mrspaceman
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Re: RaspPi on ebay :(

Fri Apr 20, 2012 11:44 am

(sarcastic mode on)

It's nice to see how people are putting their raspberry pi to good use

(sarcastic mode off)

http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/Comp.....6.c0.m1538

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jojopi
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Re: RaspPi on ebay :(

Fri Apr 20, 2012 12:09 pm

I make that 27 sold now, for an average of 157.70 GBP.  That is far more than I would pay for a Pi.  So logically if mine had arrived I should sell it?

jamesh
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Re: RaspPi on ebay :(

Fri Apr 20, 2012 12:18 pm

Tough one. If you have one but are not desperate to use it, you could sell it and buy 6 more later for the money you make.

I can see why people are doing it. Sell high now, buy low later.
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JoeDaStudd
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Re: RaspPi on ebay :(

Fri Apr 20, 2012 12:21 pm

Personally I'm okay with it as long as the foundation get a decent cut from the proceeds.

I'm not going to lie if I had a RasPi and someone offered me £150+ for it in person I'd be hard pushed to say no.

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Re: RaspPi on ebay :(

Fri Apr 20, 2012 12:29 pm

JamesH said:


Tough one. If you have one but are not desperate to use it, you could sell it and buy 6 more later for the money you make.

I can see why people are doing it. Sell high now, buy low later.



It takes a certain sort of mind to work like that, characterized by words like "selfish", "greedy", "unethical".  In a society, they are not very admirable traits.  On the other hand I can see why someone might want to buy one, even at a high cost.  Its a pity that the folk who are having to buy at inflated prices might have been forced to do so by the behaviour of these "entrepreneurial" vendors.

As you say, I can see why they do it.  However that doesn't take away the longing to teach them not to with a cricket bat.
I'm just a bouncer, splatterers do it with more force.....

jamesh
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Re: RaspPi on ebay :(

Fri Apr 20, 2012 1:01 pm

Jongoleur said:


JamesH said:


Tough one. If you have one but are not desperate to use it, you could sell it and buy 6 more later for the money you make.

I can see why people are doing it. Sell high now, buy low later.


It takes a certain sort of mind to work like that, characterized by words like "selfish", "greedy", "unethical".  In a society, they are not very admirable traits.


Sell high, buy low. That's basically how the stock market works. How your pension works. How almost everything works. Like it or not!
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mole125
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Re: RaspPi on ebay :(

Fri Apr 20, 2012 1:15 pm

Jongoleur said:


JamesH said:


Tough one. If you have one but are not desperate to use it, you could sell it and buy 6 more later for the money you make.

I can see why people are doing it. Sell high now, buy low later.


It takes a certain sort of mind to work like that, characterized by words like "selfish", "greedy", "unethical".  In a society, they are not very admirable traits.  On the other hand I can see why someone might want to buy one, even at a high cost.  Its a pity that the folk who are having to buy at inflated prices might have been forced to do so by the behaviour of these "entrepreneurial" vendors.



While I agree with where you are coming from I don't agree with your logic. Unfortunately in our capitalistic society gaining the most money is considered a very admirable trait. Being extremely successful in business and being an entrepreneur almost requires degrees of these traits, and in pure capitalism it is only the hidden hand of competition which is meant to restrain these traits (someone slightly less greedy can undercut you).

I think also there is a very clear distinction between someone who deliberately purchased a RPi purely with the intention of taking advantage of the supply shortage and reselling it (this is a net negative to society and we probably all agree what should be done with them) and someone who purchased a RPi in good faith and with good intentions and then realise that they probably won't make good productive use of it in the short term. In this second case it could be argued is actually a benefit to society for them to give up their RPi to someone who will get more utility out of it.

It is a natural hard wired tendency in our brains and an essential survival technique to perform cost benefit analysis as to what different items or actions are worth. If the cost is delaying having one for 3 months, and the benefit is cash then it is natural to weigh consider it.

shigllgetcha
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Re: RaspPi on ebay :(

Fri Apr 20, 2012 1:19 pm

God wouldnt have expected people to pay that kinda money.

maybe double if they hadnt preorderd but there are bids at £105+

Joe Schmoe
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Re: RaspPi on ebay :(

Fri Apr 20, 2012 1:22 pm

The core problem is that our society has gotten f'd up, as a result of Reagan and Thatcher elevating those bad qualities into virtues.  That's it in a nutshell.

