willrandship
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Re: Wishes for 2nd gen Raspberry Pi

Sat Sep 24, 2011 8:05 am

You can do so through USB with adapters. They're quite inexpensive. Only concern there is whether the r-pi can boot off of USB. It should be as fast as the SD card.

I would love to see some IO pins, so you could do some hardware stuff as well as software. Then the R-Pi could easily take out the arduino with sheer power.

mat80c
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Re: Wishes for 2nd gen Raspberry Pi

Sat Sep 24, 2011 8:10 am

I think that most of these request will probably make it into the Pi at some stage, however what are we gonna feed the pony on.
My personal request is for backwards compatibility, software for the model a, should run on the model c/d/e/f and so on.

willrandship
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Re: Wishes for 2nd gen Raspberry Pi

Sat Sep 24, 2011 8:19 am

I wouldn't worry too much: It doesn't look like it'll be leaving the broadcom SoC anytime soon, and pretty much all the suggestions here are for more hardware besides that. Compatibilty shouldn't have any issues at all.

jamesh
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Re: Wishes for 2nd gen Raspberry Pi

Sat Sep 24, 2011 12:59 pm

Quote from mat80c on September 24, 2011, 09:10
I think that most of these request will probably make it into the Pi at some stage, however what are we gonna feed the pony on.
My personal request is for backwards compatibility, software for the model a, should run on the model c/d/e/f and so on.


Don't think that will be a problem as long as you stick to the standard Linux libraries (which most people will be able to do, even for accelerated 3D with OpenGLES). Even if the processor architecture changes (away from Arm), then it would be a straight forward recompile for the new board. If the architecture stays Arm, then the binaries should run OK.
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nobbit
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Re: Wishes for 2nd gen Raspberry Pi

Mon Sep 26, 2011 6:43 am

I have a wish for the Raspberry Pi 2 that doesn't involve any impossible hardware (or even a pony):
Name it Raspberry Tau (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T.....80%29).

Other than that I'd like to see how small it's possible to make it and retain a reasonable amount of connectors.

nullstring
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Re: Wishes for 2nd gen Raspberry Pi

Sun Oct 02, 2011 4:41 pm

Just to add to the Fray... I see the potential for this platform to be an extremely cheap file server.
A replacement for those old PC's many of us have running wasting resources all day long.

My requests are, in order of priority.
-Sata ports (2 or more)
-gb ethernet
-more usb ports. (4 total would be good)
-second ethernet port (preferably gb)

These four additions would make it perfect for
-Generic Server/File Server
-Router
-Media Tank

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Lob0426
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Re: Wishes for 2nd gen Raspberry Pi

Sun Oct 02, 2011 5:08 pm

@nobbit, it is possible to reduce the size considerably if you removed the connectors from the equation, but then you have to create dongles, or they have to create dongles to get the connectors. I believe this would lower the price of the board as the PCB could be smaller. The dongles would bring that price back up and add some more to the total price of a complete unit. Overall, more expensive. Dongles also have not proven to be very robust in consideration of service life. Remember the ultimate goal is to place these in the hands of children. A lost dongle means an unusable RasPi. Everything is a compromise as you reduce the size of a product. Some compromises work out and some don't.

One compromise they could have made was to produce only A models. Then you would have had to buy a more expensive USB hub that had a built in Ethernet or a USB Ethernet dongle. The A model could have been built on a different size PCB but this would have caused them to produce two different cases. As I said it is all about compromise.
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Re: Wishes for 2nd gen Raspberry Pi

Sun Oct 02, 2011 9:52 pm

Quote from abishur on August 26, 2011, 15:42
As long as we're talking about wishes, I could go for a Kindle. ;)

We're not trying to pick on you lingon, these very points have been brought up several times over in the "what have we missed" thread. We all would love to have these be cutting edge and beefy, but as was stated above, these are to encourage programming and computer competency not compete with the cutting edge computers. I know 256 MB of RAM can seem restrictive, but you'd be amazed at what Linux can do on little a little RAM. I see RAM limitation as a good thing as it will encourage aggressive coding practices rather than the current "it can handle it" mindset of programmers where the simplest program takes 4 GB of disk space and half a Gig of RAM just to sit there. Welcome to the forum! Don't forget to browse around as there are lots of interesting topics floating around!

Really! well try 128K RAM as a starting point then getting 640K expansion and thinking what on earth can I program with all this memory, I will never use it all :)

You are absolutely right, lazy programming encourages upping the spec of the host machine to compensate. Look at the software that was being made for the ZX Spectrum especially when limited by 16K, the coding got tighter the games just got better and better.

