mrail
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Suggestions for version 3

Wed Aug 21, 2013 1:57 am

There's a few of things I would love to see on version 3.
First, I would love a spot to solder a header to supply power without using the USB connector. It would be nice if we could supply it with a 12 Volt power source.
Second, most computers these days have built-in microphone. Could we have a header that would allow us to connect a 2 wire microphone? No need to spend money on a connector.
Third, with the lack of built-in wifi or bluetooth, we quickly need to connect a USB hub. I would like to package the PI in a small self contained box. How about adding a second stack of USB connectors or perhaps a header to connect an optional USB board we could mount to the enclosure?
Forth, speaking of enclosures, the distribution of the connectors makes it awkward to mount it so we can make the connectors accessible. I know it's very hard to make miracles with this small real estate . I may also not want all connections to be available on the outside of the enclosure. Again, I'm back to the darn headers. But, with headers, we get total freedom. Maybe we could have a version without any connector. We could just use headers on that version. Yes, I know, it could drive pricing up if there's not enough demand.

My 2 cents...

Mike

W. H. Heydt
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Re: Suggestions for version 3

Wed Aug 21, 2013 4:28 am

mrail wrote:There's a few of things I would love to see on version 3.
That's what everybody says.

Thing to remember....a "Rev. 3" if it ever happens would be very close the exact same hardware we have now. All you'd get are "tweaks". Any replacement parts would almost have to be drop in replacements for what is there now. With that in mind...
First, I would love a spot to solder a header to supply power without using the USB connector.
One presumes you mean the micro-USB power connector, a standard connector. (I get amused when people suggest barrel connectors...for which, so far as I can tell, there is no real standard....but you're asking for header pins...)

You do know that you can power a Pi through the +V and ground GPIO pins, don't you? That provides the functionality you're asking for right now.
It would be nice if we could supply it with a 12 Volt power source.
That would require a MUCH better voltage regulator...and that would (likely) cost more.
Second, most computers these days have built-in microphone.
Really? None of my computers have built-in mics. Many of them have mic inputs, but no actual mics. Since USB mics or mic adapters exist...there is your path to mic input.
Could we have a header that would allow us to connect a 2 wire microphone? No need to spend money on a connector.
Can you point to *any* analog inputs on the PI? You are asking for an analog input. I don't even know if the BMC2835 has a way to handle such an input.
Third, with the lack of built-in wifi or bluetooth, we quickly need to connect a USB hub. I would like to package the PI in a small self contained box. How about adding a second stack of USB connectors or perhaps a header to connect an optional USB board we could mount to the enclosure?
If you want to build a case with USB hub already in place, feel free to do so. I've seen a rig like that, and while it was quite nice, it's not something that I need--or would want to pay for. (My need for USB hubs is...minimal since all my usual uses for Pis use a wired network connection.) I would point out that there exist RJ-45 to WiFi adapters out there. They're a bit pricey ($25 last time I looked), but they do exist. That would give you WiFi without needing a hub.
Forth, speaking of enclosures, the distribution of the connectors makes it awkward to mount it so we can make the connectors accessible. I know it's very hard to make miracles with this small real estate . I may also not want all connections to be available on the outside of the enclosure. Again, I'm back to the darn headers. But, with headers, we get total freedom. Maybe we could have a version without any connector. We could just use headers on that version. Yes, I know, it could drive pricing up if there's not enough demand.
Two points here... First, for the primary intended purpose of the PI, just handing someone one with nothing but headers would probably kill nearly the entire education market. It would make the Pi and "electronics project" rather that a "learn to program project". If you don't want connectors, no one is preventing you from de-soldering them.

The manufacturing issue is that what's keeping the price down is that 19th century development "mass production" (first implemented, so far as I know, by Marc Isambard Brunel to make blocks for the Royal Navy). The idea is to make whole bunchs of *identical* objects to reduce the cost of each one. If the production lines are split to make "normal" Pis and "connectorless" Pis, some of the advantage of the mass production assembly line is lost...and the price of both versions goes up.

