Enlightenment
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Re: Wishes for 2nd gen Raspberry Pi

Tue Aug 30, 2011 1:04 am

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Enlightenment
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Re: Wishes for 2nd gen Raspberry Pi

Tue Aug 30, 2011 1:05 am

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miauto
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Re: Wishes for 2nd gen Raspberry Pi

Tue Aug 30, 2011 12:12 pm

Quote from Gert van Loo on August 26, 2011, 14:34
Well... if we are talking wishes...
I want to take the GPU (As it is top of the range and good enough for a few years to come), replace the ARM11 with... lets says a Cortex-A9 running at 1GHz. Throw in a big instruction and data cache and produce the whole thing on the next smaller geometry of the ASIC process.
Somehow I don't think Broadcom will give me a design team and a few million to do that.
(On the other hand: If we sell a few million of the current version they might do it...)

Hi Gert,

maybe not a Cortex-A9, but i think everybody would be happy if the second generation could achieve the usb dongle size and some usb power circuit to connect external batteries like modern phones :-). Both of this characteristics would be awesome and realistic :-).

hajj_3
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Re: Wishes for 2nd gen Raspberry Pi

Tue Aug 30, 2011 5:45 pm

it would be nice to see a block diagram for the broadcom chip to see what connectors it is capable of supporting as i'm sure some people could redesign the pcb to add extra things. Use a hot-air gun to desolder the processor and other bits and add new bits and put them on a new pcb.

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Re: Wishes for 2nd gen Raspberry Pi

Tue Aug 30, 2011 6:38 pm

I guess I am kinda mundane here. I would be happy with 1Ghz 512MB and the cheapest mass storage like LIF/ZIF. LIF/ZIF is more then possible as it is in the iPod classics. A lot of request for USB 3.0, but it isn't even standard on any but the highest end motherboards yet. SATA 1 would be nice but is it available in a chipset other than an I/O controller.

Now as for USB 7.0 what are the specs for it. lol
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hajj_3
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Re: Wishes for 2nd gen Raspberry Pi

Tue Aug 30, 2011 9:48 pm

usb3 is on amd fm1 socket boards by default, those start at £60.

1ghz/512mb ram would be very nice indeed. 16GB nand flash is really cheap now ($2.68) i think, this would be loads of storage and would have incredibly fast access and sustained transfer speeds. It would remove the need for an SD slot and a SD card so the cost of NAND flash would be pretty much wiped out assuming you buy a 2gb sd card when you buy a raspberry pi.

Not many chips support ddr3 atm but once they do you can get 2GB ddr3 for $1 ish i believe.

these prices are from http://www.dramexchange.com. Hopefully i'm reading the correct info off there.

Wouldn't complain at gigabit, we'd need to wait for a newer chip to have gigabit built-in as the cost of a gigabit chip wouldn't really be justified for most people.

jacklang
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Re: Wishes for 2nd gen Raspberry Pi

Tue Aug 30, 2011 9:59 pm

I think you might be confused between bits (b) and bytes (B)

simonckenyon
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Re: Wishes for 2nd gen Raspberry Pi

Wed Aug 31, 2011 8:10 am

i would like any new device to have a form factor where all the connectors (including the SD card) are all on the one side.

if it could fit in a box less that 100mm x 100mm that would also be good. i'm thinking that a good place to put such a device is on the back of a monitor and the VESA mount has screws in a square 100cm x 100cm.

andhavarapu
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Re: Wishes for 2nd gen Raspberry Pi

Wed Aug 31, 2011 11:59 am

If i remember seeing correct elsewhere on the news, does the current SoC do 1080p video or its just 1080p display output?

hsalonen
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Re: Wishes for 2nd gen Raspberry Pi

Wed Aug 31, 2011 12:09 pm

Wifi.

Usb header:


Case, plastic is fine.

Current hardware is fine. You are not making a general purpose desktop computer, but a nice development board.

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Re: Wishes for 2nd gen Raspberry Pi

Wed Aug 31, 2011 12:44 pm

Quote from andhavarapu on August 31, 2011, 12:59
If i remember seeing correct elsewhere on the news, does the current SoC do 1080p video or its just 1080p display output?

1080P decode (as a minimum H264, but MP4, H263 and VP8 are supported too I think), along with a number of container formats, not sure which ones. I need to find out.
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uthor
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Re: Wishes for 2nd gen Raspberry Pi

Fri Sep 02, 2011 4:51 am

My first computer was also using composite video with a rather bad picture quality, so I would second the wish to use S-video instead of composite video for the analog video output expressed elsewhere in this forum. This should be only a small change to make in the SoC for future versions.

S-Video has the same resolution as composite, so it won't look any better, and has all but disapeared from usage on modern TVs. S-video was relatively popular for about half a decade. Composite inputs are available on pretty much every TV made in the last 20-25 years.

