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Re: Wishes for 2nd gen Raspberry Pi

Posted: Fri Aug 26, 2011 9:28 am
by lingon
The current Raspberry Pi looks very promising and nice. I do understand that to meet the target price almost all available features are coming from the SoC. Still I would like to come with a few wishes that would only be relevant for a 2nd generation Raspberry Pi.

More RAM, 512 or 1024 MB would be great and this might happen once the needed PoP is available.

An integrated microphone input would be very nice, since that is what many children would like to play with. This would eliminate the need for an USB-hub, since the two available ports on the 246 MB model could be used for a keyboard and mouse.

USB2 is great for many things, but it limits the performance of storage to 25-30 MB/s.
Having a combined USB2 eSATAp connector would give the possibility to have good storage I/O performance. Another idea would be to have the new SATA µSSD interface directly embedded on the Raspberry Pi card. This would increase the cost but maybe it could be done for a future more expensive model?
http://www.sata-io.org/documen.....-FINAL.pdf

My first computer was also using composite video with a rather bad picture quality, so I would second the wish to use S-video instead of composite video for the analog video output expressed elsewhere in this forum. This should be only a small change to make in the SoC for future versions.

Re: Wishes for 2nd gen Raspberry Pi

Posted: Fri Aug 26, 2011 10:00 am
by RobinJ
... All you guys care about is having a super fast computer for the least possible price, don't you? -.-
The Raspberry Pi is meant for people who want to use it to learn how to program. Not to play games and stuff ;) And for programming, 256MB of RAM is plenty if you use a decent programming language ;)
Not trying to be mean or something, but that's how it is, deal with it.

Re: Wishes for 2nd gen Raspberry Pi

Posted: Fri Aug 26, 2011 10:27 am
by obarthelemy

Re: Wishes for 2nd gen Raspberry Pi

Posted: Fri Aug 26, 2011 1:34 pm
by Gert van Loo
Well... if we are talking wishes...
I want to take the GPU (As it is top of the range and good enough for a few years to come), replace the ARM11 with... lets says a Cortex-A9 running at 1GHz. Throw in a big instruction and data cache and produce the whole thing on the next smaller geometry of the ASIC process.
Somehow I don't think Broadcom will give me a design team and a few million to do that.
(On the other hand: If we sell a few million of the current version they might do it...)

Re: Wishes for 2nd gen Raspberry Pi

Posted: Fri Aug 26, 2011 1:56 pm
by liz
And I want a pony.

Re: Wishes for 2nd gen Raspberry Pi

Posted: Fri Aug 26, 2011 2:01 pm
by ukscone
Quote from liz on August 26, 2011, 14:56
And I want a pony.

under hollandaise or béarnaise. :D

(ok i'll go sit in the naughty corner now for being a sick puppy)

Re: Wishes for 2nd gen Raspberry Pi

Posted: Fri Aug 26, 2011 2:03 pm
by Svartalf
Quote from liz on August 26, 2011, 14:56
And I want a pony.

Can't help you there, Liz...but if you're interested in a Champion caliber Western style Arabian or Half-Arabian, I can hook you up for a decent price so long as you additionally pay transport for the colt or filly... ;)

Re: Wishes for 2nd gen Raspberry Pi

Posted: Fri Aug 26, 2011 2:04 pm
by Svartalf
Quote from ukscone on August 26, 2011, 15:01
under hollandaise or béarnaise. :D


I just knew the Wrong (something kinda like the Force) was strong with you... ;)

Re: Wishes for 2nd gen Raspberry Pi

Posted: Fri Aug 26, 2011 2:42 pm
by abishur
As long as we're talking about wishes, I could go for a Kindle. ;)

We're not trying to pick on you lingon, these very points have been brought up several times over in the "what have we missed" thread. We all would love to have these be cutting edge and beefy, but as was stated above, these are to encourage programming and computer competency not compete with the cutting edge computers. I know 256 MB of RAM can seem restrictive, but you'd be amazed at what Linux can do on little a little RAM. I see RAM limitation as a good thing as it will encourage aggressive coding practices rather than the current "it can handle it" mindset of programmers where the simplest program takes 4 GB of disk space and half a Gig of RAM just to sit there. Welcome to the forum! Don't forget to browse around as there are lots of interesting topics floating around!