FYI...if you really, really need an audio in, there is at least one board out there that has a "line in" plug.

noob
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Re: Suggestions for version 3

Wed Aug 21, 2013 2:13 pm

NOOO!

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Re: Suggestions for version 3

Wed Aug 21, 2013 4:20 pm

noob wrote:NOOO!
To what? The whole idea of a Rev. 3, or one of the specific ideas?

Oakham
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Re: Suggestions for version 3

Wed Aug 21, 2013 4:27 pm

I would also shout no no no, if most of the ideas of the OP were implemented it would not be an affordable Pi.

There are many other "development" boards available and each has a niche, so I am sure the OP could sell his Pi on Ebay and buy something else which has the requirements he desires !
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Re: Suggestions for version 3

Wed Aug 21, 2013 4:29 pm

eban has not ruled out a V3
however don't expect anything mentioned before it appears ... in fact it will probably show up on element 14's web site before we get to hear of it ...

there are plenty of other thread about features etc...
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Re: Suggestions for version 3

Wed Aug 21, 2013 5:57 pm

The Pi is great as is. There are a ton of add-on adapters to expand the functionality of the headers and whatnot, so really, if you want an electronics project, you are looking at the wrong device.

If they make a version 3, or model C, or whatever, the only thing I would like to see would be more ram and MAYBE another stack of USB ports just because. But really, 1GB alone would be an insta-buy for me. Also a black PCB would be sweet too. The drab green isnt very exciting. lol.
Last edited by lazarus78 on Wed Aug 21, 2013 6:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

mrail
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Re: Suggestions for version 3

Wed Aug 21, 2013 5:59 pm

Well, I was certainly put back in my place. The lords of PI have spoken. I therefore stand down on my suggestions which are obviously silly. Let's forget the whole thing and keep these RPi on the work bench. Your message is clear. I thought it would have been interesting to build small projects and use them around the house, the car, the boat or the summer home. To enclose them in the smallest foot print. Mr. Heydt, I guess you are the head developer or the president. Perhaps you are the CTO. I'm just a hobbyist who like to tinker, learn new thing and apply what I have learned into some functioning project. I guess it's back to Arduino for me.

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Re: Suggestions for version 3

Wed Aug 21, 2013 6:05 pm

mrail wrote:Well, I was certainly put back in my place. The lords of PI have spoken. I therefore stand down on my suggestions which are obviously silly. Let's forget the whole thing and keep these RPi on the work bench. Your message is clear. I thought it would have been interesting to build small projects and use them around the house, the car, the boat or the summer home. To enclose them in the smallest foot print. Mr. Heydt, I guess you are the head developer or the president. Perhaps you are the CTO. I'm just a hobbyist who like to tinker, learn new thing and apply what I have learned into some functioning project. I guess it's back to Arduino for me.
You are taking it out of proportion. Remember the Pi was designed for education in schools, not a hobby toy. It just happened to be popular beyond their intended market.

Its not that your ideas are bad, they just extend beyond the scope of what the Pi was made for. Sure they could tack on this and that and these and those new features, but then the whole project loses its focus.

The idea of KISS applies here.

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Re: Suggestions for version 3

Wed Aug 21, 2013 6:24 pm

I guess it depends on what you want to use it for. I'm happy with the peripherals, but I'd love a dual core chip with twice as much RAM. I know that would cost quite a bit more, but I think there's quite a lot of demand for devices with dual/quad core ARM chips.
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Re: Suggestions for version 3

Wed Aug 21, 2013 7:09 pm

WebPi,
I'd love a dual core chip with twice as much RAM.
So would I. Or more of all of that...
I know that would cost quite a bit more,
Yes of course. So it does not fit the aims of the Pi Foundation. I.E. Cheap computers for kids to play with.
but I think there's quite a lot of demand for devices with dual/quad core ARM chips.
Sure there is. And there are companies out there supplying such things, if you want to pay more.
The Rasperry Pi foundation is not a charity dedicated to to providing the latest and greatest and ever more powerful computer boards for everyone.