Lakes
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Re: Wishes for 2nd gen Raspberry Pi

Fri Sep 02, 2011 9:53 am

S-video is slightly better than composite in that it carries the colour and brightness on separate channels.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S-Video

I agree that composite is the more widely available connection though.

DanielSilva
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Re: Wishes for 2nd gen Raspberry Pi

Fri Sep 02, 2011 2:40 pm

SATA 1 would be nice but is it available in a chipset other than an I/O controller.

If you don't mind loosing the integrated ethernet ports there are usb to sata bridge ic's but you would need to get ethernet from somewhere else though. Don't know how much costs this would add though.

Svartalf
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Re: Wishes for 2nd gen Raspberry Pi

Fri Sep 02, 2011 4:03 pm

</sigh>

Guys...you DO realise that the bulk of all of these things you all are asking for will require a new SoC that may/may not be in the price range that is the one we're looking at right now- and if it is, it'll be 2-3 years down the road. Right? :D

Most mobile device SoC's don't have USB3. Yet.
Most mobile device SoC's don't do SATA. Yet.
All mobile device SoC's don't do PCIe. Only the industrial/embedded device parts (or parts tasked to do both markets, like the Tegra 2...) do this.

Most everything you guys are asking for requires it being on the chip or to have PCIe provided and then add a PCIe switch to accomodate multiple PCIe endpoints.

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Re: Wishes for 2nd gen Raspberry Pi

Sun Sep 11, 2011 5:27 am

Quote from IRBaboon on August 26, 2011, 16:16
Quote from Gert van Loo on August 26, 2011, 14:34
Well... if we are talking wishes...
I want to take the GPU (As it is top of the range and good enough for a few years to come), replace the ARM11 with... lets says a Cortex-A9 running at 1GHz. Throw in a big instruction and data cache and produce the whole thing on the next smaller geometry of the ASIC process.
Somehow I don't think Broadcom will give me a design team and a few million to do that.
(On the other hand: If we sell a few million of the current version they might do it...)

There you go!

Broadcom
BCM11311 - Persona™ ICE Application Processor
Persona™ ICE Application Processor

The BCM11311 is the flagship in the Persona® ICE (Information Connectivity Entertainment) applications processor family for high performance multimedia products. Persona ICE enables industry-leading 3D graphics performance and full-featured multimedia (including 1080p video encode and decode) with a superior audio experience, all while maintaining low power consumption.

Designed in a low power 40 nanometer (40nm) CMOS silicon process, the BCM11311 consists of a Dual ARM Cortex A9 at 1 GHz processor integrated with Broadcom's industry-leading VideoCore® IV graphics and multimedia subsystem and a rich set of peripheral interfaces. The BCM11311, along with Broadcom MediaxChange™ software, result in a low-power SoCs and software that cater to a variety of markets and applications in the Enterprise and Consumer segments, including high definition IP Video phones and Multimedia Tablets.

Features
Applications

Dual ARM Cortex A9 at 1 GHz
Integrated VideoCore® IV embedded processor
1080p 30 fps video encode and decode
3D Graphics: OpenGL® ES 1.1/2.0 support
TeakLite-III® DSP at 400 MHz
Hardware security
Audio codecs
Low-power 40 nm process

Did i miss something? :?


As long as we are granting wishes, would it be possible to get a version based on the Tegra 2? Also having a MIPS version would be very nice.

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emercer
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Re: Wishes for 2nd gen Raspberry Pi

Sun Sep 11, 2011 12:31 pm

Quote from hsalonen on August 31, 2011, 13:09
Wifi.

Usb header:


I'm all for header strips on all ports (kind of a DIY-ers version)!

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Re: Wishes for 2nd gen Raspberry Pi

Sun Sep 11, 2011 2:19 pm

Quote from ryao on September 11, 2011, 06:27
Quote from IRBaboon on August 26, 2011, 16:16
Quote from Gert van Loo on August 26, 2011, 14:34
Well... if we are talking wishes...
I want to take the GPU (As it is top of the range and good enough for a few years to come), replace the ARM11 with... lets says a Cortex-A9 running at 1GHz. Throw in a big instruction and data cache and produce the whole thing on the next smaller geometry of the ASIC process.
Somehow I don't think Broadcom will give me a design team and a few million to do that.
(On the other hand: If we sell a few million of the current version they might do it...)

There you go!

Broadcom
BCM11311 - Persona™ ICE Application Processor
Persona™ ICE Application Processor

The BCM11311 is the flagship in the Persona® ICE (Information Connectivity Entertainment) applications processor family for high performance multimedia products. Persona ICE enables industry-leading 3D graphics performance and full-featured multimedia (including 1080p video encode and decode) with a superior audio experience, all while maintaining low power consumption.

