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liz
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Re: raspberry pi already failed ?

Wed Apr 25, 2012 1:05 pm

I'm moderately surprised that the "but with peripherals it will cost ONE MIIIILLION DOLLARS" argument is raising its head again here. I really thought we'd addressed it already.

One of the things we worked very hard to do with the original design was making sure that all peripherals would either be hanging around in the home already (hence the change to MicroUSB, which is the EU and US standard for phone chargers now, so they're available in increasing numbers and at decreasing price as time goes on), or available at the lowest possible cost. That's why there's a composite port there - if you're not from a family wealthy enough to have upgraded their TV or to own a monitor, you can still use the Raspberry Pi. Most kids can scrounge up a second-hand USB mouse and keyboard from a parent, a parent's friend or the charity shop for little or nothing; and they're extremely cheap online too. And if you don't own one already, that SD card will set you back less than a fiver.

The peripherals at ONE MIIIILLION DOLLARS argument is still a very popular straw man, though, and it's beyond me why people still use it. Seriously - if there's anything to criticise here, you've got plenty of more valid options: the amount of RAM, the fact that we don't bring out VGA and so on. Use those in your arguments instead. You'll get much more useful responses.
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Re: raspberry pi already failed ?

Wed Apr 25, 2012 1:08 pm

hzrnbgy said:


And programming, on an old CRT TV? You or your kids must be eating lots of Vitamin A rich vegetables. I have good eyes but I refuse to type/read/debug lengthy codes on a composite only CRT TV. I wouldn't want my kids in front of an old CRT TV doing their homework.


I's a 32" Loewe, quite possibly the best CRT TV screen ever made

P.S. You do know the vitamin A thing is an old wive's tale, don't you? 

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Re: raspberry pi already failed ?

Wed Apr 25, 2012 1:10 pm

markb said:


I *did* get your point! However I think trying to compare the cost of getting a Rpi up and running to buying a cheap laptop *is* missing the point. There are not the same thing.


I agree - it's a foolish and pointless thing to do! I would never do it!

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Re: raspberry pi already failed ?

Wed Apr 25, 2012 1:13 pm

The only essential expenditure I have had so far is £2.30 for an HDMI/DVI cable from Amazon. Everything else was in boxes in the roof. Having said that, I did splash out in the Pound shop for an SD card reader so make that £3.30, though afterwards I found I had one after all,  stashed away in another box in the roof.

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liz
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Re: raspberry pi already failed ?

Wed Apr 25, 2012 1:14 pm

hzrnbgy said:


And programming, on an old CRT TV? You or your kids must be eating lots of Vitamin A rich vegetables. I have good eyes but I refuse to type/read/debug lengthy codes on a composite only CRT TV. I wouldn't want my kids in front of an old CRT TV doing their homework.


It's how I, Eben and everybody else of our generation learned. We appear to have done OK. (Even though Eben's CRT monitor had a fault - it emitted a very high-frequency whine which eventually chopped a notch in his hearing so he couldn't hear it any more.) You and your kids are lucky to have other options, but it didn't make any of us blind or stop us from learning. In much of the developing world, CRT TVs are widespread, but there aren't many computers. I doubt very much that we'll hear any complaints about vegetables from those places.
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Re: raspberry pi already failed ?

Wed Apr 25, 2012 1:17 pm

The comments about the CRT screens is a pile of old dingo's kidneys. Back in the day we spent whole weekends hunched over ZX81s and Spectrums plugged into ropey old TVs.

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Re: raspberry pi already failed ?

Wed Apr 25, 2012 1:23 pm

and has been posted on here a zillion times before for those in this country wanting to put together a pi system for their kid/s. dvi capable monitors can be had on ebay for under 20 quid, or better yet if you have one on your desktop, upgrade from your current one to something like a 1080p 22 incher or larger to 'let the kids have the old one', same excuse will work for the family tv too.. >:-)
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Re: raspberry pi already failed ?

Wed Apr 25, 2012 1:31 pm

hzrnbgy said:


I'd like to see that setup realised in a portability scenario. And programming, on an old CRT TV? You or your kids must be eating lots of Vitamin A rich vegetables. I have good eyes but I refuse to type/read/debug lengthy codes on a composite only CRT TV. I wouldn't want my kids in front of an old CRT TV doing their homework.