But the real core question is: Why did the Foundation sell them so cheaply when it was pretty clear to everyone that they could have easily sold them for 3X (or more) the price?  There's a lot more I could say about this, but there is kind of a "you reap what you sow" aspect to all of this.

I've argued from the outset that in the days leading up to 2/29, it was clear to me just from reading the forum, that the demand was going to way outstrip the supply for all of the forseeable future.
And some folks need to stop being fanboys and see the forest behind the trees.

(One of the best lines I've seen on this board lately)

jamesh
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Re: RaspPi on ebay :(

Fri Apr 20, 2012 1:24 pm

shigllgetcha said:


God wouldnt have expected people to pay that kinda money.

maybe double if they hadnt preorderd but there are bids at £105+


God didn't predict the very high demand either, and I've heard she's an Apple fan anyway.
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Re: RaspPi on ebay :(

Fri Apr 20, 2012 1:26 pm

Jongoleur said:

Its a pity that the folk who are having to buy at inflated prices might have been forced to do so by the behaviour of these "entrepreneurial" vendors.
If there is any blame to be handed out for the situation it's not IMO fair to only blame entrepreneurial vendors.

The doors were thrown open to everyone and their dog, developers, scalpers and all-comers. Each were to be considered equal with none having more entitlement to an R-Pi than any other. One can't embrace this notion of equality and later complain about the results of that, especially when the potential outcome was obvious when the decision was taken.

One could argue that those who have an R-Pi, have done nothing with it, and don't intend to use it for the foreseeable future, are worse than scalpers who are at least putting R-Pi back into circulation.

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Re: RaspPi on ebay :(

Fri Apr 20, 2012 1:27 pm

Joe Schmoe said:


The core problem is that our society has gotten f'd up, as a result of Reagan and Thatcher elevating those bad qualities into virtues.  That's it in a nutshell.

But the real core question is: Why did the Foundation sell them so cheaply when it was pretty clear to everyone that they could have easily sold them for 3X (or more) the price?  There's a lot more I could say about this, but there is kind of a "you reap what you sow" aspect to all of this.

I've argued from the outset that in the days leading up to 2/29, it was clear to me just from reading the forum, that the demand was going to way outstrip the supply for all of the forseeable future.


This has been stated before, but the price is the price. That was the price promised, that was the price when it went on sale. And nobody predicted the level of sales actually achieved - which was mainly due top the price! Chicken and egg. When it comes down to it, in two/three months time, you will be able to buy them and get them pretty quickly, and there may have been a hundred or so sold on Ebay for inflated prices. Not a very high percentage once total sales are taken in to account.
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mole125
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Re: RaspPi on ebay :(

Fri Apr 20, 2012 1:28 pm

Joe Schmoe said:


The core problem is that our society has gotten f'd up, as a result of Reagan and Thatcher elevating those bad qualities into virtues.  That's it in a nutshell.

But the real core question is: Why did the Foundation sell them so cheaply when it was pretty clear to everyone that they could have easily sold them for 3X (or more) the price?  There's a lot more I could say about this, but there is kind of a "you reap what you sow" aspect to all of this.

I've argued from the outset that in the days leading up to 2/29, it was clear to me just from reading the forum, that the demand was going to way outstrip the supply for all of the forseeable future.


That has been answered from the beginning.

The Foundation isn't out to make a profit. They are out to produce a device that can get children (and others) programming and getting back in touch with children. From a capitalistic point of view they could have charged more, but by doing so would have immediately priced our their target market.  When they did then reduce the price they would have then had thousands of people complaining that they were scammed into paying the higher price and the foundation were just making a quick buck etc..

It is far better that the price is constant and a bit of a lottery at the start while the supply and demand curves which equilibrium. As things go this is only a tiny blip in the lifetime of the project and is the least worse solution.

