nelsondre
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Can i release a modified version of raspberry pi

Sun Oct 06, 2013 9:11 am

As you know people there are two models of raspberry pi first the model A with 256mb ram & the mobel B with 512 mb ram.My question is that can I make a modified version of raspberry pi such as mobel C or B1 and release it under my name or it would need for me to contact raspberry pi and obtain some rights or pay royalty charges. Please help me people,thanks in advance :D

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DeeJay
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Re: Can i release a modified version of raspberry pi

Sun Oct 06, 2013 9:21 am

See http://www.raspberrypi.org/trademark-rules in the first instance. Then if needed use the email address provided there to follow up with the Raspberry Pi Foundation.

There is a lot of interest in a more advanced model with better CPU and more RAM - you might be on to a winner...
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Re: Can i release a modified version of raspberry pi

Sun Oct 06, 2013 9:44 am

DeeJay wrote:See http://www.raspberrypi.org/trademark-rules in the first instance. Then if needed use the email address provided there to follow up with the Raspberry Pi Foundation.

There is a lot of interest in a more advanced model with better CPU and more RAM - you might be on to a winner...
Although a better CPU and more RAM, and you a completley new machine, not a modified Raspi...

In fact, the trademark rules apply to things like software and documents, webpages etc. Not sure the same rules apply to the board itself. You certainly wont be able to design new board and sell it with the Raspi name.
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DavidS
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Re: Can i release a modified version of raspberry pi

Sun Oct 06, 2013 10:38 am

nelsondre wrote:As you know people there are two models of raspberry pi first the model A with 256mb ram & the mobel B with 512 mb ram.My question is that can I make a modified version of raspberry pi such as mobel C or B1 and release it under my name or it would need for me to contact raspberry pi and obtain some rights or pay royalty charges. Please help me people,thanks in advance :D
In order to be even remotely RPi compatable you would need to use the same SoC, and that limits you to an absolute maximum of 768MB of RAM, and the same other limits as the current RPi. As such what kind of modifications???

And I am pretty sure that you would not be able to use the Raspberry Pi trademark.
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Re: Can i release a modified version of raspberry pi

Sun Oct 06, 2013 11:29 am

DavidS wrote:
nelsondre wrote:As you know people there are two models of raspberry pi first the model A with 256mb ram & the mobel B with 512 mb ram.My question is that can I make a modified version of raspberry pi such as mobel C or B1 and release it under my name or it would need for me to contact raspberry pi and obtain some rights or pay royalty charges. Please help me people,thanks in advance :D
In order to be even remotely RPi compatable you would need to use the same SoC, and that limits you to an absolute maximum of 768MB of RAM, and the same other limits as the current RPi. As such what kind of modifications???

And I am pretty sure that you would not be able to use the Raspberry Pi trademark.
512MB is the largest available PoP RAM package that fits on a Raspi - that's the current limitation.
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Re: Can i release a modified version of raspberry pi

Sun Oct 06, 2013 12:59 pm

What else can be done to modify a RPi except for chopping off connectors or maybe changing out the 3V3 regulator to a switching type to save power?
Unless specified otherwise my response is based on the latest and fully updated Raspbian Buster w/ Desktop OS.

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Re: Can i release a modified version of raspberry pi

Sun Oct 06, 2013 1:43 pm

klricks wrote:What else can be done to modify a RPi except for chopping off connectors or maybe changing out the 3V3 regulator to a switching type to save power?
I can think of a few things, but I'd be wary of turning this thread into yet another "Next Pi" thread.

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Re: Can i release a modified version of raspberry pi

Sun Oct 06, 2013 2:59 pm

rpdom wrote:
klricks wrote:What else can be done to modify a RPi except for chopping off connectors or maybe changing out the 3V3 regulator to a switching type to save power?
I can think of a few things, but I'd be wary of turning this thread into yet another "Next Pi" thread.
I cannot think of much you can do when modifying the board (as opposed to building anew one). As above, connectors, regulators, SD card slot sort of stuff. Nothing 'electronic'.
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Oakham
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Re: Can i release a modified version of raspberry pi

Sun Oct 06, 2013 4:04 pm

As stated several times there are other products which fulfill the requirements one would want of a modified Pi !
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Re: Can i release a modified version of raspberry pi

Sun Oct 06, 2013 4:49 pm

DavidS wrote: In order to be even remotely RPi compatable you would need to use the same SoC, and that limits you to an absolute maximum of 768MB of RAM, and the same other limits as the current RPi. As such what kind of modifications???
Not really. The Cubieboard--using an Allwinner A10 (ARMv7)--can run Raspbian, and that makes it "compatible" for most practical purposes. It has 1GB or RAM as well. (I don't know where you get that 768MB...)
And I am pretty sure that you would not be able to use the Raspberry Pi trademark.
Trademarks apply to names (e.g. "Raspberry Pi") and symbols (e.g. the logo used by the RPF), so, yeah, a new board design couldn't be designated as a "Raspberry Pi' regardless of how it was built without at least the permission of the RPF and any attempt to do so without permission would be actionable.