I believe you really completely miss the point the raspi is all about, so I will try another allegory to get through to you.

Imagine someone who is just given a very cheap engine and then scraps together something to drive around with parts from a junkyard. It might even remotely resemble a car. Sure it might even include parts that have been in porsches or even from a rolls royce, but the original selling price of the parts is irrelevant in this.

Yeah sure now you can compare this patched up car with new cars, but point in case is that the person just does not have the money for a new car. Sure the contraption that was build will most definitely even kill the driver in a crash. But you can get from A to B now, for some that is all that they can hope for.

With 10 times more cash than you have to have directly available for a Pi, the world of computing is wide open to you. You can just buy something and get started.

All this rambling and arguing – well and then I realize that I somehow completely miss to understand what it is you want to say. Are you pointing out that windows can do what linux can do? Are you pointing out that PCs can do what the raspi can do? Are you arguing about that the total costs are higher that just the 25/35 pounds?

Sorry to ask but please say: what exactly is it that you want to point out? I do ask because if you clearly state what you wanted to say, then probably we all can just say "oh yes you are right".

On Topic of the thread:

I might have missed it because the thread is quite lengthy by now, but is there an alternative Operating System Project already going on somewhere?

Would be cool to see the progress being made so far

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liz
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Re: raspberry pi already failed ?

Wed Apr 25, 2012 1:39 pm

RISC OS is on its way - Adrian Lees is taking his time over polishing some of his code, though! (I know some of you work in the same building as him. Please poke him on my behalf.)
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Re: raspberry pi already failed ?

Wed Apr 25, 2012 1:50 pm

If you want to go proper old school OS, the source for CP/M is available here:

http://www.cpm.z80.de/source.html

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Re: raspberry pi already failed ?

Wed Apr 25, 2012 2:14 pm

liz said:


hzrnbgy said:


And programming, on an old CRT TV? You or your kids must be eating lots of Vitamin A rich vegetables. I have good eyes but I refuse to type/read/debug lengthy codes on a composite only CRT TV. I wouldn't want my kids in front of an old CRT TV doing their homework.


It's how I, Eben and everybody else of our generation learned. We appear to have done OK. (Even though Eben's CRT monitor had a fault - it emitted a very high-frequency whine which eventually chopped a notch in his hearing so he couldn't hear it any more.) You and your kids are lucky to have other options, but it didn't make any of us blind or stop us from learning. In much of the developing world, CRT TVs are widespread, but there aren't many computers. I doubt very much that we'll hear any complaints about vegetables from those places.


CUB monitors ? 14"

yeah they developed the whine after a while .....

even old crt monitors would whine , and get interference from florescent lights
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liz
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Re: raspberry pi already failed ?

Wed Apr 25, 2012 2:18 pm

I think it was actually his parents' old B&W TV!
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Re: raspberry pi already failed ?

Wed Apr 25, 2012 3:02 pm

liz said:


I think it was actually his parents' old B&W TV!


I had an old B&W TV for my BBC micro - think that came from my parents as well. That eventually got scrapped - still working, after a minimum of 15 years service. I think that was quite whiny as well.
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Re: raspberry pi already failed ?

Wed Apr 25, 2012 3:07 pm

markb said:


mole125 said:


Really? Windows won't fit on a sensibly priced SD card.


I'll just pop in to correct you on that, you can fit an XP image onto a 4 GB card quite easily & Win 7 will happily boot up on an 8 GB card.



All this Windows talk is just so much BS.  The ONLY version of Windows that will run on an ARM cpu is Windows CE and that is pure JUNK!!

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Re: raspberry pi already failed ?

Wed Apr 25, 2012 3:13 pm

lewmur said:


markb said:


mole125 said:


Really? Windows won't fit on a sensibly priced SD card.


I'll just pop in to correct you on that, you can fit an XP image onto a 4 GB card quite easily & Win 7 will happily boot up on an 8 GB card.


All this Windows talk is just so much BS.  The ONLY version of Windows that will run on an ARM cpu is Windows CE and that is pure JUNK!!


This discussion is about the advantages of an RPi compared to a wintel PC, it isn't about running windows on the RPi.

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Re: raspberry pi already failed ?