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Re: RaspPi on ebay :(

Fri Apr 20, 2012 1:57 pm

My point still stands, despite the last 2 posts.

As I said, you reap what you sow.

The point is, the Foundation has made a statement that they don't care about the scalping - and that's just fine.  And I do note that most of the complaining about the scalping *has* come from people *outside* the Foundation - and the Foundation's response has been pretty consistent - that they don't care.  It doesn't matter (to them).

And, as I say, there's nothing wrong with that.
And some folks need to stop being fanboys and see the forest behind the trees.

(One of the best lines I've seen on this board lately)

rmm200
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Re: RaspPi on ebay :(

Fri Apr 20, 2012 2:28 pm

JamesH said:



  Sell high, buy low. That's basically how the stock market works. How your pension works. How almost everything works. Like it or not!



Dang James!  That explains a lot - I had it backwards all these years! I have always been the "Buy high, sell low" type.

tufty
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Re: RaspPi on ebay :(

Fri Apr 20, 2012 2:34 pm

JamesH said:


Sell high, buy low. That"'s basically how the stock market works. How your pension works. How almost everything works. Like it or not!


The stock market is supposed to work on a basis of "creating value" (or, at least, that'"s how the market makers would have you believe it).  Indeed, from the end of the 1920s through to the beginning of the 1980s, that"'s more or less how the stock market worked.

You invest in a company, the money you invest is used by that company to create value, and as a reward you get a dividend.  If the company is doing well, then there is also the chance that your investment has, itself, gained value, but that was rarely the goal – the "payoff" was that the dividends paid by a company doing well exceed what you would get by simply sticking the money in a bank.

Since the 1980s, though, with increasing deregulation, we have gone back to the good old bad old days of pre-1929 cutthroat capitalism, with the added "bonus" that there'"s nobody with the clout or the money to take on the role of J.P. Morgan.  We'"re currently in a state where capitalism has become zero-sum. It"s broken, situations like the southernEuropean debt crisis are merely minor surface indicators of the endemic rot that lies beneath. Capitalism, in it"s current form, will die.

Anyway, criticisms of the financial system aside, the short term model you are describing is no more and no less than "arbitraging" – buying from one market to sell on another, and (hopefully) gaining a profit from the differential between the two markets.  It has nothing of "investment".

As Jongoleur points out, greed, selfishness and lack of ethics are attributes which would at least lose you friends in common interpersonal relationships.  They might be "desirable" in our materialistic, ever-more greedy model of consumer society (mirroring as it does the broken Reagan/Thatcher capitalist model that underlies it), but that"'s an indictment of society"'s failings, not an indication that there"'s anything wrong with basic interpersonal relations.

So yeah, sure, I understand why the ebay sellers are doing it.  But it doesn"'t make it nice.

Simon

poing
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Re: RaspPi on ebay :(

Fri Apr 20, 2012 2:58 pm

Well, assuming there're 1500 Pis in the wild right now and about 25 are being sold on ebay it's obvious 1475 have found a good home. Count your blessings.

I understand people waiting for their Pi, including me, are a bit disappointed because they actually want to do something with it and the sellers just want to make a quick pound.

My guess is those buying the boards are mostly case designers needing them to fire up their businesses. It's hard for me to picture a 'tinkerer' like myself shelling out 6 times the price of the board as I have a bunch of old computers standing around that are many times faster (and bigger ) than a Pi and I can use them right now to test my Pi projects. Instead I'm typing this message

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Re: RaspPi on ebay :(

Fri Apr 20, 2012 3:17 pm

In the qrp amateur radio community, it is considered poor practice to sell projects developed by non-profit organizations or groups at more than the original cost. For example, one of the founders of Elecraft developed a small single board transceiver for 40 meters called the NC-40A. It sold for $25 if I'm not mistaken by the Norcal QRP group. It was worth much more but the cost was reduced by the 100s of volunteer hours needed to produce the kit.

