john_wage
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Re: Im selling my pi

Sat Apr 21, 2012 10:47 pm

Why would anyone even think that by "the people responsible for the retailing of the RPi" I would mean the foundation? because they're obviously not.

Foundation have done an excellent job. I'm just not happy with the distributors, I feel that they have been playing it too safe, instead of taking a risk and getting an even bigger hit, now customers are unhappy because of unreasonably long waiting lines.

Edit:

inb4 "do you even know how distribution and marketing works?"

No, obviously I don't, not compared to someone who does it for a living anyway.

But I do know that if you have half a year (possibly longer) waiting time from the supposedly official release until a cleared backlog then YOU'RE DOING IT WRONG!

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Robert_M
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Re: Im selling my pi

Sat Apr 21, 2012 11:26 pm

Imagine how quaint it will be in a few months that this sort of thing had happened.

Once the backlog clears, why would anyone bother paying more?
I sometimes ride my Pi to the Forum.

R4V3N0U5
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Re: Im selling my pi

Sun Apr 22, 2012 3:07 am

All I know is that it's a disgrace, that a Raspberry Pi came so early into the hands of someone who would rather sell it for some quick profit than to use it and contribute.

Also, I find it completely inappropriate that you would advertise it on these forums... it makes you no different than those spam bots trying to sell those 'enlargement' pills... the only motive is a quick profit.

Anyone who buys it should feel ashamed.

R4V3N0U5
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Re: Im selling my pi

Sun Apr 22, 2012 3:07 am

Edit: Double Post

cehbab
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Re: Im selling my pi

Sun Apr 22, 2012 4:09 am

I count 11 on ebay at the moment. I don't understand the whole giving Nokia 400 from the first batch and this came as a surprise to me, although it turned out their competition had been running for some time.

jamesh
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Re: Im selling my pi

Sun Apr 22, 2012 6:43 am

john_wage said:


Why would anyone even think that by "the people responsible for the retailing of the RPi" I would mean the foundation? because they"re obviously not.

Foundation have done an excellent job. I"m just not happy with the distributors, I feel that they have been playing it too safe, instead of taking a risk and getting an even bigger hit, now customers are unhappy because of unreasonably long waiting lines.

Edit:

inb4 "do you even know how distribution and marketing works?"

No, obviously I don't, not compared to someone who does it for a living anyway.

But I do know that if you have half a year (possibly longer) waiting time from the supposedly official release until a cleared backlog then YOU'RE DOING IT WRONG!


Are you? Or are you making sure that they are manufactured to the required standard, and manufactured properly, and that you have the infrastructure in place to deal with sales and returns? This isn't a marketing or distribution problem, it's a manufacturing problem.

It's been said time and time again, NO-ONE expected the level of demand the has been seen. It double or triple the expectations. That DOES require time to recover from. For example, at the most basic level, lots more SoC's are required than planned for. Those need to be manufactured (stuff like is too expensive to have sitting of shelves hoping for sales) - and it takes time to inject a wafer in to the fab and package them up and get them sent out for the board manufacture.
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john_wage
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Re: Im selling my pi

Sun Apr 22, 2012 7:19 am

@JamesH

I'm fully aware that nothing can be done about it now, and it was probably difficult to foresee and do something preemptively in the past as well.

But looking at the big picture, as a customer it's really none of my business or interest how the entire manufacturing process goes about, all I care about is purchasing the product, and someone has failed to provide this service to me.

I don't want to come across like I'm crying over spilled milk, I'm just tired of all the people vigilantly defending the slow launch.

bobc
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Re: Im selling my pi

Sun Apr 22, 2012 7:19 am

On a practical note, RPi foundation do not appear to be accepting donations yet.

jamesh
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Re: Im selling my pi

Sun Apr 22, 2012 7:28 am

john_wage said:


@JamesH

I'm fully aware that nothing can be done about it now, and it was probably difficult to foresee and do something preemptively in the past as well.

But looking at the big picture, as a customer it's really none of my business or interest how the entire manufacturing process goes about, all I care about is purchasing the product, and someone has failed to provide this service to me.

I don't want to come across like I'm crying over spilled milk, I'm just tired of all the people vigilantly defending the slow launch.


