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Re: Create a desktop Raspberry Pi PC.

Posted: Mon Aug 29, 2011 2:13 pm
by hajj_3
I was wondering if you guys could create a board like the Pandaboard but with better specs and purchased in bulk would be cheap.

Specs to use:

Dual core 1.2ghz+
2GB/4GB lpddr3
16GB/32GB Nand flash (storage)
optical audio out
2xUSB3 ports
4-6xUSB2 ports
Bluetooth
802.11n
Gigabit ethernet
E-sata
Hmdi, dvi, vga, red/white/yellow
2x sata 2/3 ports
sdxc card reader integrated on the board so that card can be inserted in the case
headers such as jtag, serial etc

and have it come in a aluminium case with a power brick psu.

I reckon in bulk these may cost say £40 which would be a bargain for a fully fledged desktop linux pc with hardware accelerated 1080p and digital audio out.

I think the OMAP5 that is out next year will have loads of great things integrated in the chip such as dual gigabit lan, usb3, sdxc, bluetooth 4, 2xsata2 etc, LPDDR3 etc:



Nand flash and lpddr3 1333mhz are both extremely cheap now.

Re: Create a desktop Raspberry Pi PC.

Posted: Mon Aug 29, 2011 2:25 pm
by ShiftPlusOne
Are you being serious?

Re: Create a desktop Raspberry Pi PC.

Posted: Mon Aug 29, 2011 2:42 pm
by obarthelemy
Should I link that Madonna video again ?

Re: Create a desktop Raspberry Pi PC.

Posted: Mon Aug 29, 2011 2:57 pm
by abishur
While I certainly understand your desire to have an at cost top of the line PC rather than shelling out a thousand bucks for one... I think you need to read up some more on the website and get a better feel for what the scope and purpose of the r-pi actually is. You're kinda setting yourself up for disappointment with this, the things you've listed, they just aren't as cheap as you're making them out to be, not even in bulk I fear. The hardware for a gigabit port might cost under 50 cents in bulk, but what about the chip to drive it? And now that you're not using the LAN9512, you have to add another chip for your usb 3.0 AND another chip for USB 2.0. Plus the cost of VGA, a chip for sata, a chip for wifi/blutooth and now your board is so bloated and large you're up to a miniATX motherboard.

I honestly don't mean to be rude, it's just that you've seriously underestimate the cost of things to a mind boggling degree and it's caught me a little off guard. If you want/need the specs you've listed, the only thing I can suggest is to purchase a mini-ITX or micro-ATX board. Otherwise, the r-pi is what it is. We'll see some minor tweaking with the next revision, but I fear it will be no where close to the specs you're asking for here.

Re: Create a desktop Raspberry Pi PC.

Posted: Mon Aug 29, 2011 3:05 pm
by hajj_3
the pandaboard is rather small and has many of these functions. There are chips that have many functions in 1 such as wifi/gps/bluetooth etc.
The OMAP5 for example has gigabit and sata built-in, surely that means no need for a seperate chips for those?

I was meaning bulk of say 100,000 units not 1,000.

I'm aware of mini itx etc i was just hoping for a more powerful pandaboard with better onboard connections such as optical audio, usb3 etc.

Re: Create a desktop Raspberry Pi PC.

Posted: Mon Aug 29, 2011 3:25 pm
by Michael
As abishur outlined, Raspberry Pi's goals mean that is vanishingly unlikley that they'll decide to do something like a more powerful pandaboard any time soon. If you want a product that smells like a more powerful pandaboard, you would be much better off asking that community or related designsomething.org community to provide something based on OMAP5 with that featureset.

Re: Create a desktop Raspberry Pi PC.

Posted: Mon Aug 29, 2011 3:37 pm
by hajj_3
i agree its not raspberry pi's goal but in the future once arm15 processors are out those will have alot of built-in things like usb3, sata2, dual gigabit etc all on one chip. A board with the features that i suggested wouldn't cost too much in huge bulk.

Pandaboard's dual core 1.0ghz is nice but it doesn't have optical audio, usb3 etc and the main problem is the $174 pricetag.

Hoping that once the arm15 chips are out maybe raspberry pi guys might consider making a more desktop quality board and mass produce an aluminium case to go with it.

Re: Create a desktop Raspberry Pi PC.

Posted: Mon Aug 29, 2011 3:43 pm
by reggie
I wonder if you've missed the point of the raspberry pi? It's supposed to be cheap and aimed at educational learning, with a leaning towards 3rd/developing world countries, not a desktop replacement. Pretty much every extra feature you've named is pointless in this scenario. :)

Re: Create a desktop Raspberry Pi PC.

