AndrewdAzotus
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Re: Suggestions for version 3

Mon Aug 26, 2013 11:48 pm

Oakham wrote:
AndrewdAzotus wrote:Why would my current Pi become obsolete just because there is a new model with an ARMv7 SoC on it?

It will still run the released versions of Raspbian and Apache and everything else.

All the Linux commmands I know and love will still work.

My Model B Pi will not stop being used just because I have a new model...
Would the community still want to support ARMv6 ?
Does much conversion need to be done? Isn't it just a case of the source being recompiled? Or am I being too naive?

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Re: Suggestions for version 3

Tue Aug 27, 2013 1:42 am

Oakham wrote:
abishur wrote:Hopefully if we do see a Rev3 with the education release this and the USB port will be addressed, but even if they're not, while being annoying they're not show stoppers.
Would not a USB GPIO expansion board overcome the USB issue ???
Did I miss that suggestion in this conversion? I can't seem to find it so I'm not quite sure what you're referring to, regardless a USB GPIO board seems increadibly backwards. It would be an additional cost to have a seperate board and would remove funcationality that already exists, and unless it had the same couple ohm resistors and/or capacitor we would wind up with the exact same issue. Since the solution would be the same, it would seem ot make more sense to keep the USB on the board with just a low ohm resistor and/or capacitor. My personal preference is for both, but we're already spending the cash for the 0 ohm resistor so it at least makes sense to swap it out for a low ohm resistor.
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Re: Suggestions for version 3

Tue Aug 27, 2013 4:07 am

gritz wrote:Congratulations Jim, it's twins!

http://www.charitycommission.gov.uk/sea ... foundation

http://opencorporates.com/companies/gb/08207441

Who's to say that an "educational box set" would include the same hardware as the "consumer" version anyway?
Hi Gritz - You're confusing a private corporation necessarily being a for-profit corporation. A private corporation can be a non-profit corporation in the UK or the U.S. One thing a non-profit can't be is a public corporation with shareholders, though. I currently do mostly volunteer and a bit of paid work for three such non-profit entities, that's why I know something about this area. You may be aware that Eben has a Masters in Business Administration (MBA) as well as his PhD credentials in computer science, and the board has a pretty good business pedigree going back many years to provide very astute advice and consent for Foundation plans and execution. Of course, if you had asked any of them how many millions of Pii would be Out There by now, they would have laughed you out of the room two years ago. How much things can change in just a couple of very short years!

As for a "consumer" version, there can be no such thing from the Foundation, period. Why is this so difficult for so many people to understand? The Foundation is a non-profit corporation with a stated purpose of advancing education of the public. It simply cannot go into the business of manufacturing or producing anything that doesn't have a demonstrable educational purpose. The question of exactly what constitutes a demonstrable educational purpose is big enough to drive a tractor-trailer truck full of Pi boards through, of course! :lol:
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Re: Suggestions for version 3

Tue Aug 27, 2013 5:12 am

Heater wrote:W. H. Heydt,
Actually...try $50. !GHz, 1GB RAM, more GPIO pins (96, I think), line in, SATA, otg USB (in addtion to 2 USB). Just hunt around a bit.
Please name that board and tell me where I can get one at that price.

But really is that the point? If you need a gig of RAM or 96 I/O pins or SATA or whatever you can get it from many places. Whatever you need to pay you will pay.
Cubieboard. I got mine from Miniand at: https://www.miniand.com/products/Cubieb ... er%20Board

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Re: Suggestions for version 3

Tue Aug 27, 2013 11:30 am

Jim Manley wrote:
hippy wrote:There is no absolute reason the Foundation has to limit itself to purely educational use and anything targeted at another sector can still support educational goals.
Actually, yes it does have to limit itself to purely educational use
I don't believe that is true. Most charities will set themselves goals and then leave the door wide open to doing anything and everything to further those goal. That can include merchandise such as T-shirts, mugs and stickers which do not directly further their goals but do indirectly; and there is nothing of "purely educational use" in any of those.

A charity may choose not to be involved in a particular venture but there would usually be few restrictions on what any charity can do providing it does ultimately benefit their goals. Many charities simply 'sell things', any things, and the profit from that goes to benefiting their cause; what they are selling does not need to be of direct benefit to those they seek to help.