So stop commenting on the delays (since you already know why and how), and you won't get people defending/explaining them. Seem like a win win to me.
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SereneJ
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Re: Im selling my pi

Sun Apr 22, 2012 7:29 am

Well you could always purchase the specified RPi from the thread creator, thus get yourself a RPi earlier!

The EBAY seller gets his £150 and essentially his mod approval since sale originated here!

The EBAY seller could donate some of his (excessive) supply n demand sale price and the foundation benefits further!

Would you look at that everyone WINS

... or you can wait patiently like the majority of us!

4+12 = darn it!

john_wage
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Re: Im selling my pi

Sun Apr 22, 2012 7:40 am

JamesH said:


So stop commenting on the delays (since you already know why and how), and you won't get people defending/explaining them. Seem like a win win to me.


I don't go around complaining/posting about it, I simply stated earlier in this thread that the very low supply, vs. the very high demand, is the cause that have allowed these "gold diggers" to emerge, re-selling their RPi's.

I was then instantly jumped by at least 3 forum warriors telling me that I'm naive and completely unreasonable for not sympathizing about the delays.

Like I said it's simply a little bit tolling to be such a long wait away from being able to purchase and at the same time have all these vigilant defenders saying that it's all perfectly fine.

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Burngate
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Re: Im selling my pi

Sun Apr 22, 2012 8:19 am

So he bought his lottery ticket, and he won. He didn't really want the prize, but having got it, he'd rather someone else did something useful with it than it sit gathering dust. Seems fair enough to me.
If it were me in that position (it wouldn't be - I'd be trying to use it) I'd seriously think about not opening the box - keep it as it is, and in fifty years it'll be worth a fortune, just like those 50's toys you sometimes see going for good money. But he wants to sell it.
So How much should he want for it? And what should he do with the money?
The first is easy. If he's got two buyers, one willing to pay £50 and another £500, why should he choose the lower offer? May that is from a school-girl who can't afford any more, but will use it to learn, which is what this is all about. but maybe the other is from a company that needs a pi to develop teaching materials, which is what this is all about. Or maybe they're both lying. So it's easy - all the market can bear.
The second is also easy. And I'll tell you why.
A while ago I came into some money. Not a huge amount, but it would have got me a Porsche. Or I could have given it to Dogs Trust. Or the RNLI. Actually I bought us a holiday. What a waste, you think. But my wife enjoyed it, and now she's gone at least I can remember it.
So yes it's easy. It's his money, let him do what he wants with it.

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scep
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Re: Im selling my pi

Sun Apr 22, 2012 8:31 am

SereneJ said:


The EBAY seller gets his £150 and essentially his mod approval since sale originated here!


Not deleting the thread is not the same as approving the sale .

The 'approval' of the thread title was simply that we decided not to redact the post. No one has 'approved' anything, not me as a (non-Foundation) individual and not the Foundation in general.

I've now edited the post title so that this misunderstanding won't happen!

JohnW
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Re: Im selling my pi

Sun Apr 22, 2012 8:34 am

john_wage said:


It's true that the people who are in charge of the official retailing of the RPi are mostly responsible for this phenomenon, by being unable to supply even a fraction of the demand at any reasonable pace.


More accurately the foundation are responsible for this by a combination of talent, inspiration and hard work, and for no financial gain, they have created a brand new product, for which there is huge demand. They have already invested large sums of money, to expect them to sell a few internal organs or do a bank job to fund a bigger run is asking a bit much if you ask me.

If you are pointing at Farnell and RS, then it would have been a huge risk to do otherwise. An upfront run of 200k is effectively a £4million pound investment in a brand new product, which they are planning to sell with a very small margin.

People buying a Pi just to make a quick profit is distatsteful, and advertising your auction with an indulgent, self-justification on this form is even worse (if it was approved by the mods, then I have no idea why), but sadly people looking at the PI and seeing a chance to make a few quid on the back of others is part of society - it happens all the time with tickets (from touts selling tickets outside the venue, up to large scale agencies).

On the other hand it does no damage to the foundation, as the same number of Pis get sold. Maybe without the spivs I would have got one of the first batch, but maybe I wouldn't. The big puzzle is why people are so impatient that they will pay 5 or 6 times the retail value just to get one a month early - I have been waiting a year for this to be released, another month or 2 will not make much difference.

