gsh
Raspberry Pi Engineer & Forum Moderator
Raspberry Pi Engineer & Forum Moderator
Posts: 1570
Joined: Sat Sep 10, 2011 11:43 am

Re: Unreliable Unreliable Unreliable

Mon Sep 09, 2013 6:12 pm

So spent a bit of today setting up and SD card testing factory, 16 Pi's of various (somewhat dubious) origin, 16 SD cards (all the same Kingston ones at the moment) running Raspbian.

I've then set it up to boot into X (I know that's quite a bit of work for it) and then into my /etc/rc.login added the lines

sleep 30
reboot

Then when I power them up they continuously reboot...

Wasn't actually able to get it started before leaving today, but will see where I get tomorrow...


Gordon
--
Gordon Hollingworth PhD
Raspberry Pi - Director of Software Engineering

toxibunny
Posts: 1382
Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2011 9:21 pm

Re: Unreliable Unreliable Unreliable

Mon Sep 09, 2013 6:43 pm

is it possible OP has some weird power spike issues on his mains that affects the pi but not normal PCs? How would you test for that?
note: I may or may not know what I'm talking about...

limpens
Posts: 38
Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2012 1:15 pm

Re: Unreliable Unreliable Unreliable

Mon Sep 09, 2013 7:16 pm

gsh wrote:So spent a bit of today setting up and SD card testing factory, 16 Pi's of various (somewhat dubious) origin, 16 SD cards (all the same Kingston ones at the moment) running Raspbian.
...

Then when I power them up they continuously reboot...
...
Gordon
Gordon,

I've got a bunch Pi's (5+) and always use reboot -f and never saw corruption of my ext4 filesystem. This is with a mix of different brands sdcards.
What I'm saying, the OP talks about pulling the plug on his Pi, which probably is completely different than a reboot. You might want to change your setup so it drops the power for these PI's instead of using software to reboot them.

ps: I don't use raspbian but create my own kernel/fs

OtherCrashOverride
Posts: 582
Joined: Sat Feb 02, 2013 3:25 am

Re: Unreliable Unreliable Unreliable

Mon Sep 09, 2013 9:07 pm

gsh wrote:Then when I power them up they continuously reboot...
I would suggest writing a file of some arbitrary size from /dev/random before rebooting. Then erasing it on next reboot and repeating.

jdb
Raspberry Pi Engineer & Forum Moderator
Raspberry Pi Engineer & Forum Moderator
Posts: 2416
Joined: Thu Jul 11, 2013 2:37 pm

Re: Unreliable Unreliable Unreliable

Mon Sep 09, 2013 10:01 pm

OtherCrashOverride wrote: I would suggest writing a file of some arbitrary size from /dev/random before rebooting. Then erasing it on next reboot and repeating.
Oh don't worry, we'll wreck these SD cards one way or another.

We're going to be testing in rounds with slightly more aggressive behaviour as time goes on, hopefully culminating in power switching. Cards may break in a day, or a month. Time will tell.
Rockets are loud.
https://astro-pi.org

technoducky
Posts: 62
Joined: Sat Jan 26, 2013 7:29 pm
Contact: Website

Re: Unreliable Unreliable Unreliable

Mon Sep 16, 2013 1:14 pm

australisblue wrote:
technoducky wrote: The Pi was never designed to be used in production environments, it is supposed to be an educational tool.
If you use it expecting it to be a perfect 100% reliable embedded computing platform then you clearly did not know what you were buying when you bought 12 of them.
I would love to see this thread work towards solutions/improvements regardless of the original design intent of the device. I think it benefits everyone along with the Raspberry Pi cause in general to further improve something that's already pretty awesome :) I do think that in a lot of situations, shutting down the Pi cleanly is not always entirely practical. Whether this is even the problem having read through all these posts, I'm not sure. It sounds like the OP is having a worse time than most have experienced so it seems a good chance to learn what might be happening.
I completely understand what you mean, but the impression I get from this thread is that people are willing to help whereas the OP just seems to want to shout about his problems.
But I still stand by my point that an experienced embedded system designer who has had no problems using other ARM boards, deciding to use a Raspberry Pi in a product and deploying it without full testing is a little illogical.

More Pi Please
Posts: 50
Joined: Mon Jun 17, 2013 5:26 pm

Re: Unreliable Unreliable Unreliable

Mon Sep 16, 2013 11:00 pm

jonshouse wrote:
I need to know the exact sequence of things you did to reproduce the problem otherwise I may not see the same problem.
Ok, I will do that tommorow. I will download the installer again just in case and start from scratch making notes just to make sure.

Anyone else reading this please feel free to join in and try it .......

On the hardware front.

Looking at the Pi schematic you are assuming the SOC internal pullup is <=50k, I expect Broadcom claim it is but that does not make it so... Also it assumes the impediance is flat with voltage, maybe - maybe not..... personally I would try adding real 47k external pullups and turn the internal ones off in the firmware as my first test.... just me 2c worth. If I get some free time I will try adding some external pullups but the REAL test would be like I say, external pullups and turn the internal ones off.

Thanks,
Jon

I'm watching this thread with great interest. But wanted to ask if this comment has anything to do with possible instability with SD cards?

ALL my Pi's have a shutdown script that watches a pin state using the internal pullup resistor. (also restarting using P6 header)

Is there any connection between using internal pullups and SD card problems?

If I could trust my Pi's with SD cards it would be great :D

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