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Re: Can i release a modified version of raspberry pi

Sun Oct 06, 2013 5:14 pm

W. H. Heydt wrote:The Cubieboard--using an Allwinner A10 (ARMv7)--can run Raspbian, and that makes it "compatible" for most practical purposes. It has 1GB or RAM as well. (I don't know where you get that 768MB...)
Exactly, so in essence this is a thinly disguised I want a RasPi C thread...
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Re: Can i release a modified version of raspberry pi

Sun Oct 06, 2013 5:20 pm

Running Raspian is only part of being "Pi compatible". And I would say if you have a processor that will handle regualar ARM Debian it might be better to go with Debian.

When people find their GPIO is different, there is no rasp-config, omxplayer does not work, the GPU demos don't work, the whole boot up system is different and so on and so on then they will realize they don't have a raspi and a ton of advice about such things that has accumulated here on the forums for two years is useless and they are all alone with their new toy :(

What I want to know is "Even if one did take the raspi schematic and make modifications and additions to it how is one going to get the thing manufactured? Welding that Soc with it's PoP memory on to a board is not an operation every board house can do. It would take some considerable investment to get started manufacturing that modified Pi with no guarantee of a return. All in all a risk I would not want to take.
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nelsondre
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Re: Can i release a modified version of raspberry pi

Sun Oct 06, 2013 6:37 pm

Thanks people for replying but I meant installing some extra ram ,reducing the size factor and a bit. of a modified custom is designed by me.by the way there is no such limitation as 768mb ram,the recently debut steambox has 16gb ram and the same circuit size as that of raspberry pi,as long as to hardware modifications there are no limitations. I would now better contact raspberry personally

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Re: Can i release a modified version of raspberry pi

Sun Oct 06, 2013 7:14 pm

None of what you desire is not possible with the standard Pi, therefore as you stated yourself you will be manufacturing something which already exists. Pi in the sky !
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Re: Can i release a modified version of raspberry pi

Sun Oct 06, 2013 7:22 pm

nelsondre,
I would now better contact raspberry personally.
I don't see why. There is no bigger RAM that fits on the Pi SoC PoP package. So you will be using a different ARM SoC.
That means what you are proposing to build is nothing to do with a Pi anymore.

I'm sure the Raspberry Pi Foundation would tell you much the same along with "Don't put our name on anything you make".
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Re: Can i release a modified version of raspberry pi

Sun Oct 06, 2013 7:30 pm

W. H. Heydt wrote:
DavidS wrote: In order to be even remotely RPi compatable you would need to use the same SoC, and that limits you to an absolute maximum of 768MB of RAM, and the same other limits as the current RPi. As such what kind of modifications???
Not really. The Cubieboard--using an Allwinner A10 (ARMv7)--can run Raspbian, and that makes it "compatible" for most practical purposes. It has 1GB or RAM as well. (I don't know where you get that 768MB...)
While the Cubieboard is capable of running Raspbian it is not compatable. The sock has different mappings for many things. If you look at the datasheet you will see why I say that 768MB is the limit.
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Re: Can i release a modified version of raspberry pi

Sun Oct 06, 2013 7:32 pm

jamesh wrote:
DeeJay wrote:See http://www.raspberrypi.org/trademark-rules in the first instance. Then if needed use the email address provided there to follow up with the Raspberry Pi Foundation.

There is a lot of interest in a more advanced model with better CPU and more RAM - you might be on to a winner...
Although a better CPU and more RAM, and you a completley new machine, not a modified Raspi...

In fact, the trademark rules apply to things like software and documents, webpages etc. Not sure the same rules apply to the board itself. You certainly wont be able to design new board and sell it with the Raspi name.
Ok that is true. You can not take advantage of the address space if you do not have the available part to do so.
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Re: Can i release a modified version of raspberry pi

Sun Oct 06, 2013 7:36 pm

nelsondre wrote:Thanks people for replying but I meant installing some extra ram ,reducing the size factor and a bit. of a modified custom is designed by me.by the way there is no such limitation as 768mb ram,the recently debut steambox has 16gb ram and the same circuit size as that of raspberry pi,as long as to hardware modifications there are no limitations. I would now better contact raspberry personally
Look at the datasheet. That is a different SoC, thus has nothing to do with the RPi.
The BCM2835 will only allow for up to 768MB of RAM with out using some very very dirty tricks.