Andre_P
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Re: Im selling my pi

Sun Apr 22, 2012 9:07 am

There is no law to stop this trade, and this person has has decided to enact their right to do so.

However if may quote Bannanarama (the young may google them)
"It ain"t what you do it"s the way that you do it"

IMHO I find that it sticks in the craw having someone waft one in my face saying I can"t be bothered to do something with it and then say they are going to make a huge profit on it, especially when they knew before the order I would suggest.

I note that the title has been changed, previously it implied that it had been approved by the Administrators. Looks like that was shall we say somewhat short of reality.

The whole idea just seems to goes against the altruistic perspective of the entire enterprise .

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Burngate
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Re: Im selling my pi

Sun Apr 22, 2012 9:24 am

Andre_P said:

IMHO I find that it sticks in the craw having someone waft one in my face saying I can"t be bothered to do something with it and then say they are going to make a huge profit on it, especially when they knew before the order I would suggest.
...

The whole idea just seems to goes against the altruistic perspective of the entire enterprise .



Altruism. That's the foundation's altruism. You can join in if you want. But what right have you to insist that I join? The point about altruism and charity is that it's a personal choice - mine, not yours.

You don't know the circumstances of the OP, so you can't make judgements about what he's doing

jamesh
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Re: Im selling my pi

Sun Apr 22, 2012 9:42 am

john_wage said:


JamesH said:


So stop commenting on the delays (since you already know why and how), and you won't get people defending/explaining them. Seem like a win win to me.


I don't go around complaining/posting about it, I simply stated earlier in this thread that the very low supply, vs. the very high demand, is the cause that have allowed these "gold diggers" to emerge, re-selling their RPi's.

I was then instantly jumped by at least 3 forum warriors telling me that I'm naive and completely unreasonable for not sympathizing about the delays.

Like I said it's simply a little bit tolling to be such a long wait away from being able to purchase and at the same time have all these vigilant defenders saying that it's all perfectly fine.


Nobody said it was fine. Fine would be selling 350k boards tomorrow and having them delivered by Wednesday. But that's simply NOT POSSIBLE. People have explained why it's the way it is, and why it's probably the BEST that could be expected. What I don't understand, is why people cannot see that. After all, no-one has yet suggested a better scheme (that is legal to implement) - and you cannot crowd fund something that would need $6-$7M upfront.
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SereneJ
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Re: Im selling my pi

Sun Apr 22, 2012 9:58 am

People's impatience is apparently a dangerous thing, getting the better of many!

Impatience perhaps being stoked because of the likes of the thread OP coming on here with the explicit intention to sell their RPi - as opposed to fellow forum members pointing out that there is an EBAY sale which has just ended with said device selling for £240 (whoah btw).

Thanks to the Admin for the thread title clarification - to my eyes it did look like thread OP was looking for blessing - that was my opinion

Agreed that we don't know know the circumstances of the OP, well all the circumstances of the Op - since they have stated the fun is in the chase and not in actually "doing" anything with the RPi in its early infancy.

I for one am just as eager to get my hands on RPi, I have only registered my interest with RS perhaps niavely but I wasn't wanting to hedge my bets.  I'm hoping i'm close to the front of the queue but  honestly have no clue.

With patience we will receive our RPi, which is the ultimate goal, isn't it?  It just requires we all wait that little bit longer - we know production with Farnell & RS is started its just a matter of time.  Equally, in time the huge prices on EBAY will disappear, it was unfortunately inevitable but soon supply will meet demand!

Andre_P
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Re: Im selling my pi

Sun Apr 22, 2012 11:19 am

Burngate : the OP states he did it for the fun of the hunt. As to Altruism yes it"s people"s choice, however the OP appears to be attempting to make a profit on others Alturistic work if not then sell it again at the original sale price plus something for their efforts.
As I stated the OP has done nothing illegal and well within their rights to do what they are doing.
Happy to agree to disagree, I just think what goes around comes around.