Posted: Mon Aug 29, 2011 3:44 pm
by liz
I think I can give you a definitive answer on this - no, we will not be building anything like the machine you mention. Sorry.

Re: Create a desktop Raspberry Pi PC.

Posted: Mon Aug 29, 2011 4:38 pm
by Svartalf
Quote from hajj_3 on August 29, 2011, 15:13
I was wondering if you guys could create a board like the Pandaboard but with better specs and purchased in bulk would be cheap.


I'm fairly sure they'll be doing a followon board for the OMAP5 just like they did with the OMAP3 and OMAP4 (Do keep in mind that it's a a sort of a TI based project to begin with... ;) )

Re: Create a desktop Raspberry Pi PC.

Posted: Mon Aug 29, 2011 4:44 pm
by jacklang
At a cost of something like 7 times that of an RP board

Re: Create a desktop Raspberry Pi PC.

Posted: Mon Aug 29, 2011 4:46 pm
by Svartalf
Quote from hajj_3 on August 29, 2011, 16:37
Pandaboard's dual core 1.0ghz is nice but it doesn't have optical audio, usb3 etc and the main problem is the $174 pricetag.


Heh...

1) The PandaBoard price is what it is because of the device in question on it.

2) Those things aren't on the board because the OMAP lineup is intended for mobile devices where there's less need for USB3, Optical Audio. Pretty much most of the mobile market's not there yet and only really Tegra had a PCIe edge on it. Marvell's PCIe capable part isn't shipping yet and it's designed for servers. If you're wanting these things, you're going to have to wait and see if KalEl (Tegra 3) has better expansion and they ship a dev board for it, TI's Sitara A9/A15 version ships with someone making a board for public consumption with it, or Marvell's 16-lane PCIe capable part ships on something.

3) That $179 pricetag's on the cheap with minimal markup. You are going to find that any device of this nature is going to weigh in at the $150-350 price range at this time. Partly because of the expense of the SoC's. Partly because you're not buying a mass-produced system like PC motherboards are- you're buying a prototyping board.

You're not going to find a miracle that gives you all of what you seek for any price less than a PandaBoard. Honestly. The R-Pi does a bunch of it on the cheap, but not nearly everything you're looking for- and it's because of that aspect of things that you're seeing a $25-35 price point depending on model for it.

Re: Create a desktop Raspberry Pi PC.

Posted: Mon Aug 29, 2011 10:20 pm
by Lob0426
For those kind of specs you are looking at this:
http://trimslice.com/web/
$199 for a barebone system to $319 for a full version.
And this is missing half of what you are asking for. I'm not sure my desktop has all of that.

Re: Create a desktop Raspberry Pi PC.

Posted: Tue Aug 30, 2011 12:27 am
by amiga65
Sounds like Your describing a nano-itx price and all.

Re: Create a desktop Raspberry Pi PC.

Posted: Tue Oct 18, 2011 4:26 pm
by jewesque
Quote from liz on August 29, 2011, 16:44
I think I can give you a definitive answer on this - no, we will not be building anything like the machine you mention. Sorry.

Liz, you have such a nice way of saying "NO! Now STFU!" :P

I think this goes back to a point I was making on Google+ the other day. There is a serious difference between literacy, the ability to read, and reading comprehension. I think some people are reading this site and some of the press info and they immediately think "Wow! A custom built high performance micro PC for $25!" and suddenly, they have a mile long wishlist... but all for under $50. Because, like, it should totally work that way!

Many of us more realistic persons here see the $25-35 pricetag and go "Wow! I wish I could have more, but that's still fantastic for the price and a great little toy to play with and build on!"

Even if the majority of these units go to the enthusiast community, I think that can only be a good thing. Enthusiasts in developed countries will develop more uses for this device, expansions, refine software, and that will make it only more useful to the project's intended audience. :)

Re: Create a desktop Raspberry Pi PC.

Posted: Tue Oct 18, 2011 4:52 pm
by emercer
Quote from jewesque on October 18, 2011, 17:26
Many of us more realistic persons here see the $25-35 pricetag and go "Wow! I wish I could have more, but that's still fantastic for the price and a great little toy to play with and build on!"


Actually, when I read the RasPi specs I go "Goshdarn, about 50 times the raw power of my Z-80 MSX for 1/16 of the price! Kids are gonna flip out!"