All I need for my QL emulation running on a RP will be 16M tops, 256 is more than adequate. Can't wait.:)


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Vindicator
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Re: Wishes for 2nd gen Raspberry Pi

Mon Oct 03, 2011 2:30 am

I would like to see 512mb of memory as it would open up more applications on the raspi for its use.
I'm sure that double the memory might also raise the price double as well, as for usb 3.0 etc. what would be the advantage of these components that a 700mhz processor will not be the limiting factor, even at 1ghz I would guess that usb3.0 would be far faster than the processor would be able to feed the 3.0 especially since usb 3.0 is only available on the more expensive PC motherboards and even the smallest/cheapest HDD cost far more than a Raspi.
If you are more worried about ,spelling, punctuation or grammar you have probably already missed the point so please just move on.

tnelsond
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Re: Wishes for 2nd gen Raspberry Pi

Mon Oct 03, 2011 3:34 am

Quote from Vindicator on October 3, 2011, 03:30
I would like to see 512mb of memory as it would open up more applications on the raspi for its use.
I don't agree. I can't really think of anything that would need 512mb of memory apart from obscene multitasking (20 tabs in a web browser while editing 10 photos and playing a game).
Although I am probably just ignorant. Enlighten me on what one could do with that much memory.

kme
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Re: Wishes for 2nd gen Raspberry Pi

Mon Oct 03, 2011 4:01 am

@tnelsond
"I can't really think of anything that would need 512mb of memory apart from obscene multitasking"

Oh really? What's the purpose of raspi? Teaching kids to program? Well, why don't you try to run a Debian with a small DE like LXDE (forget anything like Gnome), an IDE, a compiler like, say, gcc, a debugger like gdb and a reasonably useful browser to look up error messages or programming examples. Simultaneously - otherwise you can't do anything sensible as newbie.

Then return to me if you can do this in 256 MB.

willrandship
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Re: Wishes for 2nd gen Raspberry Pi

Mon Oct 03, 2011 7:45 am

Debian running Gnome isn't really realistic, but Debian on LXDE can still look really nice, and be under 50MB. 200 MB is plenty for applications specifically optimized for a device, which will be possible since the RPi is going to have extremely specific hardware. GCC will run fine, a decent IDE like Geany or codeblocks will run fine, and a low-ram browser like Fennec or other mobile browsers (which will already be written for ARM platforms anyways, and therefore will be easier to port) And it will do all of these simeultaneously. Handily, I might add.

I clocked code::Blocks at 25 MB, and newbies won't have obscenely large project files, so the ram usage should never spike above 50 MB in a newbie scenario.
GCC has multiple memory options running as low as 64 MB.
LXDE uses, what, another 60 MB? Especially if trimmed down for the R-Pi.
That leaves another 82 MB for web browsing, which, I believe, could be done fairly easily, especially since GCC won't be running while you're looking stuff up. (although the reverse is a potential possibility: Having the browser open while you compile would use that ram)

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Re: Wishes for 2nd gen Raspberry Pi

Mon Oct 03, 2011 8:44 am

All this talk of IDE's...

I used VS6 for years, Eclipse for a while, but now just use an (good) editor and command line stuff. But I do work embedded.

There is no inherent need for an IDE, although some things do become easier with them (GUI debugging comes to mind)

And as for that list of things running at the same time? Well, I don't run a compile and a debug session at the same time on my 4 core 4GB desktop - it slows it down too much...

So the only things you really need going are the desktop, editor, browser and either gcc or gdb. And you are only using one at a time usually, so the memory is swapped. Not perfect on 256MB, but not impossible.

And had we mentioned that 512MB isn't currently available to buy as a PoP package??
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obarthelemy
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Re: Wishes for 2nd gen Raspberry Pi

Mon Oct 03, 2011 3:49 pm

I think in the end it would turn out cheaper in most cases to have an old-style keyboard-contained PC, with a (spill- and dust-proof) washable keyboard (something MS Arc-size), an integrated pointing device, at least 1 USB port available (2 or 3 would be much better), and a PSU. And maybe wifi (or internal space to safely tuck in a dongle or two to keep them safe while lugging the thing around ?) or ethernet.

The apparent cheapness is whittled away once you add all the required peripherals and doodads, especially since the Pi begs for relatively special items (small keyboard with integrated pointer, specific wifi dongles...). Unless you can scrounge them, which I doubt many will be able to do.

Also, the small size is defeated by all the extras you have to carry around. Not a problem for hackers, but for kids and school clubs, yes.

willrandship
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Re: Wishes for 2nd gen Raspberry Pi

Mon Oct 03, 2011 6:12 pm

Believe it or not, the r-pi's main purpose was not to be an ultimately portable handheld device. Size is a lesser concern than cost. The small size is far more convenient for hardware projects, as well as shipping costs. The idea was always to bring students interested in programming a cheap way to do so. An R-Pi for $25 plus a cheap keyboard and mouse (around $5-$10 from newegg) gets them this, hooking it up to a tv.

obarthelemy
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Re: Wishes for 2nd gen Raspberry Pi

Mon Oct 03, 2011 6:19 pm

nope, you also need a PSU, and a USB hub, and a case. That's for the minimum config, with an added SD card.

Also, I think the Pi will be carried around a lot by its intended users. The whole classroom, connect to a TV, for kids... ponts to that, at least to me. I know way back when my ZX 81 was moved around a lot, and that's without taking it to school.

We agree that cost is, rightly, the main concern. I just think that the relevant cost is not that of lone mainboard, but of a workable config. I think that a ready-made workable config could turn out cheaper premade by Pi, and more sturdy.