Re: Wishes for 2nd gen Raspberry Pi

Posted: Fri Aug 26, 2011 3:16 pm
by IRBaboon
Quote from Gert van Loo on August 26, 2011, 14:34
Well... if we are talking wishes...
I want to take the GPU (As it is top of the range and good enough for a few years to come), replace the ARM11 with... lets says a Cortex-A9 running at 1GHz. Throw in a big instruction and data cache and produce the whole thing on the next smaller geometry of the ASIC process.
Somehow I don't think Broadcom will give me a design team and a few million to do that.
(On the other hand: If we sell a few million of the current version they might do it...)

There you go!

Broadcom
BCM11311 - Persona™ ICE Application Processor
Persona™ ICE Application Processor

The BCM11311 is the flagship in the Persona® ICE (Information Connectivity Entertainment) applications processor family for high performance multimedia products. Persona ICE enables industry-leading 3D graphics performance and full-featured multimedia (including 1080p video encode and decode) with a superior audio experience, all while maintaining low power consumption.

Designed in a low power 40 nanometer (40nm) CMOS silicon process, the BCM11311 consists of a Dual ARM Cortex A9 at 1 GHz processor integrated with Broadcom's industry-leading VideoCore® IV graphics and multimedia subsystem and a rich set of peripheral interfaces. The BCM11311, along with Broadcom MediaxChange™ software, result in a low-power SoCs and software that cater to a variety of markets and applications in the Enterprise and Consumer segments, including high definition IP Video phones and Multimedia Tablets.

Features
Applications

Dual ARM Cortex A9 at 1 GHz
Integrated VideoCore® IV embedded processor
1080p 30 fps video encode and decode
3D Graphics: OpenGL® ES 1.1/2.0 support
TeakLite-III® DSP at 400 MHz
Hardware security
Audio codecs
Low-power 40 nm process

Did i miss something? :?

Re: Wishes for 2nd gen Raspberry Pi

Posted: Fri Aug 26, 2011 3:31 pm
by ukscone
Quote from Svartalf on August 26, 2011, 15:04
Quote from ukscone on August 26, 2011, 15:01
under hollandaise or béarnaise. :D


I just knew the Wrong (something kinda like the Force) was strong with you... ;)

i don't know whether you can still get it any more but when i was a nipper in england (in the 70s at primary/junior school) there was a deli meat (cold cut) called hazlet that we used to tease anyone who had it in a sandwich was horse meat :)

aren't kids mean? :)

Re: Wishes for 2nd gen Raspberry Pi

Posted: Fri Aug 26, 2011 3:50 pm
by Jongoleur
@ ukscone:

Haslet?

The stuff is still available (I saw it in my local Morrisons the other day), its a cheap pork luncheon meat. Wikipedia says "Haslet, also spelt 'Acelet', is a pork meatloaf with herbs originally from Lincolnshire, England. The name is derived from the Old French for entrails", which I think can be classed as "too much information"...

Re: Wishes for 2nd gen Raspberry Pi

Posted: Fri Aug 26, 2011 3:53 pm
by ukscone
Quote from Jongoleur on August 26, 2011, 16:50
@ ukscone:

Haslet?

The stuff is still available (I saw it in my local Morrisons the other day), its a cheap pork luncheon meat. Wikipedia says "Haslet, also spelt 'Acelet', is a pork meatloaf with herbs originally from Lincolnshire, England. The name is derived from the Old French for entrails", which I think can be classed as "too much information"...


yeeah that's the stuff -- never could spell.

it looks like a grey meaty stuffing-y stuff -- although it is ok with cole slaw on a sandwich but then again everything is good with cole slaw

Re: Wishes for 2nd gen Raspberry Pi

Posted: Fri Aug 26, 2011 4:48 pm
by obarthelemy
I've eaten horse once. At least one butcher per French town will sell horse meat ("boucherie chevaline"). It tastes OK, maybe a bit stronger than beef. I never ate it again 'coz I used to ride, and I love the (live ^^) animals. I'm guessig most French people never eat that.
Plus it's much more fun to eat steak tartare, especially in front of English/US visitors ^^
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S.....ak_tartare

Re: Wishes for 2nd gen Raspberry Pi

Posted: Fri Aug 26, 2011 4:48 pm
by David Calvo
Quote from liz on August 26, 2011, 14:56
And I want a pony.
but 25$ cost!!!