So if you want to make something RPi compatable that does use some form of bank switching go ahead. If you want to use something like what the steambox uses using a different SoC than you can not use anything related to the design of the RPi.
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Re: Can i release a modified version of raspberry pi

Sun Oct 06, 2013 9:10 pm

I have no idea where you get 768MB from.
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Re: Can i release a modified version of raspberry pi

Sun Oct 06, 2013 10:51 pm

Heater wrote:Running Raspian is only part of being "Pi compatible". And I would say if you have a processor that will handle regualar ARM Debian it might be better to go with Debian.

When people find their GPIO is different, there is no rasp-config, omxplayer does not work, the GPU demos don't work, the whole boot up system is different and so on and so on then they will realize they don't have a raspi and a ton of advice about such things that has accumulated here on the forums for two years is useless and they are all alone with their new toy :(

What I want to know is "Even if one did take the raspi schematic and make modifications and additions to it how is one going to get the thing manufactured? Welding that Soc with it's PoP memory on to a board is not an operation every board house can do. It would take some considerable investment to get started manufacturing that modified Pi with no guarantee of a return. All in all a risk I would not want to take.
Let me restate it... for *my* practical purposes, the Cubieboard is compatible with the Pi. When you want to load Debian onto it, their downloadable bootloader (a version of Berryboot) loads Raspbian. Programs that I develop on a Pi run on a Cubie (though I do recompile them there using the same makefile). Since I don't do anything fancy with the GPU and don't use omxplayer, nor do I use GPIO pins, any incompatibilities there don't affect me.

However, I agree that calling anything that isn't identical to a Pi--same SoC, memory, LAN chip, I/O connectors, GPIO layout--a Pi is a complete non-starter and something the RPF should look seriously askance at.

I also have no idea what resources the OP has that he thinks he can build a "Pi+" whatever he calls it.

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Re: Can i release a modified version of raspberry pi

Sun Oct 06, 2013 11:04 pm

W. H. Heydt wrote: Let me restate it... for *my* practical purposes, the Cubieboard is compatible with the Pi. When you want to load Debian onto it, their downloadable bootloader (a version of Berryboot) loads Raspbian.
If that is true then someone needs to go beat the cubieboard developers with a cluebat*. Yes Raspbian will run on armv7 hardware but the only legitimate reason I can see to do so is as a build environment for producing raspbian packages.
Programs that I develop on a Pi run on a Cubie (though I do recompile them there using the same makefile). Since I don't do anything fancy with the GPU and don't use omxplayer, nor do I use GPIO pins, any incompatibilities there don't affect me.
Sure if you don't use any of the Pi specific features and treat your Pi as a generic linux box with USB, ethernet and a framebuffer things will mostly be portable though you will still likely have differences in display configuration and kernel/firmware upgrade processes.

* Metaphorically of course, I don't advocate physical violence against them.

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Re: Can i release a modified version of raspberry pi

Sun Oct 06, 2013 11:48 pm

jamesh wrote:I have no idea where you get 768MB from.
With the currently available POP solutions the limit is 512MB, though looking at the limited datasheet that we have (verry limited) it apears as though there is the available external address space of 768MB. This may very well be incorrect, though are datasheet is very limited.

Has the Datasheet been updated since febuary? Does a newer version contain better information on this issue?
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Re: Can i release a modified version of raspberry pi

Sun Oct 06, 2013 11:50 pm

640k should be enough for anybody.

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Re: Can i release a modified version of raspberry pi

Sun Oct 06, 2013 11:57 pm

W. H. Heydt wrote: Let me restate it... for *my* practical purposes, the Cubieboard is compatible with the Pi. When you want to load Debian onto it, their downloadable bootloader (a version of Berryboot) loads Raspbian.
So already you state that it is not compatable. If it were you would use the RPi binary blob and loader.

And do you think that Linux is the only OS on the RPi? It runs becaus Linux knows how to talk to the Cubieboard, and you are using there bootloader.
Programs that I develop on a Pi run on a Cubie (though I do recompile them there using the same makefile). Since I don't do anything fancy with the GPU and don't use omxplayer, nor do I use GPIO pins, any incompatibilities there don't affect me.
Yes but what about DexOS, RISC OS, Raspberry Pi BASIC (OS), Haiku OS? You see the OS needs to know how to talk to the HW. And this makes the Cubieboard completely incompatable with the RPi.
However, I agree that calling anything that isn't identical to a Pi--same SoC, memory, LAN chip, I/O connectors, GPIO layout--a Pi is a complete non-starter and something the RPF should look seriously askance at.
Yes or even attempting to say that it is compatible (I am not aware of any other SoC that is compatible).
I also have no idea what resources the OP has that he thinks he can build a "Pi+" whatever he calls it.
The only things that I could think of would be adding more on board external perriphials, other than that I would say that there is no room for expansion.
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Re: Can i release a modified version of raspberry pi

Mon Oct 07, 2013 12:00 am

OtherCrashOverride wrote:640k should be enough for anybody.
Yes Bill Gates the guru said so, thus it must be true. :) :lol:
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