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Burngate
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Re: Im selling my pi

Sun Apr 22, 2012 11:39 am

True enough.
If it matters, I won't be buying from him, for two reasons.
One, I'm too miserly, and would rather wait - I've no pressing need, only impatience.
Two, do I think his profit is going to a good cause? No. If it were going to something I agreed with, I might think about it. But given he says his girlfriend is still in school, maybe I would rather support someone who was going to support a kid who hasn't had a chance of school.

Andre_P
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Re: Im selling my pi

Sun Apr 22, 2012 11:59 am

Burngate : Yup I"m hanging fire as well, going to buy a few once the educational kit is available. Then give them to my old school and my step daughter K. I might buy one for myself to get up to speed so I can help K when she needs it.

hippy
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Re: Im selling my pi

Sun Apr 22, 2012 12:35 pm

john_wage said:

It's true that the people who are in charge of the official retailing of the RPi are mostly responsible for this phenomenon, by being unable to supply even a fraction of the demand at any reasonable pace.
john_wage said:

Why would anyone even think that by "the people responsible for the retailing of the RPi" I would mean the foundation? because they"re obviously not.
It's a partnership - Foundation plus licensed manufacturers come retailers - and you cannot simply lay all the blame on the retailers.

The bottom line is the R-Pi was launched when there were none available for actual sale, and in the dust of that it was belatedly discovered that R-Pi as they were could not actually be sold. One could say the situation is a result of a premature launch when everything needed for a successful was not in place.

I've previously said that it looked like a rush job, a determination to get the R-Pi launched by the end of February to meet a self-imposed deadline, and with hindsight it would have been better to have not launched until everything was in place, manufacturers were better prepared to take orders and make deliveries and had been given more realistic indications of potential sales numbers.

I've also said that it's all pretty much irrelevant ( other than in terms of lessons to be learned ) because we have what we have and nothing can change the past.

There's nothing to be gained by trying to lay blame, and it's quite unfair to blame the retailers, who are not in a position to defend themselves or put their side of the story without raking up a potential mud-slinging match which no one wants as that benefits no one.

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VBT
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Re: Im selling my pi

Sun Apr 22, 2012 1:05 pm

Can anyone say "much ado about nothing"? The realities of the situation should be clear to most of us at this point. The release was flawed for a lot of reasons that delayed getting the "product" out to waiting customers. Pointing fingers at anyone at this point is a pretty useless occupation, since the situation will only breed more negatives as long as people become impatient with waiting. What's done is done, no fixing that.

The one real issue in all of this that can be pointed to with any certainty is that interest in the project will drop off due to the delays. It's just basic human nature that people really do not like waiting no matter what the reason and given that, what should be done to keep interest levels up? If interest levels cannot be maintained, then maybe it should be looked at as a positive. After all the original focus of the RPi SBC was to bring an affordable educational based single board python programmable computer into the school system anyway. Educational institutions never move quickly anyway so the delays will not affect them. Curriculum, lesson plans, budgets and implementation all needs to be worked out before that happens, so maybe it's a good thing that interest levels will drop off from the hobbyist groups so that in the end there will be more SBC's available for the actual original intent for them, the classroom.

hippy
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Re: Im selling my pi

Sun Apr 22, 2012 1:40 pm

VBT said:


The one real issue in all of this that can be pointed to with any certainty is that interest in the project will drop off due to the delays. It's just basic human nature that people really do not like waiting no matter what the reason and given that, what should be done to keep interest levels up?


As you say it does seem human nature; you get excited to be going on holiday and then find it's delayed, you're going next month not this, there's disappointment and some inevitable loss of enthusiasm.

It always seems to be when expectations don't meet with reality so perhaps it comes down to a feeling of loss of momentum ? If so the best one can do for people 'having a downer' is to keep them informed on progress and what's being achieved in the meantime which will be useful for them when their R-Pi does arrive in their hands.

For people who just want to use an R-Pi as an application platform there's little else but to wait. For those who want to explore things perhaps set them exploring those things on their PC's so they are better positioned when their R-Pi do arrive ?

Trevor
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Re: Im selling my pi

Sun Apr 22, 2012 2:00 pm

The problem is I am having to consider bidding for this because I am trying to present the device to an Australia wide education conference though was not considered worthy enough to get one in the first batch.

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