Designed in a low power 40 nanometer (40nm) CMOS silicon process, the BCM11311 consists of a Dual ARM Cortex A9 at 1 GHz processor integrated with Broadcom's industry-leading VideoCore® IV graphics and multimedia subsystem and a rich set of peripheral interfaces. The BCM11311, along with Broadcom MediaxChange™ software, result in a low-power SoCs and software that cater to a variety of markets and applications in the Enterprise and Consumer segments, including high definition IP Video phones and Multimedia Tablets.

Features
Applications

Dual ARM Cortex A9 at 1 GHz
Integrated VideoCore® IV embedded processor
1080p 30 fps video encode and decode
3D Graphics: OpenGL® ES 1.1/2.0 support
TeakLite-III® DSP at 400 MHz
Hardware security
Audio codecs
Low-power 40 nm process

Did i miss something? :?


As long as we are granting wishes, would it be possible to get a version based on the Tegra 2? Also having a MIPS version would be very nice.

Not sure why you would want one based on Tegra 2 (much more expensive and power hungry, although goodish performance), or indeed MIPS (didn't know people still used those!)! And both equally unlikely I am afraid - Nvidia being a direct competitor to Broadcom and MIPS isn't used in many mobile devices.
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obarthelemy
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Re: Wishes for 2nd gen Raspberry Pi

Sun Sep 11, 2011 2:35 pm

MIPS is indeed used in a lot of CS/IT/Electronics schools still. First mover advantage I guess, there were cheap versions of MIPS stuff long before ARM. Also the architecture seems well-suited to a lot of learning.

For people who want a Tegra2, much more I/O, and have a fat wallet, there's http://trimslice.com/web/trim-slice , at $200-300. Puts it outside impulse purchase territory, and more expensive than a basic nettop.

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Re: Wishes for 2nd gen Raspberry Pi

Sun Sep 11, 2011 4:01 pm

Now there you go! For those that want a feature rich, high performance package, that BCM11311 would be an ideal "Big Brother" to the Pi, for developers that want more than a software learning tool.

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Re: Wishes for 2nd gen Raspberry Pi

Sun Sep 11, 2011 4:17 pm

Quote from cmduarte on September 11, 2011, 17:01
Now there you go! For those that want a feature rich, high performance package, that BCM11311 would be an ideal "Big Brother" to the Pi, for developers that want more than a software learning tool.

Indeed! Although you may have to wait a bit - not sure that chip is available yet (although I may be thinking of a completely different chip.. the BRCM chip numbering scheme is beyond the wit of man).

You get a lot of chips announced by all the different manufacturers but they only go in to mass production once there is a customer (you don't make a million chips on the off chance...!). On of the reasons the Raspi is so cheap is that another customer has bought lots of them.
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Re: Wishes for 2nd gen Raspberry Pi

Sun Sep 11, 2011 4:48 pm

Quote from jamesh on September 11, 2011, 15:19
...
Not sure why you would want one based on Tegra 2 (much more expensive and power hungry, although goodish performance), or indeed MIPS (didn't know people still used those!)! And both equally unlikely I am afraid - Nvidia being a direct competitor to Broadcom and MIPS isn't used in many mobile devices.


I'm not trolling, but, in the context of the Raspi foundation's charter, what is the issue with Nvidia being a direct competitor of Broadcom? (Just for the sake of this comment, please assume that all else is equal between NVidia and Broadcomm so we don't need to worry about which offering is better suited.)

Edit: Perhaps I have misread jamesh's comment. If I have, apologies in advance, and clarification welcome.

obarthelemy
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Re: Wishes for 2nd gen Raspberry Pi

Sun Sep 11, 2011 5:02 pm

Basically, Broadcom is offering a very good price on the chips, and a good bit of engineering help, because Raspi have a convincing insider at Broadcom.
No such insider advantage with nVidia, so since the Raspi team is already quite busy with day jobs and the Raspi, prospects are very dim. It's not a charter issue, more of a resources one.

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Re: Wishes for 2nd gen Raspberry Pi

Sun Sep 11, 2011 9:41 pm

Yeah - and we did look at all the available SoCs (the foundation folks aren't as partisan as circumstances make us look) - we went for the Broadcom chip because it was by far the most compelling on cost and power consumption. You've probably seen the multimedia demos; there's not really anything any other foundry could offer us in that direction - the 2835's really pretty shit-hot.

It's an annoyance to me that other groups like ours would have trouble sourcing any SoC at all, for the reasons you guys mention above; having an insider made our development infinitely easier. It shouldn't be this way; it might sound grandiose, but I do hope that what we're trying to do here might loosen things up a bit for smaller developers trying to source parts in the long term.
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Re: Wishes for 2nd gen Raspberry Pi

Sat Sep 24, 2011 7:54 am

I think a flash memory is not very long-lived, so it would be useful to have ability to connect HDD, for example via SATA. But perhaps there is way to do it with an USB external hard drive, but I am not sure about the speed. Perhaps USB 3 will be best solution.

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