If a "Pi for the Lazy", not targeted at those learning computing, could rake in $10m profit which can be spent on aiding those who are learning computing I would not have a problem with that, would say it was a good thing. There are arguments against but "should not" is very different to being prohibited from doing so.

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Re: Suggestions for version 3

Tue Aug 27, 2013 12:04 pm

W. H. Heydt wrote:
Heater wrote:W. H. Heydt,
Actually...try $50. !GHz, 1GB RAM, more GPIO pins (96, I think), line in, SATA, otg USB (in addtion to 2 USB). Just hunt around a bit.
Please name that board and tell me where I can get one at that price.

But really is that the point? If you need a gig of RAM or 96 I/O pins or SATA or whatever you can get it from many places. Whatever you need to pay you will pay.
Cubieboard. I got mine from Miniand at: https://www.miniand.com/products/Cubieb ... er%20Board
That's the problem, the Cubieboard is yank centric, so its expensive this side of the pond, the Pi is (sort of, I don't think much of the dollar price tag) brit centric so it's cheap here.
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Re: Suggestions for version 3

Tue Aug 27, 2013 5:53 pm

I'm rather a latecomer to the Pi revolution, mostly due to the difficulty in buying one.

I don't think a lot of people understand what they are actually getting for $25 or $35. Add a wifi dongle and for less that $50 you have an actual linux computer that is free to roam. For that price, you can barely buy an wifi card for one of the so-called "economy" boards. If you don't like the features, you are free to spend the hundreds of bucks to get a "full-featured" SBC that will keep you busy for months. The Pi is so inexpensive that it almost rates as a disposable system. And don't forget the fact that it runs a "free" set of software that is completely open.

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Re: Suggestions for version 3

Tue Aug 27, 2013 6:34 pm

abishur wrote:
More Pi Please wrote:My biggest problem with the Pi are the SD cards.

I get errors out of nowhere far too often.

Just yesterday, working on a project. Walking an SD card between a model A and model B. Always being careful.

Then out of nowhere the card has tons of errors, have to stop everything and make a new card.

It really disappoints me that I can't trust that the Pi is going to be reliable no matter how careful I am.

That's when I start wondering when Arduino or Beagle are going to drop a nice HD video chip on one of their new Linux boards and I would have to leave the Pi behind.

I just greatly dislike the 'works fine! oh, now the card is trashed' experiences I've had with the Pi.

Really wish this could be locked down with some trick. Like the write protect switch on the cards actually working on the Pi. Blocking a pin connection between the card and pi? Maybe a never-write option in the config. Maybe a place for users to solder in some memory where the Pi can boot from instead.

But the best to me would be to drop the SD card for something much more stable.
From my own testing I've found that this typically happens with overclocking. Specifically overclocking with a little overvoltage. There has been some speculation that a very small capacitor between the SD slot's ground and another pin (sorry I forget which off the top of my head, but it's been discussed on the forum) fixes this issue. I haven't been able to test that aspect of it, but I have fixed it by limiting myself to the overclock without overvoltage. Hopefully if we do see a Rev3 with the education release this and the USB port will be addressed, but even if they're not, while being annoying they're not show stoppers.

I want to make it clear that I have never overclocked any of my Pi's. I have a lot of them. I also always use 2amp power supplies.

But their reliability regarding SD card corruption is really becoming a serious problem for me.

Now I'm getting worried about using the same cards between Pi's. A perfectly working card is fine one day between Pi's, then suddenly errors upon errors. I am always careful to touch only non conductive areas of the cards and pi's as well. So it's back to never removing the cards. (where I also had too many errors for my liking)

I enjoy the Pi, but having to remake and purchase so many SD cards is taking too much time away from actually getting projects done.

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Re: Suggestions for version 3

Tue Aug 27, 2013 8:06 pm

More Pi Please wrote:
I want to make it clear that I have never overclocked any of my Pi's. I have a lot of them. I also always use 2amp power supplies.

But their reliability regarding SD card corruption is really becoming a serious problem for me.