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Lob0426
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Re: Suggestions for version 3

Wed Aug 21, 2013 8:13 pm

@mrail;
@W.H.Heydt is not a lord of Pi but he can be a killjoy! :lol:

He is right, at least partially. The Foundation goals are educational. They do like to see all the crazy stuff being done with the RasPi. But the crazy stuff can be educational also.

I do believe the Foundation is watching these type of posts and looking at what could legitimately can be worked into the next version, if there is one.

I have replaced the USB ports with 1/10th" pins. I back-power through the USB. So there are things that you can change on the current version. I have also been working on making the RasPi work off 7.5V to 32V by using DC/DC converters. I use one to supply 5V and replaced RG2 with another for better efficiency. The voltages tested out but the RasPi does not fire up and the regs get real hot. I think it is a filtering issue.

But that is for another post.

The point is there is a lot that can be accomplished with the current version! And keep dreaming about what version 3 needs!
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Re: Suggestions for version 3

Wed Aug 21, 2013 11:46 pm

i "only" want:

Quad core arm. Ok, 2 at least but with power management (on, off, sleep)
1 gb ram
4 usb
audio in (voip neds it, and karaoke :) )
1 gb ethernet with poe (wol would be great)
sata
16 gpio (8 pwm capables for servos and others)
a more robust power conector
all external connectors in one side (power, hdmi, video, audio, eth and 2 usb)
in the other side 2 usb, sata and gpio, serial, i2c and holes to solder a battery and audio)
and the procesor in the other face of the board in order to use a metalic chasis as refrigerator or use a big one screwed to the board.


A good price with a ligth versión as you are doing now.
and you can name it Santa Claus if you want ;)

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Re: Suggestions for version 3

Thu Aug 22, 2013 12:23 am

What the Raspberry Pi desperately needs for version 3 is ...
A software SDK

Android has one. iOS has one. Qualcomm has one. Tegra has one. The Pi needs developer software that can be installed on a PC to develop software for the device. The SDK should provide C/C++ language support in an IDE, remote deploy and debugging, and most importantly simulation of the device APIs (opengl es, openvg, openmax, dispmanx [or openwf]) on the host PC.

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Re: Suggestions for version 3

Thu Aug 22, 2013 12:56 am

Since everyone else is taking a shot at this Ill add my 2 cents.

-1GB ram would be really nice (would pay more for this feature!)
-An ethernet port not connected using USB
-A barrel plug connector (I know theres no standard but microusb is physically weak and prone to problems IMO)

Keep the ARM v6 if it truly keeps the cost down that much, which i can bet it does. I dont mind the speed, this board is used for command line server features for me and the GPIO pins.
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Re: Suggestions for version 3

Thu Aug 22, 2013 1:55 am

WebPi wrote:I guess it depends on what you want to use it for. I'm happy with the peripherals, but I'd love a dual core chip with twice as much RAM. I know that would cost quite a bit more, but I think there's quite a lot of demand for devices with dual/quad core ARM chips.
That exists and it costs $60. It's called a "Cubieboard 2" and uses an Allwinner A20, but note the price.

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Re: Suggestions for version 3

Thu Aug 22, 2013 2:04 am

At this point, I have to kind of chuckle at this thread.

I dearly love the Pi...enough to have purchased a total of 12 of them so far.

What most people are describing is the Cubieboard or the Cubieboard 2.

Allwinner A10 ($50)/A20 ($60) at 1GHz
1 GB RAM
2 USB +otg micro-USB
Barrel connector power
Audio out plus line in
Power swtich
SATA connector (with +5v connector)
HDMI out
4GB on board NAND flash
Micro-SD card holder

For a bunch of the stuff I do, I still prefer the Pi, though.