Re: Wishes for 2nd gen Raspberry Pi

Posted: Fri Aug 26, 2011 4:53 pm
by Svartalf
Quote from David Calvo on August 26, 2011, 17:48
Quote from liz on August 26, 2011, 14:56
And I want a pony.
but 25$ cost!!!

<*snicker*> Good luck on THAT particular wish... ;)

Re: Wishes for 2nd gen Raspberry Pi

Posted: Fri Aug 26, 2011 4:55 pm
by Svartalf
Quote from IRBaboon on August 26, 2011, 16:16
Did i miss something? :?


Nope. Only problem is that if you used this part, you're talking a BeagleBoard/PandaBoard price right now. :D

Re: Wishes for 2nd gen Raspberry Pi

Posted: Fri Aug 26, 2011 5:37 pm
by stuporhero
Quote from abishur on August 26, 2011, 15:42
As long as we're talking about wishes, I could go for a Kindle. ;)

We're not trying to pick on you lingon, these very points have been brought up several times over in the "what have we missed" thread. We all would love to have these be cutting edge and beefy, but as was stated above, these are to encourage programming and computer competency not compete with the cutting edge computers. I know 256 MB of RAM can seem restrictive, but you'd be amazed at what Linux can do on little a little RAM. I see RAM limitation as a good thing as it will encourage aggressive coding practices rather than the current "it can handle it" mindset of programmers where the simplest program takes 4 GB of disk space and half a Gig of RAM just to sit there. Welcome to the forum! Don't forget to browse around as there are lots of interesting topics floating around!

Agreed. The amazing games that appeared on the Amiga... That had 512KiB (then 1MiB, then 2MiB) and it could do amazing stuff.

It's down to the programmer to be efficient. Not the computer.

P.S. No +1 button for posts?

Re: Wishes for 2nd gen Raspberry Pi

Posted: Fri Aug 26, 2011 5:41 pm
by Svartalf
Quote from stuporhero on August 26, 2011, 18:37
It's down to the programmer to be efficient. Not the computer.

Heh... Indeed. I did some pretty amazing things with my ZX-80 kit, before I got the 16k upgrade...then it got more interesting... :-D

Re: Wishes for 2nd gen Raspberry Pi

Posted: Fri Aug 26, 2011 7:28 pm
by jamesh
Quote from Svartalf on August 26, 2011, 17:55
Quote from IRBaboon on August 26, 2011, 16:16
Did i miss something? :?


Nope. Only problem is that if you used this part, you're talking a BeagleBoard/PandaBoard price right now. :D

And I don't believe that part is available yet.

Re: Wishes for 2nd gen Raspberry Pi

Posted: Sat Aug 27, 2011 4:19 am
by bnolsen
Next generation should be just like this one. Take advantage of an accessible SOC. Hopefully by then we get stuff like embedded dram, embedded wireless, embedded voltage regulation, usb7.0, pci-e 9.0, sata 42Tb, etc which requires even fewer chips and traces.

Re: Wishes for 2nd gen Raspberry Pi

Posted: Sat Aug 27, 2011 11:39 am
by reggie
Got to agree with almost everyone here, you can do loads with very little memory, I got doom running on 3 arm9 devices with 8MB, 32MB and 64MB ram respectively. 8MB unit required a swap file.

Re: Wishes for 2nd gen Raspberry Pi

Posted: Sat Aug 27, 2011 3:59 pm
by Lakes
People will want to add loads more stuff to the base unit, so have the next gen with stackable expansion boards like the ardunio shields.

Re: Wishes for 2nd gen Raspberry Pi

Posted: Sat Aug 27, 2011 4:26 pm
by liz
We're really enthusiastic about the idea of expansion boards, but it's definitely something for later down the line.

Re: Wishes for 2nd gen Raspberry Pi

Posted: Tue Aug 30, 2011 1:02 am
by Enlightenment
-removed-