Wed Apr 25, 2012 3:36 pm

mole125 said:


lewmur said:


markb said:


mole125 said:


Really? Windows won't fit on a sensibly priced SD card.


I'll just pop in to correct you on that, you can fit an XP image onto a 4 GB card quite easily & Win 7 will happily boot up on an 8 GB card.


All this Windows talk is just so much BS.  The ONLY version of Windows that will run on an ARM cpu is Windows CE and that is pure JUNK!!


This discussion is about the advantages of an RPi compared to a wintel PC, it isn't about running windows on the RPi.



There can be no such discussion that make any sense.  The old apples and oranges bit. But that is not what is really going on.  What we really have is a bunch of Redmond shills trying to rain on the R Pi parade.  And it isn't going to work.

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Re: raspberry pi already failed ?

Wed Apr 25, 2012 3:37 pm

Redmond shills???

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Re: raspberry pi already failed ?

Wed Apr 25, 2012 3:45 pm

Which word do you not understand?
And some folks need to stop being fanboys and see the forest behind the trees.

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Re: raspberry pi already failed ?

Wed Apr 25, 2012 3:45 pm

exartemarte said:


Redmond shills???



Would you prefer MS fanboys?

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Re: raspberry pi already failed ?

Wed Apr 25, 2012 3:47 pm

This thread is getting silly, the anti-windows stone was thrown first by a different ALT (angry linux troll). The OP has already been banned, and its gone way off topic.

I had a b&w tv with a  binatone version of pong, i think i"d gone colour by the time i had a commodore plus4, but i cant remember, everything back then is b&w in my memory.

My B&W tv didn"t whine, but the samsung lcd we have in our lounge at home right now DOES!

I"m also a few years older than the OP and wanted a spectrum around the same era, but a newer one than a z80 for sure. so either he"s really 40, a time traveller or was a prodigy.
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Re: raspberry pi already failed ?

Wed Apr 25, 2012 3:52 pm

markb said:


mole125 said:


Really? Windows won't fit on a sensibly priced SD card.


I'll just pop in to correct you on that, you can fit an XP image onto a 4 GB card quite easily & Win 7 will happily boot up on an 8 GB card.


Realy? Do you ever install Windows XP / 7 onto SD Card?

IMO Microsoft would not allow you to instal their OS on REMOVABLE DEVICE. When Windows start booting it will reset USB / Card reader.

And the difference is COST.

You can use linux for free.

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Re: raspberry pi already failed ?

Wed Apr 25, 2012 3:54 pm

ArborealSeer said:


This thread is getting silly, the anti-windows stone was thrown first by a different ALT (angry linux troll). The OP has already been banned, and its gone way off topic.

I had a b&w tv with a  binatone version of pong, i think i"d gone colour by the time i had a commodore plus4, but i cant remember, everything back then is b&w in my memory.

My B&W tv didn"t whine, but the samsung lcd we have in our lounge at home right now DOES!

I"m also a few years older than the OP and wanted a spectrum around the same era, but a newer one than a z80 for sure. so either he"s really 40, a time traveller or was a prodigy.



There had to be an MST here for the ATL to throw it at.

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Re: raspberry pi already failed ?

Wed Apr 25, 2012 3:57 pm


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Re: raspberry pi already failed ?

Wed Apr 25, 2012 3:59 pm

Joe Schmoe said:


Which word do you not understand?


I had never heard the word "shill" - I've googled it now and I presume it's American slang. And I've always associated Microsoft with Seattle. I associate Redmond with West Virginia. If Redmond and Seattle are in the same place (or co-located as you would probably say) then please forgive a foreigner's imperfect grasp of American geography.

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Re: raspberry pi already failed ?

Wed Apr 25, 2012 3:59 pm



Stef said:


markb said:


mole125 said:


Really? Windows won't fit on a sensibly priced SD card.


I'll just pop in to correct you on that, you can fit an XP image onto a 4 GB card quite easily & Win 7 will happily boot up on an 8 GB card.


Realy? Do you ever install Windows XP / 7 onto SD Card?

IMO Microsoft would not allow you to instal their OS on REMOVABLE DEVICE. When Windows start booting it will reset USB / Card reader.

And the difference is COST.

You can use linux for free.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W.....s_portable
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