Now I'm getting worried about using the same cards between Pi's. A perfectly working card is fine one day between Pi's, then suddenly errors upon errors. I am always careful to touch only non conductive areas of the cards and pi's as well. So it's back to never removing the cards. (where I also had too many errors for my liking)

I enjoy the Pi, but having to remake and purchase so many SD cards is taking too much time away from actually getting projects done.
That is interesting. I've been running a Pi as a media center 24/7 for almost 6 months now without so much as a hiccup on the SD card, same with a second Pi as a file server. I have a third one that is my jack of all trades that I'm constantly swapping cards in and out of again all with no corruption errors, unless I start to overclock it. And I'll be honest I'm a beast to these cards. They get thrown in backpacks and laptop carry bags without so much as a plastic cover. I leave them in desks, on desks, and on fireplaces to be bat around by my cat. I seldom even use a 1 amp power supply with my pi. It it odd that you are having so many issues when most people aren't experiencing anything like this. It makes me wonder if you don't have some peripherial attached that has sudden power drains that would be similar to the overclock power drain. I'm guessing you shut the pi down cleanly with sudo halt too.

Of course this is all way off topic :lol: If you want I'd be happy to split this into a dedicated thread to help troubleshoot.
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Re: Suggestions for version 3

Tue Aug 27, 2013 8:42 pm

it is odd - been using PI's for months, not one SD card corruption and I'm pushing them in and out all the time. There's gotta be something in it, but I don't know what. Dom did fix a corruption case a few weeks back, but I think that was a pretty rare occurrence bug.
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Re: Suggestions for version 3

Tue Aug 27, 2013 10:34 pm

I've never had a single corruption myself, and that's in spite of my own Raspberry Pi being part of a Lapdock setup and me sometimes accidentally causing it to lose power! (By jostling the Micro HDMI or Micro USB connectors.)

The first thing I would look at is the brand of the cards (some cards, including some from brand-names that are well-known, cut corners on the controllers, and so on), and the source that they were purchased from (just as a precaution - though I'm sure we all know not to buy SD Cards from eBay, given the massive problems with false-capacity counterfeits that they refuse to address).

And the usual caveats apply - i.e., a high "Class" number is irrelevant because it pertains only to sustained writes, and that sort of thing.
pluggy wrote:(sort of, I don't think much of the dollar price tag)
My understanding is that electronic parts are always priced and traded in US Dollars. The Raspberry Pi's USD price will never really change, whereas the GBP one will fluctuate with exchange rates, which would be why it's typically listed in dollars. ;)
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Re: Suggestions for version 3

Wed Aug 28, 2013 5:10 am

pluggy wrote:
W. H. Heydt wrote: Cubieboard. I got mine from Miniand at: https://www.miniand.com/products/Cubieb ... er%20Board
That's the problem, the Cubieboard is yank centric, so its expensive this side of the pond, the Pi is (sort of, I don't think much of the dollar price tag) brit centric so it's cheap here.

I was asked to name a $50 board with the given specs. I did so.

The Cubieboard is--so far as I can tell--manufactured in China, not--so far as I know--designed in the US, and the company I bought mine from is in Australia. How is that "UScentric"? Note that the official price of the Pi is also in US dollars, so at least we're comparing prices in the same currency.

It would take some doing, even allowing for import duties and other taxes, plus shipping and handling to get a Cubie to over $200 (which would be closing in on that mention 150 UKpounds).

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Re: Suggestions for version 3

Wed Aug 28, 2013 5:55 am

The Cubieboard is not a U.S. board there is only one official distributor here. The rest are on Ebay.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Cortex-A8-Raspb ... 4172ca492a
http://www.ebay.com/itm/pcDuino-Android ... 1c35ecdc5c

They are Raspberry Pi products didn't you get the Memorandum! :lol: They also make the MK802, pcDuino.
(no you will not get the memo, these are not made or sold by the Foundation) There are a lot of things on Eprey that are quoting Raspberry Pi because it is very popular!