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Re: Suggestions for version 3

Thu Aug 22, 2013 2:06 am

I'll say it again (since we're asking for the things we really want in a board like this - and are willing to pay the price...).

What the Pi really, really, needs is an x86 processor.

That would solve so many problems.
And some folks need to stop being fanboys and see the forest behind the trees.

(One of the best lines I've seen on this board lately)

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Re: Suggestions for version 3

Thu Aug 22, 2013 3:29 am

ARM8 generation processor or ATOM processor, 4GB RAM, 8GB RAM if 64 bit. Maybe a SD RAM DIMM slot for memory expansion. Separation of Ethernet from USB. Analog support in GPIO, more PWM support, and more total user-addressable/controllable pins by default... hate the soldering of pins to expand GPIO pins available. A native/standard real-time-clock option. 1 GB NIC port, USB 3.0, maybe 4 ports, stacked, to eliminate the need for almost always having to use a powered USB hub. A shoot the moon feature, a SATA III port or even better a storage oriented PCI port... this is one of the hottest emerging trends for servers... storage device on the PCI bus. An OS that is real time thread possible or better near real time than Linux on Pi is today. A really cool feature would be a Pi to Pi interconnect system, so you could chain Pi devices together to form a modular grid, given right OS support. But that is a bit crazy... but it would create some cool options for a parallel based computing model, one step closer to real time architecture. A different or stronger SD card slot design. A true power switch. Move power connector away from components that might be damaged with power removal. Maybe built-in opto-isolation design for in-bound GPIO pins on additional header. User replaceable polyfuse so a toasted Pi can be revived?

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Re: Suggestions for version 3

Thu Aug 22, 2013 4:42 am

Schorschi wrote:ARM8 generation processor or ATOM processor, 4GB RAM, 8GB RAM if 64 bit...
I think you have mistaken the Pi for an out of date (but not TOO out of date) desktop PC.

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Re: Suggestions for version 3

Thu Aug 22, 2013 4:51 am

Schorschi wrote:ARM8 generation processor or ATOM processor, 4GB RAM, 8GB RAM if 64 bit. Maybe a SD RAM DIMM slot for memory expansion. Separation of Ethernet from USB. Analog support in GPIO, more PWM support, and more total user-addressable/controllable pins by default... hate the soldering of pins to expand GPIO pins available. A native/standard real-time-clock option. 1 GB NIC port, USB 3.0, maybe 4 ports, stacked, to eliminate the need for almost always having to use a powered USB hub. A shoot the moon feature, a SATA III port or even better a storage oriented PCI port... this is one of the hottest emerging trends for servers... storage device on the PCI bus. An OS that is real time thread possible or better near real time than Linux on Pi is today. A really cool feature would be a Pi to Pi interconnect system, so you could chain Pi devices together to form a modular grid, given right OS support. But that is a bit crazy... but it would create some cool options for a parallel based computing model, one step closer to real time architecture. A different or stronger SD card slot design. A true power switch. Move power connector away from components that might be damaged with power removal. Maybe built-in opto-isolation design for in-bound GPIO pins on additional header. User replaceable polyfuse so a toasted Pi can be revived?
My i7-2600 (Dell 8300) did not come with all that! I had to add the USB 3.0 and it doesn't have the GPIO pins. My GPU is a bit faster than the RasPi as it is a Radeon 6770 with 1 GB of memory. And I do have the 8GB RAM. So all that should only cost you about $1500 or so, At least if you shop in the Dell outlet. Maybe $2000 to $2500 for a new system.

Not much of a difference in price from the RasPi. The Panda Board ES at $199 does not have even half those features.

Overall I think you are barking up the wrong tree with those "specs"! :shock: :lol:

And I would be happy with a ARM V7 server version 512MB, little or no GPU support,,,, and oh yeah, a halt switch. ;)
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Re: Suggestions for version 3

Thu Aug 22, 2013 7:51 am

Oh Mummy I want I want I want, sounds like a spoilt brat..................