I still have mine, it still works after 15 years or so. I wouldn't sell it for anything, especially to make a profit.
https://faroutscience.com

poing
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Re: RaspPi on ebay :(

Fri Apr 20, 2012 3:28 pm

I can agree with 'poor practice' but the selling of Pis on ebay is basically a non-issue. It's just, as mentioned before, a logical consequence of the society we live in. Big deal, I would've been surprised (and frightened) if none popped up on ebay. 'Frightened' because it would mean I'd lost contact with reality.

piinthesky
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Re: RaspPi on ebay :(

Fri Apr 20, 2012 4:04 pm

As I pointed out in a previous thread, its not just the sellers that cause the problem.  Its also the buyers.  They just have to have their pi "first" and are willing to pay top dollar for it.  Without that need to have their pi "first" they wouldn't sell on ebay.

Some people look at it as saving them time and money.  All they had to do is search ebay and click buy.  They didn't have to wait in "line" and deal with the distributors.  And since time == money, all that time saved is money saved.

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Re: RaspPi on ebay :(

Fri Apr 20, 2012 4:06 pm

Jongoleur said:


JamesH said:


Tough one. If you have one but are not desperate to use it, you could sell it and buy 6 more later for the money you make.

I can see why people are doing it. Sell high now, buy low later.


It takes a certain sort of mind to work like that, characterized by words like "selfish", "greedy", "unethical".  In a society, they are not very admirable traits.


Yes, it takes a "certain kind of mind".  One that thinks logically. And it is only characterized as "greedy" or "unethical" by "fussy minded socialist" who think the world owes them a living.

I can only think of two types of people who are paying the high prices on eBay.  Collectors who think that the Pi's with early serial numbers are going to become even more valuable or developers who need them now to "get a leg up on the competition".  Either of them could have spent the effort to get in queue early but obviously felt their time was worth more than the amount they are now having to pay to get a Pi early.

It's called the LAW of supply and demand and people who try to break are stupid.

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Re: RaspPi on ebay :(

Fri Apr 20, 2012 4:11 pm

mrspaceman said:


(sarcastic mode on)

It's nice to see how people are putting their raspberry pi to good use

(sarcastic mode off)

http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/Comp.....6.c0.m1538



You must be forgetting that it was the Foundation who first auctioned Pi's on eBay for "exorbitant prices".  Remember the ten "beta" boards?

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scep
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Re: RaspPi on ebay :(

Fri Apr 20, 2012 4:42 pm

lewmur said:


You must be forgetting that it was the Foundation who first auctioned Pi's on eBay for "exorbitant prices".  Remember the ten "beta" boards?


Were those the auctions where every penny went to an educational charity? Nah, don't remember

lewmur
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Re: RaspPi on ebay :(

Fri Apr 20, 2012 5:01 pm

scep said:


lewmur said:


You must be forgetting that it was the Foundation who first auctioned Pi's on eBay for "exorbitant prices".  Remember the ten "beta" boards?


Were those the auctions where every penny went to an educational charity? Nah, don't remember



Kind of obvious seeing that the Foundation IS a charity.  So you feel only charities are allowed to make money?

tufty
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Re: RaspPi on ebay :(

Fri Apr 20, 2012 5:14 pm

lewmur said:


You must be forgetting that it was the Foundation who first auctioned Pi's on eBay for "exorbitant prices".  Remember the ten "beta" boards?


Yep, the "greedy" Foundation auctioned the ten first beta Pis in order to raise funds and help to get the first 10K batch commissioned.  Shocking, obviously; the people who bought them weren't at all making a charitable donation that happened to be rewarded with $35 worth of computer hardware.

lewmur said:


Yes, it takes a "certain kind of mind".  One that thinks logically. And it is only characterized as "greedy" or "unethical" by "fussy minded socialist" who think the world owes them a living.


I can't speak for the others, but I take offence at being referred to as a mere "socialist", fussy-minded or otherwise (or were you meaning to say "fuzzy-minded"), by someone from a country where socialism is considered to be anything to the left of that nice Mr Goebbels. I am, in fact, an actual, flesh-and-blood, baby-eating communist, and any imperialist running dog lackeys out there better remember it.  All the world owes me is a wall to line the rest of it up against.

Simon

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