Re: Create a desktop Raspberry Pi PC.

Posted: Tue Oct 18, 2011 5:02 pm
by Josh
Quote from hajj_3 on August 29, 2011, 16:37
Pandaboard's dual core 1.0ghz is nice but it doesn't have optical audio, usb3 etc and the main problem is the $174 pricetag.


I just had to say this: the PandaBoard (from my experiences) is an absolute pile of dog $#17!

Re: Create a desktop Raspberry Pi PC.

Posted: Tue Oct 18, 2011 5:03 pm
by Josh
Quote from emercer on October 18, 2011, 17:52
Quote from jewesque on October 18, 2011, 17:26
Many of us more realistic persons here see the $25-35 pricetag and go "Wow! I wish I could have more, but that's still fantastic for the price and a great little toy to play with and build on!"


Actually, when I read the RasPi specs I go "Goshdarn, about 50 times the raw power of my Z-80 MSX for 1/16 of the price! Kids are gonna flip out!"

Nine year olds weren't born in the 80's... Silly silly... :P

Re: Create a desktop Raspberry Pi PC.

Posted: Tue Oct 18, 2011 7:49 pm
by jamesh
There are going to be some pretty interesting SoC out in the next couple of years from all the big manufacturers which are going to get near the spec of the OP I would think. But don't hold your breath - we are talking years > 2. Going to be pretty interesting!

Not sure OMAP5 will make out till Q3 next year (as mentioned by the OP), maybe later.

Re: Create a desktop Raspberry Pi PC.

Posted: Tue Oct 18, 2011 7:57 pm
by Chris
Quote from jewesque on October 18, 2011, 17:26
Quote from liz on August 29, 2011, 16:44
I think I can give you a definitive answer on this - no, we will not be building anything like the machine you mention. Sorry.

Liz, you have such a nice way of saying "NO! Now STFU!" :P

I think this goes back to a point I was making on Google+ the other day. There is a serious difference between literacy, the ability to read, and reading comprehension. I think some people are reading this site and some of the press info and they immediately think "Wow! A custom built high performance micro PC for $25!" and suddenly, they have a mile long wishlist... but all for under $50. Because, like, it should totally work that way!

Many of us more realistic persons here see the $25-35 pricetag and go "Wow! I wish I could have more, but that's still fantastic for the price and a great little toy to play with and build on!"

Even if the majority of these units go to the enthusiast community, I think that can only be a good thing. Enthusiasts in developed countries will develop more uses for this device, expansions, refine software, and that will make it only more useful to the project's intended audience. :)

I see the low price tag and think, "how the [scep: edit for language] can they do that at that price?" shortly followed by "how can I make it better for my use? Lightweight PC, Low Power Media System, House COntrol Unit ( Lights, TV, Heating Ect ) " then the most important....

"How many of these do I need to buy as I am bound to burn them out "

Re: Create a desktop Raspberry Pi PC.

Posted: Tue Oct 18, 2011 9:44 pm
by Bacan
As I remember being told by one designer:

First chip that works costs [insert huge dollar amount]; second working chip and beyond, just pennies to pay the cost of sand, plastic and wires.

Re: Create a desktop Raspberry Pi PC.

Posted: Wed Oct 19, 2011 4:13 am
by obarthelemy
@jamesh: The future will be better tomorrow !

Re: Create a desktop Raspberry Pi PC.

Posted: Sat Oct 29, 2011 6:10 pm
by na1pir
If you ask me R-pi is Arduino with twin turbo and much more, can't wait to get my hands dirty =)
All latest arm development boards are way too expensive for actually being useful as platform for learning and DIY small home projects.

Re: Create a desktop Raspberry Pi PC.

Posted: Sun Oct 30, 2011 1:23 am
by geeus
Quote from na1pir on October 29, 2011, 19:10
If you ask me R-pi is Arduino with twin turbo and much more, can't wait to get my hands dirty =)

Problem is that from what i can tell the ras-p will need to have some sort of buffer circuit on the gpio pins. which will be fun to build but just jumping into mcu projects will be trickier than expected. but it will be worth it with all the extra processing. (already thinking 3d printer with built in object designer).
regards
Gee

Re: Create a desktop Raspberry Pi PC.

Posted: Sun Jan 01, 2012 6:28 am
by qvinlove
A better way to handle everyone with high expectations for the rberri is to give them a board without all of the components and tell them to solder on all of their high power, high cost $#%!&[email protected] components.