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abishur
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Re: Wishes for 2nd gen Raspberry Pi

Mon Oct 03, 2011 7:23 pm

well... a USB hub if you need more ports (I don't :P ) and PSU if you don't have a spare ;)
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willrandship
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Re: Wishes for 2nd gen Raspberry Pi

Mon Oct 03, 2011 7:31 pm

Yeah, you missed the fact that the R-Pi's chip is being sold to them at a ridiculously low price for its specs.

obarthelemy
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Re: Wishes for 2nd gen Raspberry Pi

Mon Oct 03, 2011 7:55 pm

a hub in any case, since the Model A only has 1 port. Unless you can make do without a mouse (probably not), or buy a keyboard with an integrated pointer (but that's gonna be more than $10. Or $20.)

I do realize that the Pi is very cheap for all it offers. Having to buy all those extras make it less inexpensive, and less practical to carry around.

I'm not talking about my own personal case here, mine will be smarttops stuck behind a screen, or keyboardless, headless servers. And I understand hardware hackers want easy access to the internals, which it is with the A and B.

I think the official Pi goal to have kids own their own and computer clubs/classes using them too will involve a lot of setting up and packing off, and carrying around.

I rest my case.

manfreed
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Re: Wishes for 2nd gen Raspberry Pi

Thu Oct 27, 2011 10:01 am

Quote from RobinJ on August 26, 2011, 11:00
... All you guys care about is having a super fast computer for the least possible price, don't you? -.-
The Raspberry Pi is meant for people who want to use it to learn how to program. Not to play games and stuff ;) And for programming, 256MB of RAM is plenty if you use a decent programming language ;)
Not trying to be mean or something, but that's how it is, deal with it.

256 Mb is enough if you are using a plain text editor, and command line. What about IDE-s, GUI-s, etc? You can't put someone before a computer and thell them to use vi.

And I suppose we don't want more ram if it makes the pi more expensive. But why we shouldn't get more, if it doesn't make too much difference.

The pi is for learning, sure, but look around, people here found other things to use it. I'm pretty sure I'll buy at least 4-5, so I can have a multimedia server at work, one file server at home, one work computer for my parents, and so on.

hsalonen
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Re: Wishes for 2nd gen Raspberry Pi

Thu Oct 27, 2011 10:43 am

HD44780 compatible pins (+ cable). That being just the most supported character LCD display out there.

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abishur
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Re: Wishes for 2nd gen Raspberry Pi

Thu Oct 27, 2011 12:36 pm

I would have thought a LVDS interface would be the most commonly used interface for LCD screens. Maybe we're thinking of different types of lcd screens?
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RichC
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Re: Wishes for 2nd gen Raspberry Pi

Thu Oct 27, 2011 2:07 pm

HD44780 is for small LCDs such as 16x2 character, more useful for embedded devices. I've just bought a 20x4 character blue LCD to display fan speeds etc http://lcdsmartie.sourceforge.net/ and it came without a connector, so some soldering is required. You just need to connect GPIO pins: 4 or 8 bits of data, 3 control (RS, E, R/W), and optionally a pin to turn the backlight on/off.

kattle87
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Re: Wishes for 2nd gen Raspberry Pi

Thu Oct 27, 2011 6:44 pm

Quote from obarthelemy on October 3, 2011, 20:55
I do realize that the Pi is very cheap for all it offers. Having to buy all those extras make it less inexpensive, and less practical to carry around.

I think the official Pi goal to have kids own their own and computer clubs/classes using them too will involve a lot of setting up and packing off, and carrying around.

I rest my case.

You sir are 100% right. I can see a smart kid in the middle-class family finally deciding to give his brand new PI a try and start programing.
"Daaad, can I borrow your keyboard and mouse?" "No way Dan, sorry, but dad has to do lots of work with his desktop PC right now!"
"Mooom, can I get your phone charger?" "Oh sweetie, mom's mobile is charging! And now mom is cleaning the kitchen, could you go play with your things elsewhere? I know you need a TV, you can use the living room's one!"
"Hey brother, could you please let me use the TV?" "HELL NO! CAN'T YOU SEE I'M GAMING ON MY AWESOME <console name here>!?!? I'M KICKING A**** I CAN'T STOP NOW! Go cry to your sister!"
"Rosie, can't you please let me use your screen and USB hub?" "Oh, Daniel, there's this awesome show going on and in the mean time I'm chatting and putting pictures of facebook, I need my usb because my fashion Netbook only has one USB and I can't use my mouse, webcam and camera at the same time"
After this Daniel decides it's a good day to lock in his room and read some comics.

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Re: Wishes for 2nd gen Raspberry Pi

Thu Oct 27, 2011 8:27 pm

The above post offers an accurate prevision of what will be the life of most future Raspberry Pi owners, at least in my opinion. :)

On the other side, for those who are lucky enough to have their own USB hub (something I don't have at my house! We have enough USB ports so far), USB keyboard and mouse, and a Composite/HDMI/DVI screen (plus appropriate cable), Raspberry will be delicious.

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