I have been sending these to the foundation so they can get them pulled. It looks like they are being posted faster the Foundation can have them taken down.
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Re: Suggestions for version 3

Wed Aug 28, 2013 9:48 pm

hippy wrote:
Jim Manley wrote:
hippy wrote:There is no absolute reason the Foundation has to limit itself to purely educational use and anything targeted at another sector can still support educational goals.
Actually, yes it does have to limit itself to purely educational use
I don't believe that is true.
It all comes down to how much your budget is for lawyers when, not if, you're challenged. T-shirts, mugs, mouse pads, bears wearing T-shirts drinking from mugs while using mouse pads (oops, this is starting to get recursive pretty quickly! ;) ) are promotional items that help increase awareness and are called out in the relevant laws. Designing and having built products that are not primarily promotional in nature and that don't further the educational goals of the Foundation (in this case, as stated in their registration documentation) cannot be pursued, exclamation point (I so want to invoke Victor Borge sound effects at this juncture :lol:)!

If the Foundation thought they could sell properly-licensed Windows crates manufactured under a design of someone else's doing to further their stated goals, that would be fine - they wouldn't be designing said crates for sale as they already existed. Could they build Formula One cars (or whatever is the current in-vogue one-design), slap the big red raspberry logo on the sides, and try to sell them to bazillionaires? Probably not a wise investment of tens of millions of dollars (or pounds, it doesn't much matter up in that rarefied air), and the competing car manufacturers could probably make mince-meat of them on the first tracks they encountered, long before any regulators came along to pick through the carcasses to evaluate non-profit compliance.

It wouldn't be the regulators who show up at the alleged-crime scene first, anyway, it would be the commercial companies' lawyers crying foul and gesturing excitedly at their version of reality. It's only the relative paucity of power in the ARM CPU and nearly non-existent pockets of the Foundation that makes it not worth anyone's while to bother waking any of the on-retainer lawyers to do any excited gesturing. However, if the Foundation did produce something for next-to-nothing that the for-profit commercial companies thought might impair their ability to sell their current or in-development wares, they wouldn't hesitate for a nanosecond to raise a red card and demand the offending player leave the pitch. Having that raspberry outline silk-screened onto the board would not make it a primarily promotional item for protection, BTW, even if someone did just use it for a coaster (a highly-intelligent, multimedia and robotics capable, beverage-warming coaster nonetheless!).

This is all about appearances, not absolute technical boundaries. There have been numerous lawsuits about product "dumping" primarily in mainstream Western markets by Asian manufacturers, whether or not the products were actually being sold below cost. It's just not a very good idea to go poking very large entities with deep wallets in the eye, even if the hoi-polloi are egging you on to Just Do It. Nobody cared the first time around because no one was insane enough to try to sell last-year's technology engineered into a product using less-than-slave (i.e., volunteer - they even feed and clothe themselves, well, more or less) labor. With the Foundation having established a bright, shining market and brand of its own, there are going to be a lot more steely eyeballs staring at whatever might come rolling down the pike someday (wouldn't it be just like the Foundation to never produce another new design again for as long as the rest of us may live, just to make all this verbiage moot?) :roll:
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Re: Suggestions for version 3

Wed Aug 28, 2013 10:29 pm

Jim Manley wrote:Could they build Formula One cars (or whatever is the current in-vogue one-design), slap the big red raspberry logo on the sides
but it would be really cool if one of the Formula 1 teams could be persuaded to parade the Raspberry logo for free :D
Jim Manley wrote:BTW, even if someone did just use it for a coaster (a highly-intelligent, multimedia and robotics capable, beverage-warming coaster nonetheless!).
They'd need a pentium for that! :lol:
Jim Manley wrote:(wouldn't it be just like the Foundation to never produce another new design again for as long as the rest of us may live, just to make all this verbiage moot?) :roll:
The Curse of the Model B??? :roll:

:lol:

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Re: Suggestions for version 3

Fri Aug 30, 2013 9:12 am

HI

well the mouse don't like to work.

so if a direct connection is problematic, and a 'hub' is useless I would want an extra port or two in the hope that the Pi and it's OS can see and use a mouse.

keyboard always seems to work, cable or wireless mouse very iffy.
Oakham wrote:If extra ??? ports are required use an add-on board:

http://elinux.org/RPi_Expansion_Boards

See - everything one desires, wishes, has fantasy dreams about, someone somewhere can provide it.

Not everyone wants these features and are happy with Pi and like paying the small amount..........

