a free lunch (which is what you appear to want). At some point you will have to learn something by actually, you know, doing some research. Just like my son, aged 11, is having to do at school. He is responsible for researching all sorts for the various subjects he is learning.
2) There are many 'apps' available for the Rapsi that make it useful -almost the entire Linux 'back catalogue'. If someone cannot find something in there to peek their interest, well, sorry, but that shows a distinct lack of imagination.
3) The PI is NOT an end product, never has been never will be. If you bought it for that then you bought the wrong product. There are lots of end products out there. The problem is, there could be more, but there are not enough people who are capable of making end products around - that part of which the Pi is intended to help with. A tablet or notebook is an END PRODUCT. Who do you think writes the software on those END PRODUCTS? Not people who use tablets and notebooks, but the people who are capable of looking at a Raspi and making it do something.
4) You don't speak the truth. You speak what you think. What you think is wrong. Sorry, but that's the problem here - you are talking from your own fantastically limited experience. Which may be relevant in your particular circle, but is not globally relevant. Jut because you (and by the look of it the people round you) are incapable of learning something from the Raspi, don't paint the whole world as incapable too.

You attitude is EXACTLY the attitude the Raspi is designed to stop. The attitude of users, rather than makers. If everyone is a consumer, there are no producers. And nothing for the consumers to consume. I thank [insert deity of choice] that there are people out there who DONT have your attitude. Those are the people who produced the smartphone, the WWW, SpaceX, who develop new drugs, and generally make the world a better place.
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Re: 4 Rpi's

Sun Nov 10, 2013 9:30 pm

What’s a Raspberry Pi?
The Raspberry Pi is a credit-card sized computer that plugs into your TV and a keyboard. It’s a capable little PC which can be used for many of the things that your desktop PC does, like spreadsheets, word-processing and games. It also plays high-definition video. We want to see it being used by kids all over the world to learn programming.

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DougieLawson
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Re: 4 Rpi's

Sun Nov 10, 2013 10:14 pm

Signs wrote:For you is a programmer it is great. How many people have you taught programming with it? You think by posting something on the internet is teaching and it is not, so you cannot include that, and I already know the answer. For me an idiot in programming, it has no value at all. Just an expense. Honestly I Google Raspberry Pi nearly everyday, and look and read articles about it. The reason they started is to provide a computer to teach programming with. This is not so, it is only used so experienced programmers (like you) can use them and show what amazing things they can do. It would be like me selling you a ratchet wrench and telling you that you are now able to be a mechanic, because you can use it to teach yourself how to work on machinery.
Signs wrote:What’s a Raspberry Pi?
The Raspberry Pi is a credit-card sized computer that plugs into your TV and a keyboard. It’s a capable little PC which can be used for many of the things that your desktop PC does, like spreadsheets, word-processing and games. It also plays high-definition video. We want to see it being used by kids all over the world to learn programming.
I have a mission to teach the world about databases and how to enjoy them (for my day job). That now includes the 18 to 21yr olds who are doing computer science at Uni and want to get involved with that dinosaur of hardware the IBM Mainframe. I've encouraged some of those folks to look at the RPI just last week. I have a 13yr old in high school and he's starting to get a chance to try some programming at school. (He came home one night and showed me how to write a program in python.) When I've done a good job of that then I can retire. I can bask in the knowledge that my apprentices can take over running the large systems for the banks, for the insurance companies and suchlike.

With the RPi I'm giving away my time for free, it's fun, it's something different, it's something that makes me think. I also have to try to remember to pitch things at the right technical level for the folks I'm corresponding with on here and not blind them with science.

I've been on this forum since June and a bit busier recently. Give me a new, novice user (I hate those terms noob, noobie, newbie - we were all there once) with a problem that appears to be insurmountable and providing they can give a good description of what they're trying or where they're failing I'll have a punt at fixing it. I'm not out to show what amazing things I can do (that's pointless), I'm out to show that the Raspberry Pi and it's collection of operating systems isn't rocket science and isn't something to be scared of and that most problems have a solution (although some may need to be referred to the Foundation). The RPi, mostly, isn't beyond the realms of anyone from six years old to 100 years old.

There's a whole bunch of jargon (which we have to kick our way through) and understanding that can be a bit of a learning curve (it's from the days when we kept mainframes and systems programmers in windowless basements). And unlike the bullshit bingo from IT management we need to get away from calling a fan an "air movement device" or "AMD" and back to calling it a fan. Computing may have been in the realms of an elite but it's not like that today. The plus side is that we don't wrap our jargon in Latin (like medicine) but it can appear that way.

Lots of stuff has already been done (on Linux) and has been ported to the RPi and with some problems it's often a case of giving the forum users a pointer or a simple sequence of commands to get them on and running. If I still had that mainframe in the basement view of the world I'd want to keep computing special and stop all these muggles getting their hands on the RPi. If we didn't get the RPi we'd still be teaching kids not about programming but about how to be a Microsoft Office products end-user.

I think Eben Upton and the foundation members deserve a medal from HMQ in the New Years Honours List. They've added one of the critical missing pieces to computing in the 21st century. It is so unlike a PC that it's in no way comparable. You don't get I/O pins on a PC, you don't have to provide your own keyboard / mouse / wifi dongle / power supply / SDCard with a PC. It's in no way designed to do the same job as my Win8.1 laptop. But you also don't get to play on the bare metal processor (which isn't something I've tried).

I think you're wrong when you talk about not teaching. I'm teaching it just may not be labelled that way.
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Re: 4 Rpi's

Sun Nov 10, 2013 11:16 pm

Signs, I'm sorry you're not getting much out of your Raspberry Pis. They aren't for everyone, but they aren't just for learning how to program. I use mine to learn about electronics and build little projects. They take about an hour or two to do, and I tear them down when I'm done, but it makes me happy to be doing them.

Anyway, I'm not a kid, and I'm not poor, but I will happily pay for shipping to take them off your hands if you're still looking to give them away. If you aren't willing to give them away, maybe we could talk about a reasonable price?
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