Ever since the original PI was released, this forum has been littered with I want this feature, and what has happened, absolutely ZERO, diddly-squat.

The Foundation have stated that they are not prepared to leave behind the original Pi users, which if the must have features were implemented would happen.

Considering how limited the Pi is ? I am surprised how many projects have been created ?

So the bottom line is the moaners and groaners want an out-of-the-box product, rather than learn to circumnavigate the limitations,

Ingenuity is what makes the world happen, so if you do not like the Pi, you have the option of buy a different product and plague their forums !!

I have only recently had time to occasionally come here and post, and it makes me very very sad that the OP has nothing better to do with his time :twisted:
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Re: Suggestions for version 3

Thu Aug 22, 2013 10:23 am

$59 Iteaduino Plus ARM Linux Board Features Raspberry Pi and Arduino Compatible Headers

http://www.cnx-software.com/2013/08/22/ ... le-headers
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Re: Suggestions for version 3

Thu Aug 22, 2013 5:08 pm

Lob0426 wrote: And I would be happy with a ARM V7 server version 512MB, little or no GPU support,,,, and oh yeah, a halt switch. ;)
That's what I'm using Cubieboards for....servers to support Pis. Weaker GPU, 1GB RAM, powers down on "halt" and has a pushbutton to power it back on (or force it to shut down). The SATA port supports the "server" usage as well. I doubt that Raspbian (which I'm using for MY compatability) fully supports the ARMv7 on it, but it runs okay. I'm seriously thinking of getting a Cubie 2 to be an even better server, since that board is dual core.

I don't see these boards as Pi replacements or successors, but as support servers. On the other hand, if the RPF decided to put out a supplemental SBC with, essentially, the same features, I'd snap it up. Not that I'm holding my breath waiting for that to happen. (RPF has better support from a larger community, as shown by the fact that the "Debian" release for the Cubie's is Raspbian.)

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Re: Suggestions for version 3

Fri Aug 23, 2013 4:57 am

I know my "fans" have been waiting with baited breath (you really need to lay off the minnows, guys! :D) to see what I'm going to say about yet-another bleating about what someone wants on a different model of Pi. I have it on good authority from a mysterious person named "Notpu Nebe", evil twin of a certain software architect, that the next version of the Pi will be so far ahead of the current Models A and B that it will be named the Model Z.

The Model Z Pi will feature the latest in not-yet-invented quantum computing elements that will allow instantaneous transmission of data faster than the speed of light by separating quantum pairs to a distant part of the universe. When the state of one pair element is changed between zero and one, the state of the corresponding distant pair element will also change instantly.

In addition to the 8K HD Camera Serial Interface and 8K HD Display Serial Interface, the Model Z Pi will have the Transporter Serial Interface which will allow movement of objects and people instantaneously via the quantum pair state-simultaneity phenomenon.

Memory on the Model Z Pi will be unlimited since communications will occur instantly between the system and remote storage (the days of SD card booting will finally be over). Likewise, processing power will be infinite since any number of processors in any locations will be able to operate in parallel and communicate computations without delay.

The Model Z Pi will be based on flexible printed circuit board technology that will make it possible to bend it to conform to whatever volume of space is available. Connectors will be able to be snapped onto or off the board at-will, making it possible to reduce its volume and only attach those connectors that will be needed, both on-board or via extension stub cables.

It will cost $15 and will include a 10-amp, 5-volt switching power supply that can be driven by up to 240 volts AC or DC. That price will also include all shipping, taxes, tarriffs, fees, duties, and every other form of bribe, corruption, graft, grift, payola, etc., foreign and domestic.

You will know the Model Z Pi is imminent when suddenly the distributors run out of Model A and B stock. Any number of Model Z Pi systems will be available to anyone interested in buying them starting on the day of the launch. Oh, it's not April First? Then you know that this description of the Model Z is completely on-the-level :lol:
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