UFB

So bottom line is these threads are really to do with people who are too lazy to find a solution themselves, what they really desire is a NEW Windows 8 Tower System for the price of 3 Pi's

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Re: Suggestions for version 3

Fri Aug 30, 2013 10:15 am

johndough wrote:HI

well the mouse don't like to work.

so if a direct connection is problematic, and a 'hub' is useless I would want an extra port or two in the hope that the Pi and it's OS can see and use a mouse.

keyboard always seems to work, cable or wireless mouse very iffy.
Oakham wrote:If extra ??? ports are required use an add-on board:

http://elinux.org/RPi_Expansion_Boards

See - everything one desires, wishes, has fantasy dreams about, someone somewhere can provide it.

Not everyone wants these features and are happy with Pi and like paying the small amount..........

UFB

So bottom line is these threads are really to do with people who are too lazy to find a solution themselves, what they really desire is a NEW Windows 8 Tower System for the price of 3 Pi's
Wuh? I've never had any problems with mice, ever. What problem are you seeing? This is perhaps the first wired mouse bug report we have ever had. We did have some early problems with wireless ones IIRC, but I thought everything had been fixed there.
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Re: Suggestions for version 3

Fri Aug 30, 2013 2:42 pm

johndough wrote:well the mouse don't like to work.
so if a direct connection is problematic, and a 'hub' is useless I would want an extra port or two in the hope that the Pi and it's OS can see and use a mouse.
keyboard always seems to work, cable or wireless mouse very iffy.
Have you checked to see if your mouse is a problematic model listed toward the bottom of this page:

http://elinux.org/RPi_USB_Mouse_devices

It sounds like you've tried more than one mouse, but if you haven't, try as many different models as possible. Just for fun, try swapping the mouse and keyboard USB plugs in the Pi's USB sockets - you may have a wonky USB port that's not making contact properly and if the mouse starts working but the keyboard goes stupid, you should return the Pi to the seller for an exchange (I received a Pi with a broken white plastic alignment tab in one of the USB sockets that wasn't immediately noticeable unless you happened to be looking straight into the connector). If the USB ports are OK, although your keyboard is working, I would also try a power supply model known to work, just in case.
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Re: Suggestions for version 3

Sun Sep 01, 2013 8:29 am

blamarpa wrote:i "only" want:

Quad core arm. Ok, 2 at least but with power management (on, off, sleep)
1 gb ram
4 usb
audio in (voip neds it, and karaoke :) )
1 gb ethernet with poe (wol would be great)
sata
16 gpio (8 pwm capables for servos and others)
a more robust power conector
all external connectors in one side (power, hdmi, video, audio, eth and 2 usb)
in the other side 2 usb, sata and gpio, serial, i2c and holes to solder a battery and audio)
and the procesor in the other face of the board in order to use a metalic chasis as refrigerator or use a big one screwed to the board.


A good price with a ligth versión as you are doing now.
and you can name it Santa Claus if you want ;)
luv it ... we could even call it 'desk top PC'
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Re: Suggestions for version 3

Wed Sep 11, 2013 2:52 pm

Can we have a new ISA bga chip bus and expansion system, something that is open and any hardware manufacturer can use so that peripherals can interoperate between SOCs?.

I could post some topological and geometric ideas if broadcom are interested.

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Re: Suggestions for version 3

Wed Sep 11, 2013 3:02 pm

armv7 and sata port
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Re: Suggestions for version 3

Wed Sep 11, 2013 3:31 pm

why isnt this trhead locked yet?

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Re: Suggestions for version 3

Wed Sep 11, 2013 3:43 pm

noob wrote:why isnt this trhead locked yet?
Because the Foundation are a little bit interested in hearing what people have to say. In amongst all the noise there may be some things that might one day see the light of day in the Pi+, Pi Master or Pi Master Compact. Or maybe they might not...

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Re: Suggestions for version 3

Wed Sep 11, 2013 3:54 pm

As long as they don't suggest a Pi Master 128(K)! :lol:

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Re: Suggestions for version 3

Wed Sep 11, 2013 4:16 pm

AndrewdAzotus wrote:As long as they don't suggest a Pi Master 128(K)! :lol:
nothing wrong with
Master Pi 1Gb


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